Some residents and businesses trying to ban personal watergraft on Lake George, NY
 

We are now going to have to fight an attempted ban on personal watercraft on my home lake.I agree that many people do not use their watercraft responsibly but a ban is wrong and takes away the freedoms of those who do use
their machines in a responsible fashion. The law enforcement officials should be requested to enforce the laws already ont ehbooks more stringently rather than elect an outright ban. Currently you must be 500 feet from shore to operate on plane. This is dangerous in and of itself as the maneuverability of these craft at idle is minimal. I argue that you should be allowed as any other boat to operate within the same parameters. We need to find a happy medium where both can co-exist. If anyone has had to fight this same battle and has been successful in doing such any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Shane

This is not good. We're next after the PWC. I'm sure that if this goes through they will turn their attention to those "damn loud, fast Cigarette boats." What can I do to help oppose this?:mad:

Morning Larry,

Did you get my PM? Nice chatting with you the other night. Thanks for offering to help. I think probably at this time we need to start with letter writing or e-mail campaign. I am just not sure to whom yet. When I know more I will let you know. Thanks again and I appreciate it.

P.S. Are you and Ronnie gonna come up and spend a weekend with us this summer? We would sure like to have you.

BTW Shane your PM box is full.

I read that, but when I went in there were no messages? Any ideas?

Okay, I figured it out. PM box is empty!

Dear Shane:

It has been my experience that it is a hell of a lot easier to fight proposed legislation based on "potential reckless behavior" (which I call discrimination) as opposed to enviromental "damage."

What lake are you talking about, and how far along is the bill?

I I were you, I would start by contacting all the marine industries in the area that deal with PWC. It is very possible they have no idea this is going on. Then I would try to get the support of the local law enforcement officials and Coast Guard. Having a record of accidents and fatalities is also key - especially if it is in your favor.

Then take it a step further. Contact all the marine industries in the area that deal with outboard engines (the 2-cycle thing) and tell them "YOU'RE NEXT."

Make as much noise as possible. Get on the local news and talk about the effect on the economy and people's moral due to the tenor of the times - after all, this is a form of relaxation and enjoyment.

Hell, you could even bring in a lawyer who could fight it based on Ammendment Number Nine which (I'll spare the quote) guarantees us the rights to "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Good luck.

Jennifer

lake george
 

Hey Shane do you know Dave White I remolded his house on the lake

Shane,

Fight it all the way, it would be a good idea to make sure the PWC dealers get the manf aware of this. I soo strongly agree their are already laws inplace to take care of the problems, we don't need anymore laws.

WILL:mad:

Hate to jump and take the other side, and to set the record straight, a Jet Ski was my first "boat". However, the industry and the operators (not all) have brought this upon themselves. Self-regulation and self-control for that matter is simply not going to happen. Hey, I went through the same thing with riding motorcross and quads, but not as bad as this regulation will be. I wish I can say the few ruin it for the many, but IMHO, the many ruin it for the few that actually have their wits about them.

I live right across from a launch ramp, and although idiocy exists in all floating manners, the worst offenders (and most numerous) are the PWCs. After witnessing what I see on a daily basis and also seeing a couple boats sunk and the PWC riders killed - something has to be done. I almost killed two people last summer after the rider crossed my path (I was doing about 50 at the time) not seeing me and then did a quick "180". Viva hydraulic steering. I used to be an advocate of PWCs, then tolerant, now I would not miss them at all. My fault or not, I don't want live out my life knowing I killed someone.

When surfing, we had them lauching on the beach, and I admit it was cool to watch them jump waves. That thrill ended quickly when they started buzzing the lineup and smoking us out with the fumes. Well that ended quickly, my younger buds in the water kicked the s@#% out of a few, then the Parks Dept. banned beach PWC launching. Again, self-inflicted regulation.

I'm not trying to piss off anybody, but any PWC owner that shows his palms to the sky and says "why me" simply misses the reality of his fellow operators and what his own sport has done to itself. Most of the problem are the failure of education, age, and the easy accessability. "It's just like a bike, right?) - until they find out no brakes. I saw this no less than 5 times last year when they plugged the dock at the ramp.

Hey I'm against drunk boating fishing idiots in channels too and the need for some form of boating license, but that's another subject.

Shane, your PM box still thinks it's full so I will post this here>

OK Shane, let's try this again. Morning to you to. Good Morning is an oxymoron. Snow is good - we need the water. Gotta fill the lake and all.

Every day is one day closer to getting the boat in the water.

Ronie and I would love to spend a weekend sometime this summer. Now if we can just find one we can both agree on. . .

This proposed ban on PWC is ludicrous. I am not a big fan of most PWC OPERATORS but people have to realize (on both sides) that they are boats, just like any other boats, and there are enough laws on the books to regulate their operation. Enforcement should be stepped up if we have a problem. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. WHere does this mentality come from that says everything will be perfect if we can just pass enough restrictive laws?:rolleyes:

Shooter: I agree with you to an extent. SOMETHING need to be done but I am not in favor of an outright ban. Lake George has probably the highest density of law enforcement per square mile of lake of any large body of water. We have sherriff's departments, State police, Department of Environmental Conservation police and Lake George Park Commission Patrol boats (Shane jump in if I have left any out). The capability already exists to adequately patrol and enforce existing laws. All that is lacking is the will. Many of the landowners around the lake own PWC and use them responsibly. The problem is primarily renters and to a lesser extent, short termers - people who come for a vacation and never bother to learn the local regulation. A couple of years back the local authorities cracked down on the renters and made them responsible for the behavior of their clients. Results: dramatic improvement. They have not continued to pressure the renters and the behavior of the renters has deteriorated. Coupled with ever increasing usage of the lake overall this has resulted in the current climate where some people are starting to see a ban as a resonable solution. I hope we can come up with an alternative because as Jennifer has pointed out, success in one area will only encourage these people to select another target. Guess who will be next?

hey Shane,
that's some bad news, I would contact the PWC makers I,m sure they have some literature and some contacts to call, I would have hoped that NY state mandatory certification would have taken care of this, but the time frame is too long I think it is 2004 when all pwc drivers must be certified. Yes hi-performance boats are gonna be next, local businesses would be a good source as well, take a way pwc and take away business type of thing.
They should ban idiots and stupid people.
we have to remember when some one loses a privilege, your privilege might be next.
I will be at Lake George in June for a Donzi get together.
maybe we can have a brew !

Mattyboy

SHANE.... I wouldn't get to excited... this same BS has been rumored for years.... last year we tried to track this bill down & it was no where to be found.... Problem is Joe Bruno, our beloved Republican Senate Majority leader, and summer resident on LG.... has not come out for or against? Get him to commit one way or another then relax, or panic....

Laster,

I guess everyones pm box is full.:confused: Anyway, let's find a date and make it happen. Great thought process and that is why we formed the Lake George Performance Boat Association, to combat the potential for restriction on high performance boats. Jason Saris is President.

Mattyboy,

Let me know when you are up. Would love to have a drink with you. I know alot of the people in the club. My uncle lives on Greenwood Lake and my parents still live in North Haledon. My uncle lives on the west shore just across teh border into NY. His house sits way up on a hill but he has waterfront property. His name is Jerry Wilson. Do you know him? He owns Haledon Auto Parts.

Sunseeker,

Thanks for the advice. We'll get right on it.

Remember, PWC's do not do any damage or problems in and of themselves. It is the IRRESPONSIBLE OPERATORS that cause the problem!

GRH, does the LGPC have the authority to do this unilateraly?

Shane, I joined the LGPBA when it was formed but never received any sort of renewal info. Should I talk to Jason when I am up?

No Shane I don't know him, he must live on Jersey ave or lake shore road, but if your down this way drop an email to me and a Donzi ride and drinks will be arranged.

Mattyboy

Shane:

Start right here -

Joseph L. Bruno, 43rd District, 909 Legislative Office Building
Albany, New York 12247, 518-455-3191

368 Broadway
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
518-583-1001

[email protected]

A complete list of all the NY State Senators is also on this site
http://www.senate.state.ny.us/
as well as the Governor and other officials and links and e-mail addresses to all public agencies.

Again, good luck.

Jennifer

Ok let me clarify,

I'm not into any ban and yes they are boats (sort of). The problems we see here are also "transients" towing down from our equivalent of the "valley". We call them Bennies here. I also ride right past Big Red Kawasaki (I still have a red Kawi - geez I'm getting old) with the PWC boxes stacked 10 high and deep. that sell directly to these guys and a few locals - you think they are educating them? I cringe.

Here, we have hardly any marine enforcement, everytime I see them, they have a PWC pulled over, we are overrun. The cops never patrol the ramp and the PWCs hold "races" in our end of the river buzzing the owners docks and waking everything out - with "No WAke" posted everywhere. I'd love to run at speed up the river, it would shorten my trip to the ocean, but I have respect for fellow homeowners equipment and property. Sorry guys, but there is a known F@#$ You attitude that PWCrs have around here. This is why I built a fixed pier dock with a lift - no floaters, they get abused. What can we do? Hey, I actually thought of buying one once again. But my distaste for them has grown.

Again, what are we to do? Keep yelling "enforcement" when we simply don't have the resources? Hell, I'd love enforcement, for idiot boaters too for that matter. How about hefty $1000.00 fines that most people who own PWCs can't afford anyway? Again back to enforcement. Would I be willing to spend +200.00 bucks to register my boat every year so that we can hire more marine police to chase these idiots around? That won't fly either.

Unfortunately what we are witnessing is the laws of economics and influence at work. I boat, pay huge waterfront property taxes (which I don't mind sharing), etc. Yeah, I'd like the ability to own a PWC, but in the priority of things...

Here is where I throw it back to you guys who own these things. Want to change my opinion? Here's what, let me know what you guys do within your sport to address the common problems. I often see this topic come up on the board (5th or 6th time I think) and I see anger outward towards enforcment, homeowners, or boaters. How about some of that directed at your own ranks.

I think they are fun as all hell, change our minds...

It all comes down to "personal Responsibilty" operating any motorized vehicle takes care and resposibilty.
My buddy has lake front prop. and has 2 pwc's he also has to small kids, when you visit the pwc are yours to take ,AFTER he gives the do's and don'ts, along with a quick ride along before he lets you loose, and it you mess up or fool around no more pwc rides as driver you go to the back! but I can rent them, here's the keys be back in an hour! It is also the way they are marketed, do you see the guys in the commercials riding conservatively. NO way, they're tearing it up, jumping waves,going nuts.
I believe in all boaters having a license or certification for all forms of boats, sail,pwc,ski/runabout,hi-po and if you mess-up you lose the privilege.
It is very similar to the ski-snow board contraversy, first they were not welcome at all, then they had special areas, now they are along side skiers, this was more an economic factor for the ski areas to include them but thru rules and inclusion ski/snowboard are ok with each other.
there are aHoles in boats too! sometimes just cause they can afford it! let me see for my first boat gimme that 22 ft with the 400hp engine.
I have no problem with any type of boat as long as the OPERATOR uses care and common sense.
Ban idiots and jerks!

Mattyboy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shooter


Again, what are we to do? Keep yelling "enforcement" when we simply don't have the resources? Hell, I'd love enforcement, for idiot boaters too for that matter. How about hefty $1000.00 fines that most people who own PWCs can't afford anyway? Again back to enforcement. Would I be willing to spend +200.00 bucks to register my boat every year so that we can hire more marine police to chase these idiots around? That won't fly either.


Here is where I throw it back to you guys who own these things. Want to change my opinion? Here's what, let me know what you guys do within your sport to address the common problems.[/QUOTE

How about this idea for the PWC owners who couldn't afford a $1000.00 fine - impound the boat for 30 days.

I, too think the more needs to be done within the PWC community.

I don't disagree that you have a major problem with PWC in your area. However, it is dangerous to generalize. The problem on Lake George is really minor compared to what you are describing. Our problem is we are dealing with an organized group who really want to return to the days of sail boats and wood power boats. We have to be constantly on guard against efforts to restrict us off the lake with draconian speed and noise restrictions. My point is please don't assume that your experiences with PWC are the norm here and make recommendations for US based on them. What is necessary to adequately address the problem in your area may be drastic overkill for us.

Thanks Jennifer. Hope we get a response.

No I don't know Dave White...

Laster- Nothing has been done so far nothing has been needed.

Sunseeker- Thanks!

Lester... I don't understand the question? Authority to do what unilaterally?

Check out "SPLASH" magazine. They're a PWC mag and are very vocal about PWC restrictions and they keep up with all the proposed/current laws and restrictions.

I understand your frustrations.
I too have PWC's and there's talk about bans and major restrictions in the central Florida area. We already have bans on PWC use on certian size lakes and various launch ramps don't allow them. I'm not sure If I'll keep them much longer. I don't use them as much as I'd like.

Hey, I'm really more on board with this than my retoric leads one to beleive.

Snailboats hate powerboaters here too and there is a fine line between PWC and peroformance boat.

Man I feel your pain. I love the lakes in NY but my gosh, that state loves to pass laws that stop people from having fun. I think the state motto is "If we can't tax it, let's pass a law to preventing it!!"

Good luck.

Hope to you some of you in late July and early Aug.

BANS ARE NOT A JOKE !!!
 

IF you think that PWC BANS are not comming and comming quick you are wrong.. I have a quad, a dirt bike, a PWC and a Baja, I have been discriminated against in every shape and manor regarding each of them. But in regard to PWC's, they are a blast to ride and alot of fun, at our local lake, the cops pull you over EVERY DAY, and it is HARRASMENT. A lot of lakes and rivers are banning carbed 2-stroke pwc's, so you need to spend about 10,000 to get a 4-stroke pwc or about 8,000 to get a D.I. pwc. What about 2-stroke out-boards,,, another case of discrimination.. The same cops that wave at me as I go blasting by in my NO-MUFFLERED Baja,,, are pulling me over every day on my PWC....There is not much that can be done, but I urge you to do WHATEVER YOU CAN... Soon it will be noisy, gas guzzling big blocks, 2-stroke outboards, and whatever else peopel complain about..

Most PWC rider's are un-educated, reckless and out of control,,,,, Because they dont know any better.. Luckily I was a boater for 15 years before I purchased a PWC and even then I still do stupid things, but at least I am educated.... Liscencing will only do so much,,, beating the **** out of some of the reckless ones would help too... LOL...

GRH, does the Park Commision have the authority to ban jet skis from the lake? Or will this require action for the NY state legislature?

I still say fight it, PWC have been on lakes and rivers for over 20years, if you don't like them don't live there. OK maybe that is a little strong, but you get the idea. The second you allow PWC to be banned, next summer it will be those damn loud fast boats, that bother me while I am eating pruns and cleaning my dentures. Then those damn young children playing on the dock, who stay up past sunset. Once you ban one watercraft the forces that age, will ban everything else. My 2 Cents

WILL

I don't like fisherman who fish around my dock or duck hunters, but I don't try to ban them.

The problem with PWCs on my lake, Chautauqua -Western NY, is that the damm things don't go anywhere. They stay about 100 yards or less from the shoreline and just buzzzzz back and forth and then do a few circles. When one kid or adult gets tired another takes his place On a weekend it is like having your neighbor run a chainsaw all day. It is extremely irritating! One of my neighbors once told me, "you have a loud boat but you get in and miutes later your gone, the god dam jet skis are here all day.

I hate the ****ing things but I also hate govenment regulation. No easy answers!

A couple out of ten users ARE responsible. My bud had one hit his boat brand new Sunsation 288 on day 5 of ownership.
In the bay they are not so bad, but on lakes and waterways they are a pain.

I figure if one every hits me, the guy will be dead after I kill him before the cops arrive!

We are coming to lake George in July.
I know there are always two sides, mine is against the wake jumping fly's.
Bryan

How about stand-up Jet SKis only, at least they need more skill to ride.

Hey (I'll get some heat for this) they are just like mopeds and ugly women.

Fun to ride but don't let your friends catch you on one! :D

Shane,

Having ridden and raced PWCs for over ten years now, I've seen this several times. Contact the Internation Jet Sports Boating Association= IJSBA here's a link. http://www.ijsba.com/ijsba/index.cfm

The dues they collect from racers and other members go to fight things like this. I have seen them get involved before, they can and will do a lot.

It's nice to see the boating community stand up for a common goal. When all I had was a PWC to ride, it was my understanding that anyone owning a boat hated us. I now feel this isn't true. It's especially nice to see this in a group I now call freinds.

As boaters, we have no more rights than PWC IMO. Like somone said, if they get the PWC, they'll get us.

Give em hell Shane. Let me know if you need any more info. I have contacts all over the PWC community that can help.

Buck
#183

Here is another place you may be able to get help:

http://responsiblerecreation.policy.net/home/

they are working all over the country to keep access open for PWC, Sleds, etc.

SunSeeker, I do not think this board will ever influence destiny, but stranger things have happened!

It would be great for boaters and PWC owners to have some sort of law that makes them all get along and be happy (but who would enforce it?), as I said I do not care for PWC's, but their owners do have rights too.

BUT until the unresponsible operators get a grip (never happen), they don't stand a chance, I believe VA passed a law last fall about NO PWC in state park waters..... and I am happy about that. "Honey give me the cell phone so I can call 911!."
Good luck to all.
Bryan

4000 OSO members are not the pulse of anything!
They are just a trickle to reality.
Good luck and don't hit my boat with a jet ski without a bullet proof vest! :D
May I ask your occupation?
Bryan

Bryan: True, OSO only has 4,000 registered members. Did you ever inquire as to the number of "guests." And, my profession - Technically, I'm a corporate spy; By tiltle, I'm an internet strategist. I also work as a part-time model, and I have been involved in politics for the past twenty years with former Congressman Downey, former Congressman Lazio, Ross Perot, Donald Trump, and the one and only George W. Bush not withstanding the work I've done on the local level and on enviornmental issues of which I've worked both for and against including but not limited to ground water protection on Long Island and the infamous continued errosion of Fire Island due to the Piping Plover - don't get me started on this one!

Shane,
I looks like you should enlist the help of SunseekerNY. After reading her posts, she seems very well versed in the Political arena. Good luck bud,
MD

Dude,,,, you couldn't be MORE WRONG....
 

With an attitude like its o.k. because " I DONT LIKE THEM " Just wait until someone tries to take your hobby or sport away because they dont like YOU or IT...... WHAT A DOUCHE !!! Jennifer, thanks and keep up the good advice...

I want to take this moment to thank EVERYONE for your input and especially thank those who have offered support and have posted links to sites that can help. I really appreciate the caring you have all showed. It really makes this site so unique!

THANKS AGAIN!

Shane:cool: