what about the sutphin 30 and 31 thats a real monster crusher I have been on a few old and new the 31 with 420s would do 74 and 500s around 85. they have a nice cabin room in the cockpit and fast will cut throught rough water nice with the 26 degree hull. can't wait to see the new 27 footer. theres a 26 with twins in the classifieds.

Nor me, that knocked it out of the running when I looked at 28s.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think everything I'm hearing is confirming what I thought.

However, it looks like insurance may just kill my Cig desires, as I haven't gotten any reasonable quotes for a Bullet yet (even with under 1000 HP total) as they are all older. Anything over 20 years appears impossible, and over 15 expensive.:mad:

So that pushes me towards some of the other choices. There are a ton of boats that I'd be intersted in if I found the right one at the right price, but they'd have to be newer. The only boats I'm interested that are old are Bullets, and they're being eliminated by insurance for me.

I also like Formula 292's and have seen some great deals on ones with the 6.2's. If they had something that pushed them over 70 and were a great deal that'd be something I'd be more serious about.

I guess my priorities are
-Solid boat/Turnkey
-Room/comfort as I don't want to leave people behind if I don't have to.
-Speed over 70 but under 80 (for insurance)
-Handle rough stuff

So, it sounds like the AT 28 (or 32 if a deal) would be towards the top of the list. However, the choices are slim for these so I'll just keep looking for ther right deal, as I don't plan on buying until it gets at least close to warm here in Detroit.:eek:

Cgarret, no, I never worked at KCK. I actually moved to Detroit to start with Ford a few years ago.

Which has more freeboard a 28' Panterar or 28' Powerplay? Is the build quality and the rigging, similar quality as well?

Thanks

rlj676,
I have a 99 AT28 w/twin 350magMPI's-B1's,400hrs....MANY options. In fact, some of the most custom features make it a very rare boat. e-mail me @ [email protected] & I'll send u pics. I am struggling financially(homebuilder&GC-NO WORKY!) If we can agree on pricing, you might be a VERY lucky guy!

Never actually been in a PP, but looking at pics the freeboard is very close. PP rigging is also known to be very good.

I have been down this street a few times owend 2 28' singles and finally bought a 32' Sunsation. I really like this boat, was considering all the boats mentioned above, time was never right on the ones I found. I ended up staying away from Cig because on insurance and I thought an older boat might nickle and dime me to death, maybe maybe not. Feel free to PM me your number if you would like more info on the 32' Sunny or anything else, I am on my 4th boat in 6 years.

O and few more things I had a ZT280 and Nordic Heat 28'. The 28AT and the 28 Sunny are hands down a better rough water boat, been in both boats! Sydwayz is a good source for info on the AT's. Call the Sunny factory and talk to Chris tell him I sent ya, there customer service is second to none! I am sure they could set you up with a ride!

What's freeboard?:confused:

I HOPE YOU ARE ON THE PHONE!:ernaehrung004:

Technically, its the measured height of the gunwale (top/side of the boat) to the water line.

However, most people associate it with the cockpit depth measured from the top of the gunwale, (top/side of the boat) down to the cockpit floor.

When people say a boat has a low freeboard, you will often feel "on" the boat.

When people say a boat has a high/deep/tall freeboard, you will often feel "in" the boat; lending to a more secure ride/feel.

Email sent.:D

Thanks. Sorry to hear work is slow, hope it picks up.

Thanks for the advice.

I haven't ruled out the Sunny's, I would be up for one if the deal was right. Size wise, like total passenger space, how does the 28 AT compare to the 32 Sunny?

I've also been looking at 32 Hustlers as they seem like a good option as well. What does everyone think of them? Seems like a later 90's one could be had for a decent deal and still be insurable and hopefully "turnkey".

Thanks for the link, but that is as old as the Bullet I want, so same insurance problems but 3 less feet.:D

FYI. My buddy insures this boat for under $400 a year.

I'm not sure why, but I learned that for some reason Insurance companies don't like "Cigarette". Most wouldn't even concider it and finally found insurance with progressive. Paying through the A$$, but it's insured and will shop again in the spring.

I am finding it is the 20 year mark that is the problem really. The "Cig" name seems to make it more too, but not as much as the age.

Also, he probably started insuring it before it was over 20 years, so now it is grandfathered in.

IC. Interesting.... He did insure it b4 it was 20.

Cgarrett, I know your old boat very well, Preston is a great guy. I think one of the motors finally let go last summer, not sure what he is doing but he really needs to upgrade with Trip 300's, that would be sweet. The boat is in great condition, renamed it Pole Position.

Nobody has mentioned them yet, but they fit the size range and come with twins in your price range... The Baja 29 and 33 Outlaws.. I know everyone likes to knock them cause they are a "production" boat but they are affordable and offer alot of what you are looking for. Ive been on both and the 33 defiantely has some nice room. The 29 is a lil tighter, the bed was too small for my likes. But both boats have good headroom in the cuddy and the 33 has a huge cockpit. By the way, Im 6' 224lbs.

Pretty close for room in the cockpit, cabin room goes to the Sunny.

rjl676 -

Got the perfect boat for ya and its local too (see avatar). shoot me an email with your # and we can chat. The boat is in storage in harrison twp. I didn't expect to sell but I just moved up to a new boat and will be looking to move this spring (or sooner). I'd like to finish it as it has been a long project for me and when you get this far you want to see it thru. If you are interested I can finish to your request as well - rear seat config, colors, graphics (painted all white in '06 and in storage since). heck I'll even build a mild motor if you prefer. All the best - 489 tall deck with worked brodix heads, t&d rockers, etc, IMCO extension box, marine machine steering, Lonseal flooring, highback bolsters, full Livorsi Monster guages, aluminum tri-axle, etc, etc.

[email protected]

NEIL

Suprised no one has mentioned the 28 apache. Bigger engine bay than the AT, about the same freeboard. Same size cabin, only the AT has an eclosed head, so the apache is much more roomier.

My short list when shopping was 28 pantera, saber, apache. Found a deal on an apache and never looked back. Most are old and outdated or in need of repair, but if you could find a newer model it would be an easy decision. I liked the bullet, just too big and heavy. By the time I bought a bigger truck and kept up with the maintenance I might as well of boughten a 35 cafe or 38 top gun.

Take it for what its worth, every member here is going to think his boat is the best..........naturally, or they wouldn't have bought it.

You're right, it is funny how when you ask about a few specific boats, eveyone chimes in with their brand.:party-smiley-004: J/K, as it does help surface some things you may not have looked at. However, I've been looking/narrowing it down for over 3 years (it is no coincidence all the ones I'm looking at get "approval").:drink:

If I found a newer Apache I'd be interested maybe, but for the most part they are too old to insure/finance easily, same problem as the Bullet. I think I'm going to stick to 15 years old or newer if possible. Really the only thing older I'm interested in is a Cig.

I don't actually know much about Phantom. Are they typically more "race boat" style? Does it have a usable cabin, or is it a sit down boat?

It would be cool to have some control of the finish and paint, but I need some space for a crowd bigger than 5 sometimes.

Thanks.

As I alluded to earlier, I'm looking for turnkey and decent room for multiple people, and speeds of 70-79.

This looked nice. http://www.teamshogren.com/pre-owned...-velocity.html

Actually Will Smith is one of the best out there. Yes all of his current models are the sit-down, minimal cabin, built for speed "speedster" varieties. But back in the mid-late '90s Will was building a pleasure version (although some were raced) 29 footer. Think classic 27' magum streched a couple feet and classic flat deck but with his fairing. Personally I love the lines of the boat and get a TON of compliments but as you see here everyone has their own favorite.

I was actually looking for a 28 Apache when I stumbled onto this one. Once i saw it and found out how few were made I had to have it. Why put time and effort just to have the same as someone else is what I figured.

I was thinking of running this boat in class 5 so I hadn't bothered with the back seat. I am planning on having it built before spring and will likely mimic the Pantera seat. Seating for 3 across the back is not a problem, 4 likely. Same for the hatch - it is lightweight aluminum that I plan to either install a scoop or have covered flat. The cabin is typical of a 29' vee. Two facing couches and good size v-berth upfront. Plenty comfortable for the moot.

The power may be a bit much but we could work out a lower hp motor if you are interested. I have nice parts to finish another motor build.

No pressure as I really haven't even listed it yet but seemed like a perfect match for ya.

It sounds like a pretty cool boat. I'll email you to get some more info.:drink:

28 Velocity was great for Lake St Clair, and mine was just breaking 80mph with a 502 crate.

Never had a problem in the rough, and we used to run the south channel up and over and right back down the north channel regularly.

Decent interior, v bunk was good enough for me @ 6'7"

T38

There's been a few to mention Velocity, but they just don't do it for me style wise. Something about the rise of the fairing doesn't work for me. I think they are otherwise nice boats though.

If you like the AT, the all white one for sale in the classies is a nice one.

IMO, i like the low slung, look of the classics. And that is hard to do on a 20-30ft boat w/ alot of freeboard.
Some of the newer 28 panteras will have cut-outs in the floor under the front seats.

IMO you can't go wrong with a 292 if you can find a good deal. In this economy who knows what you might find.

A 292 will definitely will meet your priorities. Plush cabin (ultra-leather), great ride, easy dock manners with twins, efficient twin stepped hull, AND will do over 70mph in the right conditions (6.2's and 28" pitch Bravo's). Good luck!:ernaehrung004:

Thanks. I was wondering what they'd run with 6.2's.:ernaehrung004:

Has anyone been in an AT 28 and a 292, how does the size compare of the cabin and cockpit?

I plan to call on that one if it's still around when I get ready to buy. I'm a little concered over the pro-charger being on it though. I wonder how that will effect it's reliabilty, etc? I'd probably have to remove it for insurance too.:mad:

You should try to make a trip to a boat show and crawl around a 292. The feel of quality and ergonomics is unmatched. We searched for 3 years before going with the Formula. Power stand-up bolsters, deep cockpit, and a nice windshield. Great for cruising. Never been in a AT, but the 292 is a heavy 24° deadrise V wave crusher for a 29 footer. Of course, the 29' includes the swim platform. She won't be the fastest, but with stock, turn key small blocks it can hold its own!

Never been in a 292 cabin, but looked at a few 312's. The cabin in the 312 was about the same size as my 28 Pantera.