sunseeker xs2000
 

hi,just wondered if anyone runs a sunseeker xs2000 in the us.

I think I have only seen one and here in the US they were extremely expensive new for what you got.

Plus in my opinion, and this is just my opinion they are frighteningly ugly.




http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/da...2000-sport.jpg

http://www.sunseeker.de/images/news/XS2000_3.jpg

The Sunseeker XS 2000 is a Sunseeker deck and fitted out Buzzi hull

FB 38' SUNRACER

http://fbdesign.it/img/suna.jpg

http://fbdesign.it/a38sun.php

Herb Chambers in Lyme CT had one that I saw in person and for the record it was ugly. He ended up buying an outerlimits with 1075's

xs
 

cheers i just wondered,i like the look but the main reason is there cheep on fuel whith the diesel yanmars and if you wind em up to 500hp a side it runs around 85mph

below the rub rail a thing of beauty, above the rub rail, I'll use the old line a "2 bagger". One bag for her face another for mine in case her bag falls off!!

xs
 

maybe a bit fugly on top but i used to it ,they obviously were more popular in europe

Get rid of the bow rail would go a long way in cleaning up the look.

Agreed - the bow rail kills it for me as well.

I have to ask what type of boat is this - is it a yacht tender, a center console with a cuddy cabin or a performance boat??? I could never understand the deck layout from the first time I saw it. I always loved what the boat could do and think it's great but I just don't get who or what the boat was designed to do?

Joe Gere

Over here I´ve never seen one...and I can see why.
Actually if it had a cabin and a upper deck like a MasMar33 sans the wing on the MasMar it would be a success and you´d prolly see those strolling around even today like I did see one MasMar33 today...
Well a fast boat with cabin heat is darn comfy even Wintertime as our waters seldom nowadays freezes up.

Regarding sunseekers there quite few.
Personally I have been seen lately behind the wheel of a 48 Superhawk.

http://www.powerboatp1.com/teams/sup...eker/team.aspx

looks much better here

That version of the boat looks good - even under water! LOL:eek:

so true...

http://www.powerboatp1.com/teams/4/t...y/image/5.aspx

joe you beat me to it as I tried to link the pic....

xs
 

you get two types the open one like a kind of fish and ski style and the other like mine with the sliding hatch ,under it there is a seating area and a v berth up front,we have stripped it out for racing as in the u.k long distance racing is becoming popular and although not that fast they can maintain a good percentage of there top speed.the hull is buzzi and the deck more sunseeker.but i do agree the rails may have to go. www.team25racing.com

the specs are great --althought I´m not that much of a Yanmar fan.

http://www.team25racing.com/_wp_gene...wp9d8717a1.png

xs
 

yanmar power to weight is good but if i had an open cheque book i would be running v8 petrol,our petrol prices are not good and neither is diesel but they are economical.in the same yard as me theres a 42 fountain poker run with 525,s and a 388 hustler whith the same yanmars both very different but both very good

It look like my old 38 Buzzi agreed, if so they put in a pair of C series Cummins 600 hp and gear them at .73 and she'll make 90 plus with ease!!

xs
 

have you any photo,s of your 38 buzzi

I'm not at my computer but there are some on here already, tomorrow when I get home I scan some more. I get you stuff you want to look at!

We brought EBEL from Buzzi and raced her as Super hero and later Super Hiawaii. My notes are all on here somewhere?

Joe Gere

xs
 

i saw ebel race many times and always liked it,the xs is new to me and im just hoping its good we as a team have been working hard for a while now rebuilding it for the first race in feb.did you run the 2speed zf boxes and trimax drives on ebel.would love to see some pictures.cheers scott

and here´s two guys both with 2008 Nor Tech Cats..the other is with 2X700´s and the other is getting as we speak 2X1200 Mercs...

xs
 

theres a few nice cats over here but not realy any classes to race them in anymore here,another boat at the same yard is a teckno 40 buzzi rib with 2x seateks its not pretty kinda looks like a propper smuggling boat yet some how you just have to love it

The XS I always thought looked a bit fugley but your racing version Scott is the best looking one I've seen, looks a bit like the one that set a few endurance records around Europe some years back maybe the same boat? think when Buzzi set about designing it he wanted a day boat for the med that could entertain plenty on board in the sun and that it does

this one I think is the really really ugly version
http://fbdesign.it/img/bb38.jpg

Pics from Littlenige's Offshore Library Boatmad.com

and this is Joe showing us Europeans how it's done in Ebel a much better looking version although it may not be quite as practical as a day boat/sun pad
http://media.boatmad.com/gallery/d/1388-3/Ebel.jpg

http://media.boatmad.com/gallery/d/1...Ebel+Poole.jpg

OK, show time, a little history lesson or two here.

First here are 2 letters to Kitami and Andrea Bonomi (Carlo's son) about where we should be heading with some engine developement outside of Seatek. Simple reasoning here, we could make marinized truck diesels much cheaper than using the Seatek's which are low volume engines with no basic parts available anywhere in the world except the Seatek plant.

Look at the 2 addresses for what I call Super Hero still Morgan, NJ and HI. Keep in mind these letters are 19 years old and almost everything in there still holds ture today execept for the UIM rules which have changed.

This is why I keep saying on here that this stuff was done soooo many years ago and just because a boat builder today doesn't do it, won't try it or says it won't work just means to me - they have other reasons why they don't want to do it!!!!

The 3rd picture is Super Hero (EBEL) running off Miami in 1990 - now that's the way a rooster tail should look - low and long not high and short!!!!

You will see two different tails in the picture, that is the for each prop as we are running beam sea so as she rolls from side to side each prop is getting a different bite.

Next,

1st pic - is two of the old small cui Seateks stuffed in EBEL, there were 600hp in their best day (LOL) and with a .83 or .85 OD the boat ran 92 mph all day long if the chine walk didn't kill you first. Someone asked about 2 speeds being on these boats, there were no such things as 2 speeds at that time. We were playing with that stuff and it worked in development boats but no production versions had been made.

2nd picture - is the old pre-trimax drives, these were Buzzi drives and they were the best, except like like rudder steer drives they don't turn. It was impossible to turn this boat without using the engines. We also never ran hydraulic steering until later on, it was a dual rack and pinion cable set-up. I agree with Buzzi on this 100%, he was right, you never to feel and steer the boat, can't do that with hydraulic. This also made it vert hard to spin out the boat as you just weren't strong enough to turn the wheel that far that fast!!!

Another thing you'll notice is the trim tabs, they are extra long and have a angled rear section. Also note how high on the hull they are mounted. Simple reason, you could run a little tab to control chine walk and not drag the whole tab just the last few inches and that gave you stability.

ps yes the early drives have no trim at all, it was locked in place and stayed there.

3dr pic - this tells the whole story on why diesels in the US went NO WHERE!!!!! On a chilly day you needed a can of ether each to start those Seateks and the smoke was choking!!!!! Even on a warm day they started with a cloud, much smaller but a gas engine has zero smoke. You all know how un-burned diesel smells as well. This killed diesels more than anything. I can't tell you how many times the Fire Dept came to our shop in Morgan, NJ. On a cold day we called them first to let them know we were starting a "race boat".

Also, in the picture for you historians that want to see the Buzzi 4 engine cat, she's in the foreground. Look how low she sits and water is actually over the boat in the center section. o you see all the watertight deck access plates??? That's so when she idled and the wake/wash rolled all up on the deck and when it went to get up on plane the water did sink the boat because the back of that boat was cover with water!!!!!

Enjoy,
Joe Gere

The text on them old papers seems reasonable....
And the pics..keep them coming.

xs
 

thanks for the pics and info,very interesting.is the ebel hull the same as my xs

Great pics ,love those old raceboat/diesel info too,Joe did they use the Isotta Fraschini ID 38 SS 6V twin turbo diesel engines back then in the US ?
I have one of these sitting on a pallet ,and like to crank her up to 800+ HP and put her in a 28 ft boat and see what happens .
On an old video from Apache I saw an engine room with 3 of these Isotta,s ,but I could never find any more info about that boat...

A.J

scotty - EBEL was like yours but not the same from what I can see, I'm sure yours was born from it though?

stirling - there were lots of Isottas back then racing and the French engines as well, blue and yellow were the company colrs, I think it was like Boud??????

Pleasure versions of Isottas, I've seen them here not many, I believe Johnson & Towers here in NJ had a deal to import them? I know there was a 38 Luhrs express fisherman built with them as a test bed. I beleive it ran like hell but I thought it really drank fuel also. Plus people buy Detroit Diesel for anything in a fishboat above the 3208 in HP. (years ago)

The engines you mentioned from France are Boudoin ,there was a 50 ft French Marine powerboat here with Arnesons and V12 twin turbo Boudoins ,I don,t no about horsepower,but those V12,s looked mean as hell.

The Isotta ID 38,s are 450 hp in pleasure,just like mine ,A guy in the UK that had raced with a CUV with those ID 38,s said he had them up to 850 hp back then in 1988,without internal engine mods ,he said bigger turbo,s pump settings, injectors(tips) and a few minor other things....
The ID 38 is around 720 kilo (1500 lbs) and turns 3150 rpm,s max, 9,7 litre V6 and the air flows reverse thru the engine ,the exhaust runs where normally the intake sits and the intake air comes in where normaly the exhaust is.
each turbo has its own intercooler (water to air)
Although the engines are old (1986) I still like to use it someday

Oh I forgot ,the engine uses 180 litre /hour at 850 hp according the info they gave me .

Cats take half of that nowadays with same power on cruise thou not WOT, have to check that but can´t be IMO that far off.

At cruise I dont no how much for the Isotta ,but think a lot

more or less...we blueprinted a couple and got from 700 to almost 1000 just by portmatching and pocket porting plus some boost upgrades.
offcourse at cruise you don´t use 850...

As you say Joe the Buzzi 4 engine cat was almost under water before she got going

from what I recall the Buzzi cat ran in the keys around late 80's and I think took the wins however on the last race the cat sponsons started coming apart with a gap appearing however Buzzi kept the boat flying to take the flag or so I seem to remember and I don't think it's ever reappeared since then

Again Littlenige Boatmad.com photo
http://media.boatmad.com/gallery/d/1099-1/CESA+1882.jpg


I always thought obviously wrongly the Isotta's were 11.4ltr engines not 9.7ltr

it was 1989!!!!

The boat was sinking at the dock afterwards and they tied it up from the pilings to keep it afloat. If I recall that didn't work as planned!!!

And yes I think that was the last time that boat was seen? It really never ran that well. After Stefano was killed in the old pink/green/blue Kappa boat that was the end for Buzzi and cats. That was a PR nightmare that also took Buzzi down as well, he did recover with a revenge. People on here I think don't give him the credit he is due sometimes. As far a boat racer/boat designer/boat builder/engine-drive designer builder he has no equal. Granted many of his ideas are not 100% his and he's taken lots of existing products and modified them and he's had his share of flops but all in all his race boats are one of a kind with more hand made one-off parts than you can imagine. He's very creative, he did it his way!

IMHO - Aronow, Kramer, Fountain, etc did/do not the breath of scope that Buzzi had in his prime for all things offshore race boat. I'm sure this will draw a few comments!!!

Joe Gere

not my cup of tea,

Wow great memory Joe, your probably right on all counts on his achievements during his very active racing career, although he does have great credibility in Europe and going by what some of the boatmad UK guys say that just recently had a chat and a factory tour you can see he strives to be the best at what he wants and does
I guess that perhaps early on he realised the US of A although the worlds largest pleasure market was a hard nut to crack especially as it was diesel he wanted to crack it in and with gas having been so cheap it was never going to be an easy sale for his boats although he did get involved in projects besides Sunseeker with Fountain in the US making a Buzzi designed single engine gas or diesel boat for teams
http://www.world-of-powerboat.de/pro...-welmax-15.jpg

Buzzi seems to have concentrated and gone after the Military patrol boat market which his boats are ideally suited too

http://fbdesign.it/img/RIB42-5.jpg

actually I think the Europeans may have been onto something with the diesel engines being developed for Le mans racing but I believe the rules have been tightened up against diesel to make it less attractive for manufacturers in diesel development, although Audi have over the 90's and 2000's been heavily into performance diesel engines and who knows what they have up their sleeve for the future

:drink: Hi Scott - good luck with the team for next season! And Merry Christmas!

aquafun,

You know why Buzzi went the miliatry route, his boats, the Seateks are all low volume items with big ticket prices. No secret the Governments can afford them and he has plenty of connections, it makes sense.

As far as the US goes, here the reality fo it from someone who tried to crack that market for years as well. In the 80's race boats in the US were all about the glitz, chrome valve covers, polished headers, red velocity stacks on fuel injectors, etc, etc. Everything about the US Open class boats was clean and shiney!!!! Here come the Europeans with their not so shiney trucks, engine rooms that were not so sterile, engines that leaked oil & smoked, oh I forgot and left a stoot trail in the water for miles!!!!!

Despite the fact that these ran like hell and finished races they just didn't look nor sound Amercian - Buzzi was doomed over here before the boats got off the boat!!!

It does seem like (your LeMans refernce) every tme diesels start to get some kind of winning streak going they change the rules on them????

Joe Gere

Not mine either but I give credit for all his efforts.