jeff32

always 2 sides in a story. both together makes 1 ...

both persons are right at some point, and both may be wrong also... life is not always easy I guess!

marylandmark

Most of the time LOL is taken as "lots of laughs" or "laughing out loud"- never heard it used as "lots of luck" but guess it could be.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lol

PhantomChaos

Rock ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Croozin2

Actually, there's usually three sides to every story;

1) My side
2) Your Side
3) The Truth

Like you said, the story is usually seen a little different by each person due to their perspective. Hope this gets worked out.

Wobble

Good to see that you still have a sense of Humour.

Obviously the issue is more complicated than originally posted

thumper038

iTrader: (1)

So then there are 4 sides
1 My side
2 Your side
3 The Truth
4 The Judge's decision ?

Anarchy Powerboats

Good to see you on here Larry, wish it was under better circumstances.
Ken Kirkaldy

Panther

Surprised Runninhot hasn't weighed in here.

40FlatDeck

This is the funniest post yet!!!!!

RunninHotRacing163.1

This is for the 1,000’s of boat people out there who have followed this link.

All business owners/sales people/engineers/tradesman who read this can all agree that the “good, the bad and the ugly exist”. I have close connections with an attorney and they state the single biggest issue in court that exists is “he said she said”. Bottom line is getting it in writing.

The builder’s response brings this project back to the true beginning:

Several builders and options where reviewed before these motors left Chicago. The motors were running pieces with no mechanical issues other than low compression test values and potentially- as dyno’d- low dyno numbers. Yes the boat did run 147mph on its last running day before tear down.

This builder was identified through this site. I personally think this builder is highly competent and to all of those out there backing him—good you should. I personally did not choose him- not due to competency questions but simply “Distance”. I like builders and shops that I can walk into and look in the face and ask the questions. Call it personal preference. I also liked other combinations- cams, head guys etc… And in defense of the builder there are many ways to produce this motor and meet the horsepower goals. Getting two competent builders to agree an all items- line item by line item- would be like sending a hundred woman into a store with a 1000 purses and asking them to choose one. But- in the end it is the choice of the guy with the check book.

Now – back to the facts. I contacted this builder at the request of Runnin Hot to review the project and review his responses. While I am not the caliber of builders listed in these pages- my experience level is higher than some (how about a 557inch bow tie in 1987 – on the street and one year later in a boat).

While the builder had the right “answers” the right suggestions- one subject that was covered with him was – Runnin Hot and how to deal with Runnin Hot.

Runnin Hot is a perfectionist. Quite simply nearly anal as compared to most of us on what we consider “right/adequate” . I made that clear as a bell – restating it and restating it to the builder before the project started. I noted to him that Runnin Hot’s engine compartment floor is cleaner than most peoples house floor. When I work on his boat one of his kids pretty well follows me with paper towels and 409. I also know Runnin Hot not cheap when it comes to money. I know him to be true to their word- personally and in business. Yes – he is a very successful business man- a service business - which must mean he must be doing what he says he will do. I also told the builder in question that some builders and sellers in the past had not been as forthcoming ($$$ growing) as they should and that Runnin Hot was now gun shy of builders- to be careful.

My solution- a contract.



I had sent the builder a contract for him to complete and sign. It was to list all goods and services to be supplied and rendered.



Potentially start before thanksgiving

Heads must start making power by 4000rpm and pull through 7200rpm.
Extended run periods. Cam will be matched to your work.
Any additions to the above that requires $$ above the agreed to work needs written communication and agreement.


Larry's Engine and Marine has indicated experience and the knowledge to perform the agreed to task.

This is a piece of it. Other parts include hard parts, labor, and issues to be determined….



The builder did not want to fill this out – I think uncomfortable would describe the issue.

I made a second call to the builder to make it clear that this was not a document to make the project hard it was protecting Runnin Hot and the builder himself.

I sent this 3x’s asking the builder to fill it out and sign it. In truth Runnin Hot asked me to back off the builder that I would upset him. He was defending the builder. I backed off as requested.

But – the builder did send one of these back filled out. Essentially completing/agreeing to the verbage noted here. If you read even the short piece of the contract – the basics of the project are laid out.

He was told that Runnin Hot was a perfectionist. He was told how to deal with him. The builder chose not to follow the suggested course.

Runnin Hot later defended the builder – defending the tuning of the motor when it was realized that the carbs fuel curve had been changed- by a lot. The dyno time, money spent- “How can there be an issue?”

Runnin Hot was in the builder’s corner the whole time – the builder supplied his required parts, the dyno, the tune….. Other competent people’s opinions were put to the side in favor of the builders.



There are some very specific questions/queries that have not been answered by the builder from earlier e-mails- specific motor questions that have not been addressed.



Not getting into the crate, oil tubes, carbs… The morning of the run: Runnin Hot called me with a question of “what type of water to run” (could not find distilled that am) with the Methanol. Why would he do that if one he was going to run straight Methanol and two was not going to run it?



When the motors failed and the first parts started to arrive as replacements- I asked Runnin Hot who was paying for the parts- Runnin Hot said the builder. The builder was going to take care of the parts and Runnin Hot was going to take care of the labor. At least in Runnin Hot’s mind – things were going to move forward.

Until a $4000 bill arrived. Things went wrong then. How many of you would not “have something” go wrong then?
The builder has chosen to put the issue on Runnin Hot:

1) What would the cost have been for the builder to make sure the “system” was right?

2) Why is that not in writing?

3) For the builder this is over $4000. For Runnin Hot it is $$$$$ a lesson learned and a lost season.

4) Why is the timing changing?



As a note answering specifics from the builders response –

1) Some of the wrist pins had turned blue, the bottoms of the pistons were black and the piston manufacturer said throw all of the pistons in the garbage they had failed under the conditions. Was this damage the lack of Methanol only?

2) A 9:1 motor should not burn down at less than 5lbs of boost or less. The letter infers that all of your motors need the Methanol at 6lbs boost or more…

3) Supply the post that indicates the switches were turned off.

4) How did you do a part throttle test – did you reset the Methanol to come on at ……???

5) The carbs- either the new needles, idle screws where thrown on, the carbs sabotaged or something- the units were unbelievably out of adjustment. Also I believe the builder noted that the motors idled at 1500rpm- about right for a system that is flooding.

6) Detonation should be covered if the timing is not right and the fuel is not right: Who set those?

a. With the heat the pistons bottoms received and the heat the wrist pins received- what about pre-ignition??

7) Pistons- yes the current configuration produced by the builder is unique as compared to others who have quoted this job or added their opinion. Did not say wrong- just different.

The preponderance of responsibility lies with the business owner –not the client. That is also in court not just in this forum.



But – for all of you out there- it does not matter if it is $500 or $80,000. Contract. Contract. Contract.

How much, not to exceed, no additional, goals (speeds, cruising speeds upper and lower, rpm limits), who has responsibility and accepted responsibility, exceptions…



Several supporting documents lie in a software format and can not be transferred here including the contract.



To the builder- you were told how to proceed – you chose not to. This does not make Runnin Hot a liar, fibber, story maker. If he was the expert that you are he would not send you the motors in the first place (preponderance again). Bringing on the methanol earlier is a band aid. Actually – it probably would not have saved the motor for the record. Your business is going to continue doing well- you can use the pistons in the next build- you have only lost minutes of time on this site.

Some mistakes exist here- But again the preponderance of the issue lies where?

But lesson “learned” for all those involved and have followed this.

Runnin Hot will be running in a few weeks. No melt downs – I promise.

How much, not to exceed, no additional, goals (speeds, cruising speeds upper and lower, rpm limits), who has responsibility and accepted responsibility, exceptions…

In WRITING.