O.T. need help/advice/contacts for new company startup
 

This site is such a great resource for making connections/ getting advice!!

My partner and I are preparing our small company startup for a product that will hopefully be used by many here on the board. We are pulling a tax ID on April 1. We need help. We are both engineers but have a lot to learn about starting up and properly running a small company.

I am looking for advice/contacts in the following areas.

1)web site design for retail purchase of our product, including secure ordering with credit card

2) inexpensive help on a logo/ graphic

3) insite into the automotive aftemarket industry( jobber pricing structure, how does it work, can you sell your own retail through your own site also, etc.

4) good aftermarket distributors/catalogs/ web site distributors

5) other usefull info (do this... don't do that.... etc)

thanks for you're experience/advice and insite

Once our patent submission is in. We will be unveiling our product and soliciting a few of you to use/test/ give input on the product performance. More to come..... Waterfoul has already spoken for the first prototype.:p

please respond here or email me directly..... Thanks for the help

Where to start... where to start?

You ask good questions. Here are some more, and a few answers:

Patent protection only gives you the right to pay for a lengthy legal battle when your idea is directly and all most exactly copied.

Do you have a realistic business plan with both financial projections AND cash flow projections? Not a pretty little document that you do to satisfy someone else, but a thoughtful analysis of what your business will require to be successful. Writing this down helps focus the founders on the ugly boring stuff that otherwise is lost in the glammer of a startup.

For most small businesses, QuickBooks is the most common accounting package, but it is weak for manufacturers trying to cost and track WIP. I know of no good, inexpensive package for very small businesses like yours. So use QuickBooks, but be aware of its limitations.

Have you thought of the human side of the business? You and a partner sharing the work. Who is responsibile for what? will you both hold other jobs too? what are you inidividual strengths and weaknesses? What additional people are needed, how will you pay them before sales happen, what personality traits does each job require? Who will manage them?

How do you know customers will like your product? (Don't expect others to share your personal likes.) What kind of market research have you done?

What is the structure of your business, and why?

That should be enough for right now. Good luck.

Hey Rob, I don't know much about starting a business but I do know how to run one. If I can help, let me know. I could maybe share in the profit or something simple like that.:D No, really, let me know if you need anything.:) I am off for Hawaii in 10 hours so I will touch base when I get back. Good luck.:D

hi guys SO waterfoul told you about the site huh????


Post Whore #1!

I tired to e-mail you but your blocked. So email me at [email protected] I can help you out in the web/graphic design area and can even help out with some of the marketing stuff. Best off I work inexpensively (my company is just me) and I'm still sort fo in college (I say sort of becasue the business seems to be pushing school to the backburner)

OR feel free to give me ring 516-759-6309

I could address your logo / graphics / Printed materials needs.
I have access to some very talented designers who are affordable.

Let me know

dh

May be able to help...
 

I would be interested in learning more about your company and see if we might be able to help you out. We are a full service marketing communications company and do lots of work in the marine industry. We also have lots of experience with start-ups doing everything from logo/ identity design to all of the supporting marketing materials. Web sites, brochures, etc. Take a look some of our recent work. Josh 216.233.8474
www.migi.com
www.eatonjobs.com
www.gelighting.com

Rambunctious....

Email me any questions at [email protected].

I think I can help you:) Spent 10 years in the AA industry and currently own an e- business. We can exchange phone #'s and I can get you lots of info. Specifically I can give you insite on the industry. I think I can be a huge help and even put you in contact with people that can help you sell. Plus I can tell you my experiences on starting a business from scratch. All in 30 seconds or less. LOL! Not really, but if we exchange numbers maybe I can touch base with you when I get "off work".

Mark

Rambunctious,

I can steer you to a good accounting firm over your way that we use. They handle payroll and our pension plan for us. If you would like their contact info feel free to PM me.

Good fortunes to you and your partner!!:D

Thank you for all the replies, keep them coming.

Chart: We plan to file a provisional, allows patent pending for a year to scare off copycats, then with some revenue we can pay to complete the filing if we choose. just want the patent pending.....

Partner and I spent the whole day Monday on our way to the (exciting) manufacturing expo in Chicago. discussed partnership agreement, and roles/responsibilities. just starting the business plan stuff this week. Need some data from SEMA and the like to get to these numbers.

thanks Puder - STAY IN SCHOOL. the credentials will allow a better fee for your service in the future!! I'll send out some ideas for our logo

We plan to join SEMA, and will be attending (not exhibiting) their new show in Chicago the end of April. Goal is to exhibit our product in Vegas in November ( a stretch goal)

I'm on this board everyday, I'm addicted. Great discussions and great people!! I am excited about the opportunity to utilize some of you for market research and durability testing. I cannot disclose the product idea quite yet because that would void any possibility for patent protection. so that is on the top of our list.

Mitch- does that mean you will share in the first two years of losses too? See ya at the reception.

Thanks in2deep - been thinking about the logo. got a name for the company, thinking about the product name. I'll follow up

Josh. i'll check out your work!!

32fever. I will call you. I'm hoping you can help us with this Jobber stuff..... and distribution. It will be great to discuss the AA with someone with experience!!!

Playn. I will keep your name. right now my partners mom is a CPA and is real cheap:p . but we have growth plans!! thanks

Keep them coming... a few more questions:

1) when you purchase equipment, can you treat that whole cost as an expense for the year you bought it, or do you HAVE to depreciate over time. this is basic accounting I know (I'm only an engineer)

2) how do others write off their garage / outbuildings for taxes. I heard it can bite you down the road when selling your house, paying cap gains on the portion you "rented to yourself"
thanks for all the help

First off good luck as some one that is also self employeed I know the excitement that you can have when doing something like this. Also be aware that it is hard work. Lots of rejection when you are first starting out and failure. However once you break through and things start to role there is NOTHING more rewarding then doing something for yourself. One warning for you in regards to your partnership. Be very prepaired that this will change your relationship with your friend. I lost a very good friend with my company when I found out he was trying to start up a new business behind my back and steel employees!!!! As I do not know what your product is yet it is hard to advise on some of your quesions as every product requires some different aproaches.

As far as sales: Contact Nickslick at Website monster. Not only does he seem to have a comprehensive one stop plan to web sales but he is available to answer your calls. I have seen him at work when I have been out in Cali and he is really good at his job. Yes you can sell to the public on line retail and also sell to wholesalers. Just make sure that your prices are not so low that you do not leave the retailer room for profit. Bose Speakers does this very succesfully. (oh man did I just say Bose does something good? May God strike me down with lightning!!!!) :D

Your accounting should be done by an accountant!!! He will tell you the best way to write off your stuff. You can rent back your garage to yourself but he will be able to explaine the good and the bad about doing this. As far as depreciation it all depends on the size of the equipment that you are trying to write off, and its expected life.

I will say this in close. DO NOT be afraid to ask for help. You may get some one that will say I can help you and I think I can make this fly but I was 50% of the sales. This may be better if they truely can make your product fly. Remember 50% of something is better then 100% of nothing.

Good luck man I always pull for the little guys like ourselves. You will love working for yourself :D

Jon

Well, I can cover the first one for you. All new business startup costs must be depreciated. Once you are actually in business, then your accountant can help you with what has to be depreciated vs expensed in current year. You need to talk to a tax accountant about the second.

Here's a tip. Many of the MBA programs now have candidates do real world business plans instead of a thesis. This may be free or of little cost to you. Contact Keller Graduate School in your area and ask for the MBA Capstone Project professor. I went through that program and the small company that I did the plan for a couple years ago is doing about $1mill in revenue now.

mach1shorty.

thanks for the idea. a great one!!! I will look into the help. how about you help us write our business plan. I like the $1 MM revenue figure. :D

I'd be happy to help, but my company frowns on extra curricular work. It gives them the impression I don't have enough to do. :rolleyes: You'd be better off with someone local anyway.

Ram-b,
Hey, just read this AFTER I emailed you. I'll get with you on the phone:) But I did want to address the dep. issues.

Yes, consult an accountant always. But I do know you can take some in the tax year. There are guidelines, and the limit was like $17,000 I think, but we usually take computers, etc. in the same tax year if we don't go over the max. Computers are outdated in about 12 months anyway, so some of the rules are what I'd call outdated. Check with a "professional' though.

You also probably have a local Small Business Association office or group.

I'm not sure what you're developing, but a device to get 25 mpg out of a big block marine engine would sell "fairly well" I'd gather. LOL! :D

Mark

Jon, keep in mind, not all industries and/or companies operate in the same manner:D I emailed Ramb the exact opposite advice. Just like in your industry, you won't be able to create a website and sell B&K receivers to me online without their permission which would likely be difficult to get, as far as I know you can't advertise pricing, etc. online or they yank you. I have to walk into a store to get one "legally" so to speak. Now, Summit can sell Edelbrock online, but you can't buy edelbrock on their own website (they will tell you where to buy). (using a website as "retail" example) And Summit does buy direct (under their wholesale company name). The WD's in AA are actually the ones doing the retail and wholesale limbo game.

In your industry, many programs are set up to protect the retail stores that demo product, in the AA industry, much is setup to protect WD's and their ability to provide jobbers with product, which in turn protects the "small guys" with stores, speed shops, etc. That's the lifeblood of the industry. Not only product, but knowledgeable advice. The AA industry is different from the CE indsutry, as is every other I'm aware of, but many of the "goals" are the same.

And each industry can be in it's different stages. We're experiencing some "evolution" with our manufacturers. They're raising "buy in " orders, and not extending accounts to every Tom Dick & Harry. Things change over time with the growth of industry.

Anyway, just putting another perspective on things:) What Bose does is a lot of f-in work, too....I think they'd be better off improving product, new product development than answering phones from Paul Harvey ads and shipping speakers. LOL!

Mark

You are referring to IRS section 179, which allows businesses to expense upto $17,000 (May be even higher now, I'm not an accountant) a year of otherwise depreciable assits. If it is a vechile, it needs to be over 6000lb GVWR. Therefore, not a passagner car. Keep in mind, when you sell the asset, any money from the sale of the asset that was expensed is considered revenue.

If you are using a building on your primary residence for the business, there is a little known tax advantage you should investigate. It was established for farmers, but works for any business that can justify why a "live aboard" employee is a sound business decision. The business (a c corp) owns the house, and provides free housing to the employee in exchage for the employee living on the businesses grounds. The employee does not have to report housing as income, and the business gets to take housing expenses as a business deduction. Down side is when the property is sold, any appreapiation is the businesses, and not excempt under the 250,000/500,000 maried couple primary residence clause. Of course, your tax advisor should have some suggestions on this.

Re: Business plans. I am not in favor of hiring a firm or an MBA class to do this. (No offense intended. I've got MBAs, and did these in my capstone class also, but it isn't the same as the founders doing it). You're engineers, so let's put this in engineer speek: When you go to get ISO certified, you can hire a consultant to record excatly what you already do, write procedures, and generate the pretty paperwork to satisfy the registar. Or, you can hire a consultant to help you look hard at each process, clean it up and streamline it, write the new process as a procedure, and not only get you the documents, but inprove your processes at the same time. When you write a plan the right way, it is very thought provoking, and should help you to design a business that is better than if you just jumped in and start swiming. (You can over plan, but you can under plan too. and hiring others to do the whole business plan is underplanning.)

One last thing to this novel: Many CPA's are not "tax managers." Many focus on records and reporting, but not as much on tax planning. I know it is delicate when a mother is involved, and right now you have more important issues, but at some point you should look hard at how well your tax advisor is helping you to legally advoid taxes.

Good Luck.

Hi Rambunctious! :)

Sounds like you have some excitement ahead of ya! I wanted to throw my two pennies in, and would have e mailed, but didn't have an addy.

I know of an excellent company that's pretty much "local" to you (they're in GR). Their work is wonderful and they don't scalp you pricewise. I did quite a bit of cooperative work with their company when I lived in GR (our companies did sort of parallel things and so often we worked together). Not to mention their reputation for intregrity.

They've done:professional sports teams,chemical companies, radio stations- even some Italian chocolatier(and a very scary "soap selling" *we are not a pyramid* company LOL

Drop me an email if you want the name and stuff. I've worked with him on an emormous project where iron clad non-disclosures were in place, which it sounds like you may need.

[email protected]

If nuthin else he can give you a realistic ballpark figure for what kind of $$$ you will be looking at to get it done. Hopefully he won't double the fee if you mention my name. ;)

Melissa

thanks Melissa. I will email you about the patent stuff. it isn't that i don't trust anyone, (I'm an engineer, I trust everyone) it is just that i don't want the patent office/law firm to say the claim is invalid because of public disclosure.

32fever, if you sent an email. i did not receive it.

FYI the email feature doesn't seem to be working so........
[email protected]
if anyone has anything to send.

this input is great!!.

Yea, Yea, Yea. Ok so what is it? You've teased us enough. You are an engineer in the product development of car parts, so is

this a product which crosses over to marine?
How much will it cost?
Do I buy it only once or on a regular basis?
Can I hold it to use or is it for an engine?
Can I share it?
What will it do for me?
Does it have to do with exhaust and mufflering?
Why will I want it and be willing to pay for it?
Is it original or is it an extension of something existing?
Are you splashing something?(current hot topic)

Do we have to wait until 'April 1st' for it's unvailing?

Some fields use a pricing structure;
.....manufacture at cost $X,
.....sell to wholesale at $2X, manufacture doubles his cost,
...........who sells it retail at $4x, wholesaler doubles his cost,
...........who sell it to dealers for 20-30% off retail depending on volume.

i.e. $100(cost)--$200(wholesale)--$400(retail)--$280-320(dealer).

Cobra Marty.
I don't want to ignore your inquiry but I can't disclose the product yet, as mentioned above ONLY for patentability.
maybe this reply is worse
but.....
It won't make your boat go faster or sound louder, sorry. That's my other idea, one at a time.....

Some will say "whatever" but others will say..."hey cool, i need one of them......good price...good design.....useful... I'll take one"

believe me, I'm chomping at the bitt.....want to know what people think. meeting with the patent lawyer this week to get past the patent stuff. Thanks for the interest. It makes the effort and "lately obsession" worth it


Rob

Thank you all for your help, I still plan to follow up with some of your offers for advice etcetera, I have your messages.

Well, Here is our Product. "Tow Lite" We are now patent Pending and working on commercializing this idea. We have bought mfg equipment and working on our sources for other things (welding, powdercoat, etc)

here are a few pics of our first Prototype. Look up Waterfoul at LOTO to see it, and if you have any comments on this product I would love your input.

Functional position

closer look



by the way. S R Industries Stands for Scott and Rob, but also,
"The sophisticated Rednecks"

folded to the side to allow the tailgate to open, also a transport position.

The "Tow lite" is removable like a bike carrier and also has a remote stand and Wire extension to allow the changing of a trailer tire on the road with good (ie safer) illumination, or maybe setting up a camp site, etc.

oops, forgot the attachment, see one more post

folded to the side

Cool Idea.......there is a major trade show in Vegas in Nov.. migh tlook at checking into it....I'll prob be there with a bud promoting his product...www.theswingbox.com

exactly, I need to talk to your bud about how he got to that point, what to avoid, etc.
I'll trade one of my products for one of his. cool!!

SEMA - hoping to be there to observe and attend some tech sessions, at a minimum this year

call him up ...352 873 1441 ask for Tom...he's a lifelong friend and would prob be more than willing to give some advice...Tell him Mark the smut peddler sent you

I work for Outlaw Performance Products/Outlaw Disc Brakes and I am the Dir of Mfg for the race division. We manuf billet racing brakes and dist. our product world wide through our dealer network. We have found that it is best not to compete with our dealers and try to run all sales that may come from our website or advertising through our dealers. If I have a customer that insists on purchasing from us I offer reconditioned products or "open box" demo units and sell those. Most people have no problem buying from a dealer and we try to help them find one that will service their needs. If you want more info on pricing or dealer requirements please contact me .

Todd Howerton
Outlaw Disc Brakes
[email protected]www.outlawdiscbrakes.com

Why not sell it to someone like 'Hitch It' or 'Drawtie' who is in the hitch, bike rack business allready. They are set up, dist networks etc. Easier than doing it yourself. They might just take it anyway--of course changing it slightly.

Here is a little inspiration for you. I just had a friend looking for some type of spot light to take with him to a bass tournament tomorrow nite. He said it"s a pain to load up at the ramp with no light"s. I didn"t realize they have nite tournament"s.There"s your market ! Best of luck.

I am also in the process of starting a small business. Here are some links I have found valuable as I have absolutely no business experience. I have a love for what I do and I am very good at it. That's a start. When I get further along, I will probably need some help too.

http://www.sba.gov/
http://www.myownbusiness.org

Good luck, looks like a great product. :)

thanks for the replies and advice. I will follow up.

Donzi, forward the pic of my product to your fishin buddy, I'll get him one. I do think the fishing market is the biggest by far, with the lights horizontal or elevated ( they can go higher than the horizontal position) the light gets right into a bass/walleye boat. And besides, when aren't fishermen loading or unloading in the dark (LOL) .

but my idea did come from my personal need. In Michigan, about this season, its pretty dark at 9:00pm, when we run for dinner and get back, it is dark. can't see crap at our ramp. When I tried the prototype for the first time. a couple fishin guys came right over and had to know where I got that light thing..... I think they will sell.

we are modifying/improving the design, lighter guage steel, shorterr center upright to not be visible while driving, and optimized parts and pieces. Two 55 Watt lights. if it doesn't have a TON of light, I see no benefit to the consumer, so the lighting will be good ( I working in advanced lighting at GM for 3 years. I will spec the lighting right.....)

CobraMarty, sorry it doesn't make the boat go faster. You idea is a good one. we are discussing this. We (Partner and I) could license this to someone, but if we do, we hope to make our own too. Our ultimate dream is our own manufacturing facility and be self employed...... but there are steps to get there. and we are planning so we don't blow this by not being able to deliver if it happens to take off...Here's hoping for the best


anyone....what would you pay for a lighting device that is similar in construction to a bike rack, slides over your draw bar, is adjustable in about 10 positions, removable, adds SIGNIFICANT light behind your truck for towing/ loading your boat/snowmobiles/ open race car hauler, etc.

would you pay extra for custom matching powedercoat to your truck or boat. multiple lights, what other extras????


Sorry for the long winded post , obviously I'm the most excited about this, (LOL) just hoping there is some interest by trailered performance boaters like me.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Nothing irritates me more then someone coming into my store for a price and telling me that they can buy direct from the manufacturer online for less. That or magazines are a MAJOR pita. Big no no in my book.

Takes away credibility with me. I usually don't make an effort to move that particular product anymore. I may be small, but a few thousand small dealers will add up.

Stand behind the dealers that take your company to where it's going. Don't take a dump on them when you go big time and warehouses start buying from you.

Buck
#183

I can see how useful it would be. Where do you pull the power? A long extention cord and cigarette lighter plug? A tripod stand would let it free stand for added uses. Great work.

Thanks for the encouragement Too Old. Cobra MArty, we have included in the patent a remote stand and extension for remote use. My current prototype connects into an auxillary 4 blade receptacle. My Ford came with a 6 point round and a 4 blade next to it. I call this the poor mans method, just plug the 2 pin pigtail from the TowLite into the first two pins of the 4 blade, (ground and taillight ) have to have running lights on of course.... I just unplug it after wiping the boat down and plugging my trailer lights back in to head home.

Other options include a backlit switch mounted in the cab and add a receptacle at the rear. (like adding fog lights), a third.... a "T" pigtail to take power off the single trialer hookup you have, then a switch on the TowLite. And the top line included in our patent documentation..... a remote switch (like keyless entry) with either of the aformentioned power sources.


buck183 and Pachang.. I agree. it is the American way. I cant sell 2000 of these my self. a fair % of a high volume is more than full profit on only a few. So we are looking for the better recommended Manufacturing Reps for this product and the WD's they call on.


Hey, Anyone round up Waterfoul at LOTO to see this prototype?.

Send me an email with some of the specifics of your Co/product when they are ready...I can see who does the buying for my Dad's Co. and see if they might want to check one out. They are one of the largest WD for hunting/Fishing gear in the country. Most places like Boaters World or West Marine buy products from them, as well as almost any smaller stores. Their main competitors are Bass Pro Shops and Wal Mart, Wal Mart beats up suppliers so bad on prices that they alienate many of them, however they sell volume that nobody else can touch.

I'll ask the old man if they have a specific person who does their buying etc for different types of products.

JTmiller

I will. thanks!!! that would be awesome!!!

it is great when offshore updates thier site, people search back and find stuff. notice my original post was almost exactly 2 years ago. we are selling locally now, we are patent pending, and working with a MAJOR manufacturer with brand recognition on licensing, but no commitments from them yet. we need them to mass produce. our small time process is too costly for mass market yet, especially walmart. but we are getting there. your contacts may help confirm what they feel the market will bear for cost. we have a powerpoiont presentation I coul dsend you.

I have learned a lot in the process about small business, taxes, and such
renting 1/3 of my building to my company, buing lots of useful tools and equipment and having fun with this. hope something big happens soon though (so does the wife, lots going out, not lots coming in)

Ramb

Hey Ram,

Sounds like things are progressing well, good for you. I always love to hear of people finding the thrill and excitement of self employment. As well, I love to see them learn...think about it, in 2 years look how far it has come....and also (please dont tkae this wrong) how far it has not come as well. It just takes alot of time with certain products and industries to grow and be self sustaining. I know first hand the patent process can be very long and tedious as well. KEEP GOING!!

Keep plugging away, if you make good decisions and work hard, success is a matter of WHEN, not if. SOunds like you are well on your way and what you have learned is invaluable. Good job, being is biz can be very challenging yet, very rewarding.

I might be interested in speaking with you about a dealer program concerning your product line. We are building our online catalog and I am always looking for top of the line products to offer our customers. As well, if you need some web solutions help, we can chat about that also...I have a web design, hosting, promotions and e-commerce biz.

3 of our latest creations...
www.hilsingermotorsports.com (our online catalog/store I was talking about is being built on this site)
www.agitatoroffshore.com
www.konabistro.com

ANyway...drop me a PM if you have any interest in what I have mentioned above.

Keep working hard and good luck :)

Allan

Holly $hit, my post here was right before I was leaving to get Married!!!! That was a little over 2 years ago and now I am single. Man if I could have those two years back. :( What a blast from the past. :)