lets see the diesel boats
 

there are tons of pics of gas boats on here
now lets take a look at the diesels

I need to keep this alive, I'll send pictures to night.

Kinda like this one !! :)

Bob

wow! its amazing how different the paint looks between the first and third pic!

The 3rd pic has our LEVERAGE POLISH on it...LOL:D

In pic 3 Jay, somehow "enhances" some of his pics. Not sure how he does it but they really come alive. In pic 1, I think Jeff was fighting the sun a bit. The true color of PREDATOR is somewhere between the two pics.
Bob

beautiful boat!!!

:ernaehrung004:

You call it "enhancing", I call it "post-production". :D

Some factors that can affect a photo like this:
position of the sun relative to the boat and presence/absence of clouds
camera characteristics/settings, especially white balance and saturation
use of a polarizing filter

I like vivid color in my pictures. Nikon has won worldwide acclaim with it's latest generation of color sensors that were introduced with the D3 and D300. I've been amazed at it's color capabilities and what it does with in-camera processing. As I become more familiar with how to utilize it's power, I find that I am spending much less time with photoshop to get the look I want. The pix from the FMO Turkey Run had no color or saturation adjustments done before publishing. :cool-smiley-026:

hijack over- back to the diesels!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3033/...8dbc71dcbc.jpg

Here's the Monza
 

24' Monza, 7.3L (PC) Navistar diesel, roughly 320 Hp continuious. This was a turbo charged 7.3 long before they had ever made them for trucks. 1:1 gear anywhere from 62-67 mph depending on prop and conditions.

The boat started life with a 6.9L NA Navistar diesel that spun about 4,700 RPMs and made about 265 Hp, 1.33 gear

Funny thing the additional Hp made almost no difference in speed. This as I repeat many times was when we still believed you needed a BIG prop and that would compenstate for lack of RPMs.

I'll post more later, off to exercise for now, got to stay the course!!!!

Here is another diesel boat.

Maelstrom 23
 

Here is my favorite of all time, this boat is great for it's size. It the Maelstrom 23 with a 7.3L (PC) Navistar Turbo diesel, again these were still not available in trucks. This engine made 365 Hp continious, the boat could run high 70's all day. We ran against Gulfwind with their kilo record holding Velocity 22 (83 pgh?) one snotty day in Sarsota bay testing props. The prop was way to big, could hardly trun it and when we turned into the wing Gulfwind just got some air under her and took off. Ron Hicks and I looked at each other and said give it hell. The Maelstrom just enough air, rose up and that big 17.5 X 31 clever started spinning and walked by Gulfwind so fast he was stutttering worse than me back at the dock. Our speedo was getting so much air we were reading like 50 mph, Gulfwind was 80-81 on his and we just walked by!!!!

That is EBEL / Super Hero in front of us at the fuel dock - notice the green DIESEL label on the pump. The sponsons behind us with the orange tips was the 4 engine cat of Buzzi that was painted up with Popeyes. You know us diesel people have to stick togethr (LOL)!!!!

Our tow rig, not bad for A class in the 80's, spare engine, cut away 7.3L diesel for display, spare drive, headers, etc! I think we were pretty cool for our time. One of only 6 slant nose S-series Navistar trucks on the planet.

Joe I would love to get my hands on one of the Maelstrom hulls.

Diesel outboard ? How much Hp, weight?

Joe ,what propulsion did you use on the Maelstrom ?
And have you any idea about weight for the Navistar engine ?

A.J

Memory lane
 

Joe,
Ya got any good pics of Gancia?:drink:

These were our 7.3L that we made in the 80's, they weighted 1090 lbs raw water cooled. They had a plate on them for BW trannies, so they could plug into a TRS drive. Remember no such thing as a Bravo back then just an Alpha.

Joe Gere

that was one hell of a diesel back then and lightweight too

It was and we still couldn't sell enough to it keep going as a viable project. We did things for money, not glory, can't pay out $ wise move on.

That's why I say on here what I say when it comes to Buck or some of the others. The product does not sell itself, it is the overall cost. These were cheap engines, roughly $7,500 retail. But compared to a Merc 330 or similar if you blew one of them you could get a new one for under $3,000.

Do the math, the boat comes new with a Merc, it lasts 4 years and 1,000 hrs and fails, you put in another one BRAND NEW for $3,500 installed and don't have to touch anything else on the boat. You can do that twice so that means the boat goes for 12 years and 3,000 hrs and you still haven't equaled the price of the diesel let alone all the ancillary dollars to convert to diesel.

The economics didn't work then and don't work today if you want equal performance gas:diesel.

Hold on to your hats!!!
 

Unless you were in the inner circles of Cummins Marine back in the late 80's you would not even know this existed!!!

Yep, 400 hp Cummins B's made by me through Cummins in the 80's. This is how my whole involvement with Kitami, Buzzi & Bonomi started. I've said in the past we had a product that could be the smaller Seatek and give Seatek a fuller range of product.

Kitami and I made a deal for AMT which is how I got equity in Super Hero and ran the racing/diesel divisons. After that deal became know Cummins had a sh*t fit and were tolerant of it for about a year and then that is how I was the only person in the modern history of Cummins Engine Co to ever be out on a black list.

Meaning every distributor in the US recieved a personal letter form the Chairman do not sell Joe Gere engines and to please advise him personally if anyone starts buying large qty's of Cummins Marine engines who had not been a piror customer. Needless to say they were ways around that too!!!

The Maelstrom pic is her with a 400hp B in the transom, notice how low it sat. A couple hundred pounds more than a 7.3L makes a difference, that was 1990. This is when, like I point out to Jassman we found out it truely is not prop but prop speed. I could turn an 18x33 4 blade with that boat and not go more than 80???? Change gears, trun a 15.5 x 24 fast and I went 90's. I took what buzzi taught me from the race boats and applied it American style and good damm it works even with an outdrive. It wasn't the Tri-Max drives that made his boats fast, it was prop speed.

More later!!!

just when you mention it joe
do i really need a 17 dia on a 27ft vhull single diesel with surface drive

My opinion for what it's worth is use your own powers of deduction from what I tell you.

If you had 1 350 hp outboard engine on the same boat, what dia prop would you use? Also that prop would be a thru-hub style prop that doesn't have full blades like an Arenson prop would so it's small in area. How many rpm's of prop speed would that outboard have?

You answer those and you tell me why you need a BIG 17" dia prop on your boat?

hi rpm small blade low rpm big blade
you woulden know anyone who has a 17 23/24 4 blade lying around i have ordered a new hering but wont have untill late may early june

What pump & settings were ya using? Also did ya shim up the injectors a little?:drink:

29Firefox,

Nipendenso's, I have to try and find what they flowed at, may have that somewhere???

Injectors - no shims, here is what we found with shims, the higher the pressure you cut the time (chronogical) that the injector has to deliver fuel. By doing that you retard the timing a little as well so if you advance the timing to compensate they you end injection too early.

The higher pressures put load on the pump cam as well. The inline pumps didn't bother them much but the rotatry would push the head to side and score the barrel. Those couldn't run anything above stock and we lower some injectors to make less head pressure on the Standadyne's

I understand fully the thought behind higher pressure better atomization but every impedance will cut flow and you deleiver less fuel reagrdlesss of pump settings. The stock injectors worked well and never burned one up?

40 Hustler and a 50 with yanmars:cool-smiley-011:

Your right on the money if you're just shimming. But....... with a mechanical injector we used to mess with with higher flow nozzles so we could get the right amount of fuel in the shorter flow time. That way you can get the fuel all in at the best burn timing. But now days the ECM does the whole deal. However higher flow nozzles still work better for high output engines. The ECM will adjust so the injectors get beat up less.:drink:

Here is another Yanmar powered Nor Tech. Adib Mastry's beautiful 39 Vee. 85 MPH with 2 X 480 hp. :)

Few more pics from 2008 Miami Boat Show .

that is somethin else
really really nice

well Joe, I have to tell you a funny story.... you weren't by yourself on the blacklist,,, follow along here.. :)

fall of '89 I was quietly seeking a pair of 6BTA 250's for the first 35 Contender built, which was mine, Cummins Marine in Fla refused to sell me engines as they were just released, and the factory had a deal with Boston Whaler and Blackfin for the first 4 engines for the upcoming Miami Show.... Contender wanted the boat in the show and I was real tight with Joe Neber at the time... so I went to Cummins Cumberland, since I was born in Louisville, and had DIRECT family connections there.... got 2 engines for cash and brought them to Miami myself, had them installed and the boat running the week before the show... no testing time using the ZF 1.23 gears, so we were propped wrong.... luck have it we were 2 slips over from Whaler and BlackFin on the front bulkhead wall of the Marriott, I had Cummins banners on the dock posts.... boy were they pissed when they showed up, and they walked right on the boat and demanded to see the serial numbers.... I had removed the data plates from both front gear housings ahead of time, turned the Lucas governors to 3200 rpm full load and turned the fuel up to 140cc from 127cc they came with (Lucas pumps didn't like that) frickin boat ran 47 mph on the governor's and we were still short by 5" of pitch using 22's instead of the needed 27's.... for 5 days straight we would wait until they left the docks and I would run right by them WOT giving demo rides, I know we took some sales from them.... I ended up selling the boat for cash at that show because of that... every night they took down the banners we had, and every day we put up new banners we had as extra's... Cummins went berserk when I told them I paid for the engines and I felt I could damn well do as I pleased with them, which I did, the head guy from Rocky Mount threatened a cease and desist order right on the dock, but it was a weekend... they couldn't do squat... They were LIVID... The Blackfin peep's were cool but the Whaler people were off the wall pissed off... couple weeks later and after about 60 hours the pumps started to loose the cam rings and rollers and spit metal into the Lucas injectors ( I did NOT shim the injectors ) so I took DB4 Standyne pumps for a John Deere (think 436DT tractor pull engines) and used Bosch injectors and aneroid boxes and mounted them using the same fuel lines as a 6BT industrial engine, reshimmed the rotor shoe scroll leafs for more pumping plunger travel, and modified the drive gear opening, same housing pilot and bolt circle right? :).... the engines ran perfectly, and made even more power, especially when I went to .005-.010 valve lash instead of .010-.020.... Cummins then got word and got nice with me, and I built them 4 test mule DB4 experimental Stanadyne pumps and shipped them to Rocky Mount for testing in late 1990, Stanadyne was courting their business at the time, heard what I was doing, so I helped that along with Stanadyne factory support, the engines ran 2,000 non-stop dyno hours perfectly.... Cummins was beside themselves, as they made 295-300hp with the Standyne pumps I built... shortly after, in 1991, they came out with the Denso EP11 and EP9 retrofit kit instead, killed the Lucas marine program, and started using the controlled fuel 7mm injectors with the DB4 Standyne pumps on AG and industrial engines... my stock 250's were about 290hp at the 140cc settings and 270-275 at the 127cc settings, Cummins then lowered the settings to 112cc-115cc to make the Lucas pumps live until they were out of warranty and they only made 210hp continouus... I could do all this because I was a factory authorized Lucas-Bosch-Standyne-Denso fuel shop at the time and still am.. not that I know anything about diesel fuel systems;) ... I also have a 3306 CAT re-rate/engineering funny story, but we'll save that for another time..

and there you have the rest of the story... :) :)

OH the joys of Cummins!!!

You had to know Jim Shipp then or meet him at the show? After running the Marine Group they set him up as the Distributor Principle at Cummins Metropower. He just finished his 15 years there (seems like yesterday) and Metro now merged with Philly all the way up to Boston. It's funny, Cummins was company stores, then all private and now they are going to super distributors with so little equity they are like the managers of the old company stores.

Did you ever meet Karl Kunner (last name maybe spelled a little off)? Everyone always joked he had to have been a U-boat commander in a past life.

DB pumps are great pumps, we used the 8's on the 6.9 and 7.3 as you know.

Aneroid, wow must be close to 29 years since I heard anyone esle use that phrase - you must be an old bastard like ME!!! I remember early engines where they were mounted external to the fuel pump!!!

I get a kick out of your remarks about 1.23 gears and 47 mph. With the extra pitch you could break 50 mph, take it to direct drive and you 70's - the math plays out. Still don't know why people on here question that to go fast with diesels you need prop speed just like any gas boat would.

Let's hope I make some money soon and build another boat!!!

old school with new diesel power
 

here a few photo s of my 32 hustler where we put last night the second engine (cmd qsd 4.2 320hp) in .

more pics
 

another 3

bor,

Did you buy that boat used from over here in the states?

very cool...tell us more.

Why not the bigger puppy?
 

Why only the 320hp model? The inboard model of that engine is available with an extra 30 hp!

bor,

Your boat have a purple interior and a 6-pak cockpit, I swear I've seen that boat here in NJ at the Atlantic Highlands?

Adib's boat it sweet. Ofcourse it helps that he takes great care of it. We just tested a set of the long skeg arneson's on it, but the boat didn't seem to like them. he should have some new props to try here soon, so I quess we shall see how it runs.

Does it have multispeed transmissions?