pro charger system
 

am lookinginto pro charging my 1998 26 sonic with 502 efi mag. looking at the m3 "sc" kit so i can run 89 octane fuel. does this kit come complete with gauges and all necessary hardware or do you have to buy additional items? any thoughts on this unit?

Don't forget about WHIPPLE! I hear they can do 89 octane now and you might want to talk to them...just a thought!

Here are a few questions that need to be answered:
How many hours on your 502 MPI?
If over 100 the engine should be rebuilt before installing the kit.
You will also have to stud the cylinder heads. The stock GM head bolts will not hold the cylinder head to the block when boost is applied. You will have to upgrade your head gaskets to Fel-Pro
marine head gaskets. The fuel system in the boat needs to be changed from 3/8 to 1/2 fuel line. After installing the kit the engine should be dyno tested to check fuel pressure,timing,exhaust gas temperatures at each cylinder,supercharger RPM and at what RPM is your engine making the most HP so you can dial in the boat correctly. You should install a vaccume/boost gauge,fuel pressure gauge and an engine knock meter. After all this is done you will have TROUBLE FREE Hi Perf boating with the ProCharged 26 Sonic:D The only parts that Pro Charger supplies with the kit is the kit itself.

WOW...Goodfella, great info! Never thought of all that, that is some really good info to know. 26Sonic should be glad to hear this!

Thanks! Whatdoin!
I have seen to many of the systems installed INCORRECTLY! Then Pro Charger gets a bad wrap:cool:

goodfella thanks for the info, but i need to do all this with only 5lbs of boost? i have 120hrs on motor.

IT"S ALL UP TO YOU! Do it right or end up on the end of a TOW LINE! with an engine with either a melted piston or an engine that looks like someone poured a chocolate milkshake in it:(

Goodfella is right, if you try to take a shortcut, it will COST YOU big time. Do the right thing up front and you will SAVE in the long run (time and money).

If you are having Typhoon set it up they will do it right. Andy does not want you coming back with a blown motor!(no pun intended) They should give you a price for the whole project. Charger, intercooler, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, boost and fuel pressure guages, carb and carb jetting, and fuel lines. These are the basics.Expect to spend around $7000. Head gaskets, dyno run etc. will be extra, but good insurance.

PROCHARGER GIVES YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED IN THE KIT AND WILL SUPPLY YOU WITH THE GAUGES IF SPECIFIED (FUEL PRESS AND BOOST) AT AN ADDITIONAL COST.
WE HAVE DONE QUITE A FEW INSTALLATIONS SOME HAVE OVER 450 HOURS ON THEM...WE HAVE NEVER CHANGED HEAD GASKETS ON THESE APPLICATIONS OR HEAD BOLTS OR EVEN DYNO TIME FOR THAT MATTER.......I'M NOT SAYING IT'S BAD IDEA ...JUST CAN'T JUSTIFY EXPENSE TO CUSTOMER FOR A RECREATIONAL BOAT
26 SONIC IF YOU FIND A PLACE THAT'S GOOD AND HAS DONE ALOT OF THESE YOU SHOULD BE OKAY.....ALSO I'D RUN 92-93 OCTANE NO MATTER IF IT'S 5 OR 7 PSI OF BOOST
JUST GOOD INSURANCE!

Hey JOJO,
You will be or should be okay? When 26 Sonic has issues with his
half ass install can he send you the repair bill? :confused:

ANOTHER OPINION
 

I agree with a lot of what goodfella says, 1/2" fuel lines, the gages, doing it right, the risk of a bad install.

One of the beauties fo the whipple system is that it is calibrated and computer controlled when you bolt it on and the timing, knocksensor, fuel curves are all there. Brand X leaves it to the installer to tune and that is a significant disadvantage. Dustin has Dyno'd his systems and it is well tested- you would be throwing money away to pull the engine and dyno it.

With regard to 100 hrs- I have to disagree- check your compression against specs, if it's good you are good. My dodge Pickup's (And my former vette and Goodfell's vette for that matter) computer lets me track average mph- usually 37 but we'll call it 40 to play it safe. Lets say i bought a new dodge, gas engine, towed max gross wt since day one (assume its a wrok truck) at 100 hrs you've got 4000 miles- working the truck hard. Now take into consideration that the marine engine operates at cooler water and likely oil temps (or at least as cool) allthough in a similar load pull environment.

Are you going to pull your truck engine and freshen it at 4000 miles? Let compression and oil consumption be your guide. If you really want to be careful have your engine oil analyzed once a year and they can tell you the health of your engine based on wear metals present in the oil sample. I'm talking about mild big blocks here- high strung engines are different. There have been several posts about 600 hr boats still having excellent compression.

You also don't need to pull heads and stud them and upgrade gaskets- At least not with the Whipple- if you think your self tuned system may detonate then you do have cylinder pressure issues. With that said- when I do freshen my engine, I will choose to invest in better alloy bolts and the correct felpro gasket and probably inconel exhaust valves- for piece of mind.

Don't take it from me- speak with Dustin or Andy at Whipple and you will get the real skinny. Good luck and happy boating.

Don't get scared off of Prochargers by these guys!
I've run one for two years at 5-7# boost & no problems. Normal maintenance & oil changes. You do need the extra gauges, etc. regardless of the system you buy. Don't be fooled. The shop that does the install is the key here. It should provide a turnkey solution for you. If you have a sound engine & good compression, everthing should be ok for recreational boating at speed. However, if your gonna race, be safe, build it correctly from the start. I have a 454 with a roller cam & rockers, no girdles, No problems. I run as high as 5400 rpm & 75 mph (gps), depending on prop. No one's kit is going to include every little piece for your boat or situation. This is "hot rodding" at it's best, a little boost, better fuel system, better props, better drives, more speed, want more speed, pull the motor & make it bigger & better, add more boost, more fuel, faster speed,,,,then whoops, the boat is too small, need bigger boat, bigger (more) engine(s)...it' just keeps gettin' better!! :mad: Dang it all!! that upset's me!:D

WELL........I DO KNOW YOU NEED TO CHANGE HEAD GASKETS WITH THE WHIPPLE I'VE SEEN ALOT OF BLOWN HEAD GASKETS WITH THIS SYSTEM (NOTHING AGAINST WHIPPLE OR DUSTIN I'M JUST STATING WHAT I HAVE WITNESSED I THINK THEY BUILD A GREAT PRODUCT WITH A VERY OEM STYLE FIT AND FINISH)
BUT TO TAKE AND SHAKE A GUY DOWN $2000 FOR THINGS HE DOESN'T NEED FOR A EVERYDAY RECREATIONAL BOATER LOOKING FOR A LITTLE EXTRA SPEED NOW IF THE ENGINE HAS ALOT OF TIME ON IT THEN YES....GO THROUGH IT FRESHEN IT UP

WHEN WE DO AN INSTALLATION WE TAKE THE BOAT OUT SET IT UP FOR THE CUSTOMER AND MAKE SURE THAT IT IS RIGHT AND I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH YOU RUN THAT ENGINE ON THE DYNO IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYTHING IS JUST PERFECT WHEN YOU PUT IT IN THE BOAT
AND YES 26 SONIC YOU HAVE ME INSTALL A PROCHARGER FOR YOU NOTHING WILL BE HALF ASS AND THERE WILL BE NO REPAIR BILL AFTER THE INSTALL.

LMAO!!!! So, take that !! ;)

JoJo- You could be charging admission to Blown formula for the entertainment value you are giving him:D

Forgive me for asking... The head gasket issues you speak of- were these on known professional installs and were all other variables left alone?

I only ask because i had also looked a boat with a Whippled 502- this was before i ordered my new boat and then Whippled it. This boat had an alleged professional install from a known local shop. The corners cut on some aspects of the install were obvious (Don't know what i could not see) and the timing, fuel pressure and heads had all been messed with. I would expect issues with this type of install but i had never heard of any where things were left alone.

I'm very confident that a procharger can be setup to work right- there is just more tuning left to the competence of the installer which makes it less of a bolt on for the average mechanically inclined boater.

Also- maybe know one ever told you this- computer manners- typing in all caps is regarded as shouting- If you mean it, that's your business, but i suspect you were unaware.

Happy boating!

I installed my ProCharger on engines with over 125 hours on them (them meaning twin screw). Now they have over 250 hours, and I have not had a single problem. The engines are stock, except for CMI exhaust, an Accell Supercoil, and a Mallory Soft Touch rev limiter. I always fill it with 91+ octane fuel. A lot of the talk about the internal engine mods come from the days when intercoolers were not available. It's your choice on which direction you want to go, but I just wanted to give you first hand knowledge of my experience.

Great idea..... I will get a tiny pulley for maybe 19# of boost out of my Procharger, the put in a "wye" pipe & duct it to the driver helm station.... air conditioning for those really hot days of August!!! Wonderful !!! Really tho', try taking the elbow off the intercooler on a Procharged system. The air is really cool even under boost conditions. This IS good.

Yes, I was entertained by the previous "warranty" issue. Goodfella is a nice & very helpful guy. I also believe his shop installs Prochargers. I don't know about Whipples. Anyway, I thought it was funny the way JoJo answered him. it hit my funny bone so to speak!:rolleyes:

:D and now that I think about it, maybe a second 'charger JUST for a/c.....hummmmm:p

We've done a good number of successful Procharger installations without ever going inside the motor, but I will say I am very conservative when it comes to the boost (3-5 lbs max). Never did any on engines that I would call tired. We also have some time on the dyno with a couple of the combo's. The experience was valuable, as it is much easier to learn the tuning under controlled conditions.

Even after the dyno testing, the one thing that is 100%mandatory (at least to me) is to verify the fuel pressure AT FULL THROTTLE in the boat with an accurate mechanical gauge.
Reading spark plugs is a black art and misleading with a blower as most of the time you add extra fuel to cool the piston.

As already pointed out, the fuel system is critical and real world conditions are differant than the dyno.

Bottom line is that if the fuel pressure is set per the installation instructions you should not have a problem.

I will say that even though we sell Prochargers, as pointed out by Cattitude I think re-mapping the ECU as Dustin does is a better way to control the fuel, but more expensive.

I would like to add to this thread by stating that the whole system of running superchargers is a difficult task no matter which system you run. There are precautions that can add insurance to your system, but nothing is foolproof. I personally have dual carb procharger, and it is a constant monitoring to be sure that you are not damaging your motor. Forget the idea of bolting it on and not having to worry about it regardless of which way you go, after all we are putting tremendous stress on the parts inside the motor. I can attest to JoJo's abilities with setting up blower motors, he is not a bullsh** artist. What he tells you, depend on it. He has lots of experience.
Goodfella I would not ride his a**, he is also a wealth of information and an honest person, certainly a tribute to performance boating.
Sonic 26 you need to really look at what your mechanical abilities, time factor tuning this motor, and intended usage of a your craft, before you make that final decision. I will say that dollar for dollar supercharging is money well spent in boating, if you have time to tinker with the finished project. Good luck.

I was the first to build a Vortec Intercooled kit in 1996. Before Procharger and Whipple and all the others. Tried to market it but was ahead of the game, EFI was too new to marine. I would not sell 'a kit' and would only do custom professional installations. Ran 11lbs boost, new fuel system, ignition, stock ECU, stock engine even manifolds. That engine made 744HP and 805+TQ. Now we had full guages, boost, fuel pressure, EGT, knock. I built and ran the largest intercooler you will ever see. It would cool the intake charge to WATER TEMP! Which most days was 65-70 degrees!
Intercooling and controlling detonation is the key. I have see many blown engines with guys who skinp on the fuel system and who fiddle with the boost and timing. Be satisified with what the blower manufacture sets the boost and timing at.
If you want more power then add exhaust manifolds, ported aftermarket heads, cam and displacement but don't forget the fuel!

I apologize !! To me, checking plugs & watching fuel pressure is second nature and not "extra work"...... but you are correct. the fuel system MUST be upgraded (which Procharger does) and regulated for the boost given (automatic boost compensated pressure regulation-included also). Always check the plugs at least every 10 hours (as recommended by Nickerson Performance). Not every plug needs to be checked every time, do it on a rotational basis, two plugs at a time (1-8, 3-6, 5-4, 7-2 for example) & then replace those with new ones. This way over 40 hours you have replaced a set of plugs & checked engine burn/wear 4 times over 40 hours. Start each season with a new set & check all at the end of the season. This method has worked very well for me as a "recreational" fast boater & helps keep the cost & time commitment to a minimum while still keeping an eye on the engine. :cool:

sorry to keep this going but i hate to be misunderstood i just feel the average guy can't afford to build up an engine and procharge it to boot that's all .....we all don't have bundles of money to spend so we all just do the best we can with what we can afford......i try to do the best job for everyone.....i don't know it all or even close to knowing it all........ but i was just tryin to help sonic 26 i know it can be a hard decision to make and i agree that controling the fuel through remapping the ecm is a better way (the way whipple does) .......i give the customer alot of different ways to go.....and he does what he can afford at the time....then later he can upgrade (ecm)(more boost)(exhaust)(head work)or even build up the engine (more cubic inches)I won't set him up on the ragged edge and turn him loose then your just asking for trouble and problems for the customer.

and again i think whipple has great product congrats to dustin and teague and everyone involved in the 144mph record run......very impressive!.....i know the knowledge it takes to attain those kinds of speeds and i respect that.

also i'm sorry if i was yelling before i didn't know.....i can't type worth a darn!

sorry i forgot to answer cattitude..... i can't say these were all pro installs but all other things were 100% stock on these engines......but that has been the only problem i have heard on that system all were 454 502 efi merc no 500hp.

Good thread guys! I have a question for you in a thread on the Tech Q&A forum titled "Question for intercooled centrifugal supercharger guys." Check it out.

Thanks,

Tom