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Old 02-19-2009, 08:04 PM
  #21
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I agree to it burns me up, and now obama wants us to pay for there mistakes, this guy is going to make things worst with this package there saying on cnbc/ fox news.
Yes!!! and people who make a honest living, live within thier means and have great income can no longer get boat loans, Trust me I am as pissed as anyone!!!
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:44 PM
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the rating agencies should be the ones being investigated, if the banks had held onto the notes they would have been more careful, when they found a way to sell subprime loans the whole thing took off, what a scam
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:56 PM
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Yes!!! and people who make a honest living, live within thier means and have great income can no longer get boat loans, Trust me I am as pissed as anyone!!!
You said it brotha! Felt like a bum when they looked us over for the refinance of our 15 year note on the Business property.....Wife and I show an 800+ credit score each and never ever missed a payment on anything, they took the equity line we had away like we were toddlers. Asked for 6 months of canceled checks for the leased vehicles, what a joke. A friend who we thought was always a big time operator with his Vettes and nice Condo in the sky misses a few mortgage payments and they give him a 5% APR. WTF???

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Old 02-19-2009, 09:19 PM
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Yep Greenspan sits there and says hey how could i say whoa we need to slow this down and start checking things out when everybody was living the goodlife because hedid not want to have been the bearer of badnews or reality. It was his JOB he did not step up to the plate and spell it out and take a ration of chit from everybody like they would have given him but he would have looked much better now than he does now
Bastard should be in jail.

Have any of you read the details of the plan? Not that many folks are gonna be eligible for help. Plenty of the fools are going down.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:21 PM
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I am an appraiser and I have been one for 12 years. I can't let you blame all appraisers. From my piont of view, allot still has to do with people not wanting to pay their bills. If the house was still going up in value do you think they would complain? I worked for a National Bank during the hey day of all this, so I have insider knowledge as to how, at least my bank screwed up. We were not a "sub-prime" lender so teh fraud was not as rampant. I know the loses came from the wholesale side. Here is something that might help you to undertsand. I appraiser a house for lets say $500,000. The contract price is $520,000. Now I am the bad guy for the deal not working. The lender knows somebody else can get the number. In my case, I stay where I am. So to avoid losing the deal ,what they do is have the VP sign off on the deal knowing in the next two months the house will probably be worth the $520k. At that point, all they do is call an agent who works with the bank and have them do a BPO (broker price opinion) stick that in the file and off it goes. So you see allot of times appraisers were out of the picture. As things got bad in 07 and I started to really mess things up for the deals that they did have, I was sent packing.................................Now the people who have been left out of all of this is the Real Estate Agents. They have helped drive prices down. You see 12 years ago, here in MD it took you 6 months to sell your house. That is waht you planned on. As the market went crazy, agents started getting used to 30 day settlements. So as homes started to sit long and longer, the agent wants to get paid. They decide the house must be over priced. Not that there is a large group of buyers any more. Price was never the issue. Nobody was buying and nobody was getting approved. Now, not all agents did this. In fact, what i have found, is the better agents are still working and making money. The ones who wanted to get rich qucik are gone.

I really think most of what everybody has said is correct to a point. I still see the biggest problem, is people deciding not to pay. You make an investment sometimes it works sometimes it does not. You still have to pay. The fed is dead wrong by stepping in. The only thing I would want the fed to do, make sure that our banking is still controled by companies in the US. The last thing we need is foreign companies (China) controling our banking system.

One last point, the CEO crap. As allot of people on this board know from being successful, self employed, is you can not put a price on making decisons. I appauld CEO's for some of the deals that they made. The companies who hired them did not have to give them their deals. Most CEO's that I know are complete workaholics....24-7 is all they know. I know many of you on this board know what I am talking about. You are the end of the line, the problem needs to be solved by you wether it is Monday or Sat night. You are the decision maker.

I won't even go into how new regulations to the appraisal buiness, that come into effect in May will put me out of business. That is a whole discussion for a different day. With that being said, the worst has yet to come. After may 1, 2009 the mortgage industry will be turned on its azz and not know what to do.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:09 AM
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The only reason I bring up the apparaisers is exactly what you said in your post.They were manipulated by the mortgage brokers to make an appraisal work.I don't believe it was quite so bad in your area nor was the problem so rampant with the banks . The mortgage brokers hit up the apparaisers for high values on refis or 2nds and the appraisers made the deal work.

Have you been doing any review work lately ?

For the people that don't know about them this is a process where the secondary market owner of the note may eventauly ask for a review of the 1st appraisal by a random appraisal outfit. As you do the review it is your job to see that the basic outlines of appraising are followed and the said property is correct in size and descriptionand adjustments were made accordingly.

Well i don't know what you have seen up there on these reviews but there were many down here that were pure out and out lies.

The appraisers allowed them selves to be manipulated by the mortgage brokers because if they didn't the brokers would go some where else. You said it yourself.

That is what you had to do to stay in business,was it right? Sometimes you have to have a little leinancy to make the world go smooth but smooth turned into slippery and that is where many appraisers let the lenders down.

And once you gave a mortgage brokers an inch they expected a mile sometimes 2 on the next deals . It just became a frenzy, the morgage brokers knew that they had the appraisers under their thumbs and they would be forced to make any deal work so all they had to do is find a living breathing body with a house and they could get their commision check.

I would be very interested to see the breakdown of foreclosures as to how many were issued by banks as opposed to brokers and the biggest thing i would like to see is the percentage that are refis or 2nd because this is where the brokers fed like swine at the trough.

The appraisers are going to take a big hit in May but they brought this upon themselves they let greed get in the way of responsibility to the lenders.

And i am by no means saying all the appraisers were bad. I know a few that did not go down that road and they were not the most popular with the brokers and many shyed away from the brokers and tryed to work with the banks,They sleep at nite knowing that if their previous work was reviewed it was up to snuff. And these people are the ones that should remain with their license.Way to many people jumped on the bandwagon for the quick buck and this is a perfect time to weed out the bad ones with reviews.

So to sum it all up.I am not saying that all appraisers are the problem .A fair amount of them down here did their job correctly but the others were the 1st step into this mess.

Last edited by tommymonza; 02-20-2009 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:35 AM
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What if lenders were forced to lengthen terms to lets say 40 years, with a fixed rate. Seems to me it would help people that bought homes the couldnt afford by reducing the note and the lender would profit signifigantly more interest??
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:56 AM
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The problem starts with the actaul market vaue of the house was probaly stretched to 120% of the real market back in the heyday so the broker could get his commision and closing fees.
And the real problem is as the mortage made its way from lender to lender they rewarded themselves with a commision and at the end of the year another bonus for doing so well. A 100.000 house was mortagaed at 120000 and after the loan was resold and marketed many times over that loan even though on paper is only 120000 if it was not interst only has now cost probaly 150000 to the banking system throughout the process of every body grabbing their rewards.

Even if the mortgages worked out as they planned there was very little reserve left as many people were rewarded heavily throughout the process and this problem is 50% of the reason the banks ran out of money.

Most of thepeople that bought houses to flip or as rentals are not the kind of people that are going to pay for them no matter what kind of help you give them. It is far to easy to walk away and put the problem behind them.They hang onto their primary residence and all the toys they bought with the refi money and bye bye.

Last edited by tommymonza; 02-20-2009 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 02-20-2009, 04:56 PM
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Tommy, allot of good points and you are correct except I don't think what is going to happen in May is going to be good for anybody. The ones who will pay for the new process is the home owner who will end up paying over $300 for an appraisal that they will not need. As it seems you knwo about the business, then you must agree the winners in all of this will be the AMC (appraisal management companies) that have all sprouted up within the past year. Now I have found out, that some of the owners of "sub-prime" companies that closed up have bought and or opened up AMC companies. They will be getting around 40-50% of the appraisal fee. So I will give up a big chunk of my money all in the name of following the law. Not to mention, the fees will come down, as more and more appraisers want work. They simply send each order out to 5 or more guys and whoever wants it first for the lowest fee gets the work..............Not really how I want to do business. I still have to carry the full liability fo the whole deal for 5 years. All for maybe $150-$200........It really won't be for me at that point.

I do a good amount of work for law firms and a good amount of work for FHA. So I will hold on as long as I can. My usual fee for law work is at least $500. I have allot of time invested in my training and my credentials so I try to hold out to be paid what I feel it is worth. Not being arrogant, my opinion cost money.

As for review work, the whole system is flawed. You are paying to have someone find something wrong with your appraisal. In most cases now, they are being reviewed by 3rd party companies who do not use appraisers but rather data from an area. How do you do a review if you all use different data? I have had reviews done lately and I can tell you some come back ok some don't . Like I said, you are paying for someone to find something wrong, so they usually do to justify the cost. I have never had anything (knock on wood) that could not be explained. I send out a very thorough report. I have been at it a long time so I really try to cover as much as I can from the beginning.

For the next talk wait til you see the trouble ahead for HUD, after all of the FHA deals I have seen in the last 3 months. It will be a disaster as it was in 2003. That is a conversation over drinks at a dock side bar in warm weather rather than this crap I am in now.........................I am always open for talks on what is going on and what has happened, email if you like.

Are you in the industry?

For the mess here is my break down

Mortgage Brokers (not lenders) 50%
Appraisers 30%
People not paying their bills 20%

I have seen all 3 sides. The last one is the worst.
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