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Purchase deal went wrong. Need Advice

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Old 03-18-2009, 01:08 PM
  #121
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For reference, I have no clue who Empire is, talked to him once on TBM years ago because he is local.

But I thought I would respond for two reasons.

As a general rule, us Socal peeps are down to earth, rational people. Don't lump us all into a group. I have heard crazy stories about midwest living (excessive drinking, kid neglect, wife swapping, $ scam artists, ect.). Do I assume everybody in the midwest is like that? No, so chill on the Left coast stereotypes.

Secondly, Mario at Socal Speed and Marine is my engine guy as well. A stand up guy, reasonable prices and complete honesty. He fixed an effed up engine rebuild for me after a few mechanics couldn't figure it out. He is just doing what his customer (Empire) requested, so leave him out of the conspiracy theory, just a hard worker building a business, supporting his family.

This just sounds like an unfortunate "used" deal, what matters is how the parties handle it, with professionalism. It is possible both sides are being honest, this could just be a bad situation....

good luck resolving this mess.......

Hold on there pal I happen to be a SoCal person as well.....I did not lump you into anything and I didnt bash your guy at SoCal S & M either...so now that we are looking eye to eye here....Lets point out some things.....He bought used engines without due diligence, bad move #1...second from the way I read this he had work done to them after the cracks were found, if so, bad move #2....if they weren't discovered until after the work was done then you have a lot of room for finger pointing again not slamming anyone as SC S & M has been around for some time now. When the finger pointing starts you have an unique crack as it is around the cylinder not up and down another point that will become a very critical point in the provability of the case that he was defrauded. So at the end of the day I dont think he will have a leg to stand on!!!!!
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:12 PM
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Pretty sure they were Bow Tie blocks
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:24 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by sean stinson View Post
Hold on there pal I happen to be a SoCal person as well.....I did not lump you into anything and I didnt bash your guy at SoCal S & M either...so now that we are looking eye to eye here....Lets point out some things.....He bought used engines without due diligence, bad move #1...second from the way I read this he had work done to them after the cracks were found, if so, bad move #2....if they weren't discovered until after the work was done then you have a lot of room for finger pointing again not slamming anyone as SC S & M has been around for some time now. When the finger pointing starts you have an unique crack as it is around the cylinder not up and down another point that will become a very critical point in the provability of the case that he was defrauded. So at the end of the day I dont think he will have a leg to stand on!!!!!
first off, the important stuff. Where in Socal are you? I am yanking my boat from storage at MDR and putting it up in Channel Islands (my kids miss the islands), I live in the west SF valley.

Second, you have me on the engine stuff as I have no clue. I was talking about general intent. I do not think Mario would be part of a setup to defraud the seller of anything, just doing what he requested by his customer. I must have missed that Mario already started engine work, then found these problems.

BTW, as Fred at Trick Marine (yes, i was a customer, got my chit though) has shown us, I am not insisting everything is clean and kosher here, just saying in my personal experience, Mario is as competent and honest as they come.

Can these motors not be fixed, how much is a replacement block?
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:28 PM
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I am confused to what any of this matters? I am also very confused on the accuracy of your accusations. I would also guess that your lawyer would have told you not to spread all of your accusations on this open forum, if you have even taken this to one at all. Better yet, take this out of the forum, shut up, and take him to court! The one thing that I can assure you is that the courtroom will be stuffed full of people that have had dealings with him over the years ready to testify. Good luck with your endeavors.



Now, back to those super chillers..........how did that end up working out?

They were sold but not to me like I was told. Actually I am somewhat glad the deal went south on me now after seeing this thread. Plus Wayne Schaldenbrand of Sunsation Powerboats called me on Monday and we are working out possibly installing and XRT wind fairing on my Dominator. So the chillers might get put on the back burner considering I would much rather have that fairing on my boat.
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:29 PM
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To clarify, just read the post where Mario started a rebuild on them. At the time, he outsourced my rebuild as well for ref.

So you have a point there Sean.

Again though, are these motors a complete loss here, or is something salvageble?
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:38 PM
  #126
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first off, the important stuff. Where in Socal are you? I am yanking my boat from storage at MDR and putting it up in Channel Islands (my kids miss the islands), I live in the west SF valley.

Second, you have me on the engine stuff as I have no clue. I was talking about general intent. I do not think Mario would be part of a setup to defraud the seller of anything, just doing what he requested by his customer. I must have missed that Mario already started engine work, then found these problems.

BTW, as Fred at Trick Marine (yes, i was a customer, got my chit though) has shown us, I am not insisting everything is clean and kosher here, just saying in my personal experience, Mario is as competent and honest as they come.

Can these motors not be fixed, how much is a replacement block?
I lived in the OC for years and still have a place in Palm Springs....Haven't been in the OC since 02.....I know most of the OG SCOPE members and have been around so if you want to check my background go ahead as matter of fact why dont you ask the OSO members if I am a newbie because maybe I really just am a rookie.....And again I never stated that Mario did anything wrong right or indifferent so lets get that on the table but I do know a few things about engines and a little bit about boats since lets not sit here and cross swords or dicks.....I will stick with my humble opinion that empire doesnt have a leg to stand on....replacement blocks are all over the place if they so choose to go there!!!!
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:40 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
For reference, I have no clue who Empire is, talked to him once on TBM years ago because he is local.

But I thought I would respond for two reasons.

I have heard crazy stories about midwest living (excessive drinking, kid neglect, wife swapping, $ scam artists, ect.).

...And all this time, I thought this was the norm

Jeff's a good guy....I doubt he's going to knowingly
sell something that's going to come back and bite him
in the azz.
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:41 PM
  #128
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A way to maybe rectify this is to find a set of good used blocks that are to both parties liking and replace the block bowtie blocks are a dime a dozen at the moment I am pretty sure but not certain.....
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:49 PM
  #129
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On a block that was already bored out close to the max, why would a builder touch the blocks with any tool until the block had been checked for cracks. Already being a 588, there was little room for error. If rebuilding any engine, wouldn't it be considered routine to check for any cracks before starting anything? What is the cost of magnafluxing a block (or however they do it)?
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:52 PM
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Mike wrote:
Let me clear something here. Mario at So Cal is an outstanding mechanic person and a as honest as you could find a person in this industry. The motors were shipped directly to the engine builder. From my understating and Mario's understanding, we did a leak down at Kinser Racing (Mark) where my mechanic Mario was involved as well. Mario has nothing to do with this, so let's keep him out of it. As I am reading more, the questions seems to be coming back to the engine builder. We started taking everything apart, as i had planned to do the top and bottom end job on the motors. From my understanding, the blocks had to be machined, due to the circumstances they were in, so the engine builder started and as they did, they noticed the crack, and upon that time, we checked the second motor and noticed the same crack as well, without any work on the second motor. If the engine builder had machine the second block, i would have a question on the machining, as i have learned the cylinder walls are thin. But since one was not touched, is a different factor. I am not an engine builder, nor a mechanic, just forwarding facts of what they had found out.

I do have pictures to show, but my link to insert pictures show http:// and the pictures are in my computer, so i am confused how to down load the pictures. (if someone could help on inserting the picture i will post them)
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