First Boat Question - Bullet vs AT/Pantera 28
 

I am planning on buying my first boat this spring once it warms up a little here in Detroit. I have been "prop kicking" for years now, but am finally ready (well, that is assuming my employer, GM, will be around past March :party-smiley-004:). I have been around boats since a kid, so I'm not completely new but it will be my first performance boat. I have been researching for quite some time, so I have a good idea of what's involved with the different options.

I have it narrowed down to a few boats really. I like Active Thunder and Pantera 28's, but there are few around. I have also found some Cig Bullet 31's. With some of the good deals out there, I could afford a newer, around 2000 or so, 28. The alternative would be a renovated 88 or 89 Bullet. I'd like a cat, but can't insure one and they have no way to overnight if necessary.

For insurance, I'd need to be under 500 HP on a single and probably under 850 for twins. I think a single EFI motor would be better than carbed twins in the Bullet. But on the other hand, it's a Cig:drink:, and a bigger boat. The bullet would be the max I could tow, so any upgrade in size would need a new truck too, which isn't happening for quite some time.

The last concern would be insuring/financing a 20 year old boat no matter how nice.

Overall, I just want to get the opinions of people who have been there and done that already.:ernaehrung004:

If You Go A Single , A 28 Is The Way To Go ,
A 31 Cig With Under 850 Hp Will Be Slow Plus A Lot More Headache Becuase Im Sure It Would Be An Older Boat

Just My 2 Cents
Mike

Take a look at the 28 Sonic great boat, loved it.And another good looking boat that might fit your needs is a 30 Superboat Y2K. Great looking boat but never owned one but would be on my list for a single engine boat.

I've checked out both, and they aren't really the top choices for me. Y2k is too small (even for a 30) and has no cabin to speak of. I'd be interested in a Sonic if it was a steal, but haven't seen too many yet that would qualify.

I'm also fairly (actually very) picky on graphics, colors, etc. I'd rather all white or something priced right so I could vinyl wrap.

One more to throw into the mix would be a 28 Saber.

By the way... Were all praying that you will have a job in the spring and for many years to come. Good Luck

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I think we'll be OK, when people who can afford to spend actually do, we have a lot of nice stuff out there now.:drink:

Good Luck, with what ever you get, when buying used I will tell you , you can't be but so picky, on graphics.
Just get the newest boat you can, insurance on a 20 year old boat is difficult to attain.

You might consider a 32 AT.

I would think that you boat on lake MI. If so.... bigger the better. Maybe step up to a used Cig?




Darrell.

I would go with a newer model single engine 28 rather than an older twin.

A Bullet is a much bigger boat than the others...good or bad depending on what you want.

Another to consider would be a Sunsation. The 28 is a single, but is smaller than a 28 Pantera or Cig. The 32 can be had in a single or twin. A twin 32 Sunsation with very mild and reliable 330/454s would run right at 70.

There is a 28 POWERPLAY for sale in the classifieds !!!!

Now thats a nice boat. They run very strong and well.

Boating on Lake Michigan would bring a 28 AT to the top of the list. Might not be the fastest boat on glass water, but will eat up the rough stuff.

Ditto

There is NO way an AT can be compared to a Powerplay in the ruff or in flat water.

I know the Powerplay name is not good ,but thats because of the man building them ,even though i never had a problem with him.

But the boats are super and solid, and don't even go to " yae but Mr K ,,,,,thats a complete diffrent story !

Powerplay is the best joyce in my book as far as reliable and handling also what you get for the buck !!!!!!:ernaehrung004:

Nothing against the Powerplay. I'm sure they are a good boat. For that matter, the Pantera is a good, well built boat with lots of cockpit room and a great name. But the Active Thunder factory is still there, still building great boats.

You haven't been in a late model 28AT in the rough then.

But let's be realistic...

How rough can you actually be "comfortable and secure" while running a 28 foot boat?

(I've been in a 23' Sunsation in 4-6 footers on a 40 mile roundtrip, but I wouldn't call it comfortable.)

Whose definition of "rough" are we using?

Also, what is "running"? 25 mph? 45 mph? 65 mph?

The only way to know which boat is right, its to run each of them. When I test drive a dually, I don't drive it around the block and say "hey that's great" and buy it. I take my 37' boat with me TO the point of sale, and tow the boat with THE truck I'm considering. Then I make a decision.

If you take a boat for a test ride on a flat lake, and plan to run it offshore once you buy it, you could be in for a rude awakening.

I agree,,,,,,and i haven't been in a AT,,,but i have been in Powerplay's and all i can say is they are great.
Ruff to me is washboard not the actual hight of the waves,,, ran in 6-7 footers max but washboard like not roolers just coming along every 25-35 feet apart.
Compfi ?????? hell no, but fun if you know your limits and what your doing.
I stuffed a 33 Powerplay at 70 MPH ,,,dont whant to do that again,,but it was absolutely my fault ,,not the boat's.
Tell you what though ,the damn thing had close to nothing and i stuffed it bad ,,,hit the botom of the river and jumped back out of the water,,,,few scratches on the boat ,,i was down for about 2 weeks and still hurting today .
So all i can say ,,i am glad it was a Powerplay and it still runs today after about 4 K repair ,,,,front bulkhead and gelcoat ,,,no damage to the glass,,,,,that tells me ,GOOD BUILT BOAT.
I know 1 guy telling me ,,actually a friend of mine ,,,he sold his AT and now has the fastest 38 PP out there,,,,he never looks back or misses his AT !:eek:

I've met John a few times. He's a character! Actually, the last time I saw him , he was fighting a motor issue on the KW PR; and he was telling Terry he was going to order a Nor-Tech with stock power! :D

Keep in mind though, 28s and 38s -(ish) are different animals altogether. Danny built great boats and he & Pat (AT) were actually really good friends.

I wish I still had the pics of the 37AT we affectionately call "Rock Climber"-- hanging 70+ feet up off the side of the mountain in California. They floated that boat back to the trailer once they yanked it back down into the water, and its back on the water today.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

All great boats named at 28'. Don't think you can go wrong with anyone of them.

Since you're in Royal Oak why not go with a 28 Sunsation. Lots of good ones around with 496HO or 500. And you're only about a half hour from the factory. They are known for being really good about supporting there new and used boats. If you're going to be on St. Clair/ D. River/Erie mostly that would be an awesome boat. And easy to tow and insure. Also seem to hold there value pretty well.

rlj676,

If I can answer any questions for you on our custom Hi - Performance boat line (new or pre-owned) please feel free to call me at 786-331-7100 or email me at: [email protected]

Jo - Pantera Boats

Thanks for the advice everyone.

That powerplay is nice, but not my first choice really (purple, the lines, etc). At that asking price I think I could find something more exactly what I wanted, but if it was being "given away" I'd be very interested.

I have been "shopping" (just looking really) for 3+ years, so I am well aware of damn near all the options out there. I like Sunsations, but the 288 does not compare to the AT or Pantera I think in size, as it has a swimstep in the length. The 32's are nice but pricey.:party-smiley-004:

Basically, I'm looking for something under 50K, which although isn't a ton in terms of a boat, is still a LOT of money to me. Therefore, graphics, looks, etc, do matter. I wouldn't buy an ugly car for half that, so there is a lot to take into consideration for me. So, my basic question is more of a newer 28ish single vs a 20 year old Bullet with twins. Now, if a newer 32 Sunsation or AT comes along at a great deal, I would certainly consider it. I haven't really seen anything yet.:ernaehrung004:

Jo, I will probably be calling you later and towards the season to see if you have any leads on 28's that could go for under 50. I wish I could just pick up the new one of course.

Of course, if someone knows of a great deal on anything I've mentioned I'd like to hear about it.

Oh, and the majority of my boating will be on Lake St Clair, which compared to LOTO where I'm used to (I'm from KC MO originally) isn't too rough at all. So while I want decent offshore performance, it isn't the only factor.

Maybe...maybe not.

But I do know he brings it back to the AT factory anytime he needs my paint job touched up. :evilb:

Ok, my 2 cents,

All of the boats up to AND including a Sunsation 32 are smaller than the Cig Bullet. The Bullet is a true, very heavy, straight transomed 31' boat. No beaks or molded swim platforms. Discounting headroom, I'm almost certain it has the biggest cabin of anything mentioned above (I haven't been in all the boats listed). It has a separate enclosed head with a pumpout toilet and a sink. I've had 6-7 in the cabin with no one up on the V-berth and everyone was comfortable.

I also think it will handle the biggest seas with the most comfort than anything above. I think most would probably agree that for it's size, there are not many (if any) that could take a better sea. And they are priced right with the current economy.

Now the downside..... It's well over 10K lbs sitting on a trailer. Probably closer to 12K. Being a straight, heavy vee bottom, it takes alot of power to go fast. 850 total HP will probably only be 62-65mph. Cost of running will probably be higher than the other boats listed. Cockpit is well designed, but a little small. 6 people would be the max if rough water is on the menu. I ran a poker run last year with some friends in a Baja and their cockpit was a ballroom compared to mine. Another downside would be a lack of wind protection.

Other than that, I love my Bullet, so I guess I'm biased :)

A friend of mine had a 28 AT /502. Was on the boat many times and really like the high freeboard and it has a large cabin for a 28. We boated on Lake Erie and it handled the slop very well.

I had a 1987 31 Cigarette Decathlon (same hull as Bullet) with trip outboards. That boat was a heavy wave crusher but it sure burned the fuel.

Have you thought about a 29 Scarab? Have a friend with one of these and really like that boat also was single 502.

If 60ish is ok with you.

Insurance may require a survey on a boat older then 10 years so check that out so you do not get stuck paying some crazy rate even if you can get it insured.

I've had boats with single, twin and triple engines.

Get the newest boat you can afford with a single and get on the water and have fun. I had just as much fun with my 24 Superboat and 24 Outlaw as the bigger boats at a fraction of the cost for fuel, maintance and up keep.

Did you work at KCK? I am new to Wentzville Mo. via Ohio.
I went to LOTO this summer and fell in love but I still miss my Lake Erie. Fingers crossed for the future..............

Hey HOLLOWPOINT,

I see you are from Virgina Beach. I sold my Cig Decathlon to a guy from that area a few years ago. It was White with Black and Gray stripes down the side with trip outboards.
just wondering if you ever seen it or if it is still around.

I don't see any boats talked about in this thread that aren't high quality boats.

Go water test them and go from there.

My 28 Pantera was a great boat. The only thing I wished was that it had more freeboard. It is still a 28 footer and will only be so comfortable in sloppy water. My 32 AT rides a LOT better in the LOTO rough water and th AT has as much freeboard as a 38 TG.

Either boat will handle any rough water you throw at it.

Never ridden in a 28AT, but I expect the ride would be comparable to the Pantera. The 28 AT will have a lot more freeboard.

I have only seen one open Cig around here and it's been in the last 6-9 months. I have passed one sitting for sale near the Lynnhaven Inlet. I haven't stopped and can see mainly just the bow since it is sandwiched between other boats. I can't see the power, but it's all white with black/blue/gray hockey stick stripes (not sure of stripe colors as I go by it at 45mph).

Next time I'm up that way, I'll try to stop by.

I really like my 27ZX Donzi. 28ZX is the same size with a stepped hull. Seen quite a few for sale this year for under $50K. Great boat with a usable cabin. It's my first boat so I am by no means and expert. But for a first boat it has been good and we used it quite a bit last year. Spent many a weekend on it over the summer. Probable not the fastest boat and certainly not as roomy as some of the bigger boats. But has worked for river running on th St Croix and hanging out for a day at the lake. I think the quality of Donzi was heads above some of the other boats. Ours is a 1997 and was had for a pretty decent price.

BTW rlj656, No Cig Bullets were ever produced as a single and I've never heard of someone converting one to a single.

So to sum it up, I think the questions you must answer to yourself are the importance of:
Size vs Single or twin engines?
Ability to afford cost of running?
How much will you use a cabin?
How important is heavy sea capabilities?
How rough is YOUR normal boating area?

Many people may say buy as new as possible, but the tradeoff (and a major one in my opionion) is the need to settle for a smaller boat and one with a single engine when you use that approach.

Personally, I prefer twins, especially if you are running up to 50+ miles from where you launched. At least you know you can limp home on one engine instead of having a $1200 tow!

There is a 31' around our way with a pair of V-8 OMC's off the back. It's a deep navy blue. Sharp looking boat. Avanti from Palmyra, NJ had it for sale for a long time. I heard a father bought it for his kids.

I was making the same choice as you on 28-31' boats several years back. It all came down to the Bullet, Pantera, AT, PowerPlay, and one not mentioned yet, the Saber. We couldn't find a Saber or PowerPlay, a deal fell through on a nice Bullet, and the lack of freeboard on the Pantera didn't excite the wife. Love the Bullet; it's a tank, but it also takes a LOT of power to get them moving anywhere near 70.
Then we met Pat at AT. The rest is history. We loved our 28, it ran 3 of the 5 Great Lakes while we owned it (as well as the Atlantic down in Florida). It's now prowling the Pacific. Equipped with twin 350magMPI's, it was VERY economical to run. I would own another boat manufactured by Active Thunder in a heartbeat. The cabins are large, the freeboard is unrivaled in its class, it handled rough water with a good feeling of safety, and we were treated like royalty by the company that built it. What more could you ask for?
Jim

I don't think anyone has said it, but what ever boat you choose be sure to get a survey done.

At 5'-4" there is alot of freeboard on a Pantera :drink:

We got in a Sonic once and I couldnt see over the panel!!

Test drive them, stand in them and then decide. All good boats.

If you're thinking 31 Bullet, don't forget the 32 Hustler, which would be a great Lake Michigan boat.

Go With Twins
 

I would not buy a 28 ft boat with a single engine.Docking is a breeze with twins.Plus as mentioned,the 5.7 mag mpi are very easy on fuel and they will push a 28-29 ftr near 70.And sinkt at 4800 they sound sweeeet.