Cats - My first time in the rough - what was that?
03-08-2002, 04:07 PM
#41
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UT,
It could have been August, I really don't remember for sure but it was towards the end of last summer. I remember that nobody was running fast and everybody was just trying to get back to the channel. Some of the smaller lake v's that I saw were taking a serious beating and the people were getting soaked. It would have been a could day for some bigger cats or v's.
It could have been August, I really don't remember for sure but it was towards the end of last summer. I remember that nobody was running fast and everybody was just trying to get back to the channel. Some of the smaller lake v's that I saw were taking a serious beating and the people were getting soaked. It would have been a could day for some bigger cats or v's.
03-08-2002, 05:24 PM
#43
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Advantage_Rob...... I agree with you that Cats have "good speeds" and not so good speeds. Generally, the faster you go the smoother the ride as pressure increases and the aerodynamic lift takes over. In an earlier post UT had indicated that his boat peaks out in the low 70's....so he doesn't have much of a "speed up" option at this time, especially with a full load of people. The reason that I am staying away from driving/trimming advice has a lot to do with the engine configuration (2 I/O's) in a small (26 foot) cat.... The boat, at present, appears to be under performing.
My gut feel here, and it is just that, is this boat is, at present, highly compromised...... I.E. Drives too low (prop shaft below the bottom) due to shallow transom dimensions, engines too far back due to size of the overall craft. That having been said , if your boat is well balanced, and it may well be from the ride you are experiencing, it will not necessarily behave like UT's in the same situation.... You may boogey along relatively level over the same wake that sends UT into "moon shot" mode. The most common scenario of "stuffing" occurs following one of these adventures and this is a serious side effect that I'm sure UT would rather avoid. So before we "trim up and hammer down" let's try to fully understand the animal we have captured. UT I strongly suggest that you take Ted up on his generous offer to help you with C/G and C/M calculations. In addition let's get those drives up out of the water with a "shorty" adapter of some kind.
Good luck...I'm outta here!
T2x
My gut feel here, and it is just that, is this boat is, at present, highly compromised...... I.E. Drives too low (prop shaft below the bottom) due to shallow transom dimensions, engines too far back due to size of the overall craft. That having been said , if your boat is well balanced, and it may well be from the ride you are experiencing, it will not necessarily behave like UT's in the same situation.... You may boogey along relatively level over the same wake that sends UT into "moon shot" mode. The most common scenario of "stuffing" occurs following one of these adventures and this is a serious side effect that I'm sure UT would rather avoid. So before we "trim up and hammer down" let's try to fully understand the animal we have captured. UT I strongly suggest that you take Ted up on his generous offer to help you with C/G and C/M calculations. In addition let's get those drives up out of the water with a "shorty" adapter of some kind.
Good luck...I'm outta here!
T2x
03-08-2002, 06:20 PM
#44
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SOOOOO, She weighs 200 ay! Better hope she don't read your post. Just funning ya. Reading replies with great intrest cause I have a project cat I bought and the fuel tanks were moved foward but never tested. Previous owner had similar problem you had. My boat also had standoff boxes and is a twinn engine while most of my brand boats are single.Just watching to see what answers you get.
03-08-2002, 08:02 PM
#45
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U.T..
My cat would do the same thing as yours when I originally bought it, I am probably as unbalanced as you are, 25' Warlock cat with 2 250HP 3.0 litre outboards, these are fishing motors not high performance they weigh a little over 100 pounds more than the 2.5's and when the boat was originally rigged it had 17" of setback(the motors were on Portabrackets). To reduce this problem I rerigged and moved the motors forward 7". You don't have this option but the other thing I did which I did before the engines were moved forward was to build tabs out the back of the tunnels(fixed) that extended the tunnel length, they made a huge difference, before the tabs even at neutral trim the bow would want to find the moon.
With the tabs the boat flew flat even before moving the engines forward.
If you would like I can try to find some pictures of the back of the boat and scan them in for you, I know i don't have any after pictures but I took some before I pulled the engines off to get the transom filled.
I also think that you were probably trimmed up to much for conditions.
Sorry to be so long,
Caleb
My cat would do the same thing as yours when I originally bought it, I am probably as unbalanced as you are, 25' Warlock cat with 2 250HP 3.0 litre outboards, these are fishing motors not high performance they weigh a little over 100 pounds more than the 2.5's and when the boat was originally rigged it had 17" of setback(the motors were on Portabrackets). To reduce this problem I rerigged and moved the motors forward 7". You don't have this option but the other thing I did which I did before the engines were moved forward was to build tabs out the back of the tunnels(fixed) that extended the tunnel length, they made a huge difference, before the tabs even at neutral trim the bow would want to find the moon.
With the tabs the boat flew flat even before moving the engines forward.
If you would like I can try to find some pictures of the back of the boat and scan them in for you, I know i don't have any after pictures but I took some before I pulled the engines off to get the transom filled.
I also think that you were probably trimmed up to much for conditions.
Sorry to be so long,
Caleb
03-09-2002, 09:49 AM
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T2x, thanks for the reply, like most, I really have a hard time disagreeing with anything you say.
UT Sounds like thier is alot of tinkering to do. I'm jealous, it's snowing here!! When I removed my race hatch, and added a back seat to mine I encountered porpoising when I tried it out for the first time out, of course with 3 back seat passengers looking ot go out all day and have a fun day. Well the ride was not fun, or fast due to this, but I later balanced it on a strap hoist, and took it out on a few test runs, and eventually got the desired result. A pain at the time, but now I look back at it as a learning experience, along with the added knowledge of this post and look forward to doing it again some day. have fun be safe!!!
UT Sounds like thier is alot of tinkering to do. I'm jealous, it's snowing here!! When I removed my race hatch, and added a back seat to mine I encountered porpoising when I tried it out for the first time out, of course with 3 back seat passengers looking ot go out all day and have a fun day. Well the ride was not fun, or fast due to this, but I later balanced it on a strap hoist, and took it out on a few test runs, and eventually got the desired result. A pain at the time, but now I look back at it as a learning experience, along with the added knowledge of this post and look forward to doing it again some day. have fun be safe!!!
03-09-2002, 12:25 PM
#47
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Were you running into the wind?
The direction of the boat for the swell direction is important in how you trim a boat at any speed.
You guys tend to forget the center of pressure. I know that this is not what people want to hear but every boat is different and speeds over 40 mph aero is in full effect.
The bigger boats are more forgiving. The lighter boats like the 26 are very critical to cg and trim setting. Find a boat that is set up like yours ask the owner how he runs it and what to look out for. Ask Bob and Brent what they think formost, They will have the best advice. If all else fails back off and cruise.
Good luck.
pat W
The direction of the boat for the swell direction is important in how you trim a boat at any speed.
You guys tend to forget the center of pressure. I know that this is not what people want to hear but every boat is different and speeds over 40 mph aero is in full effect.
The bigger boats are more forgiving. The lighter boats like the 26 are very critical to cg and trim setting. Find a boat that is set up like yours ask the owner how he runs it and what to look out for. Ask Bob and Brent what they think formost, They will have the best advice. If all else fails back off and cruise.
Good luck.
pat W
03-09-2002, 05:13 PM
#48
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Cat 's
I'll try to explain what I know and maybe it will help.Being a old Throttleman of a 25 Motion with twin OB's when running in the rough the throttle is your main trim,motor angle is more or less set and changes depending or wind and or wave direction and size.Different boats my have variables but the Cats have a constant in the way they are ran in rough water.
When you hit a wave you power tthe sponson's though the wave then chopping the power to throw the enercia forward so the boat will stay at a just above level trim.To maintian speed every wave must be handled depending on where you land on it.The CG becomes the control of the person throttleing and trimming the boat.If you land in front of a wave you increase throttle to keep trim,land on top you would maintian to keep speed constant and on to the next wave,landing ontop with CG beyond the wave would need fullthottle to keep the boat trim correct for the next landing.They come fast and there is little room fo error if you are wanting to be fast.Foot throttles don't respond fast enough and landings are hard to deal with consistantly.In a 2to4'sea I would throttle over 1000 times in 77+ miles,your hand goes numb by the 3rd lap and comes back about the 5th.If you watch a offshore race and see a Cat stuff it is the throttlemans fault barring driver or mechanical failier which would be rare.To run a Cat at speed takes alot of practice,to read the waves and perfect the timing.
1991 Sarasota Fl. C-98 Full Throttle 1st place class/4th overall,79miles in 56 min's. race avg. 88.24mph (good water)
New Symyrna Beach Fl. 77 miles,2to4+seas 1st in class/1st overall,race avg.72.61 mph,ahead of the Hooters 32'skater by almost a minute.
One hand on the Throttle and one on the Trim,Bring it to the line and let the Rat Killin Begin!
Have a nice day, Lonnie
We have since down sized
When you hit a wave you power tthe sponson's though the wave then chopping the power to throw the enercia forward so the boat will stay at a just above level trim.To maintian speed every wave must be handled depending on where you land on it.The CG becomes the control of the person throttleing and trimming the boat.If you land in front of a wave you increase throttle to keep trim,land on top you would maintian to keep speed constant and on to the next wave,landing ontop with CG beyond the wave would need fullthottle to keep the boat trim correct for the next landing.They come fast and there is little room fo error if you are wanting to be fast.Foot throttles don't respond fast enough and landings are hard to deal with consistantly.In a 2to4'sea I would throttle over 1000 times in 77+ miles,your hand goes numb by the 3rd lap and comes back about the 5th.If you watch a offshore race and see a Cat stuff it is the throttlemans fault barring driver or mechanical failier which would be rare.To run a Cat at speed takes alot of practice,to read the waves and perfect the timing.
1991 Sarasota Fl. C-98 Full Throttle 1st place class/4th overall,79miles in 56 min's. race avg. 88.24mph (good water)
New Symyrna Beach Fl. 77 miles,2to4+seas 1st in class/1st overall,race avg.72.61 mph,ahead of the Hooters 32'skater by almost a minute.
One hand on the Throttle and one on the Trim,Bring it to the line and let the Rat Killin Begin!
Have a nice day, Lonnie
We have since down sized
03-09-2002, 05:55 PM
#49
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UT............... Earlier today I sat with Doug Lewis and the subject of your boat came up. I took him through this thread as best I could from memory, and included all the variables. His conclusion is the best one offered so far...................
Keep the 200 lb woman in the front...................
T2x
Keep the 200 lb woman in the front...................
T2x
03-12-2002, 03:54 PM
#50
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One more thing.....just to totally complicate the thread........ I'm not sure this boat qualifies as a "cat" but rather a "tri" since, I believe...and will stand corrected, if I'm wrong..... This hull has a center pod (kind of a constant "down" tunnel tab)..... making all the cat comparisons moot.
T2x
T2x
