Comment:

Well my good friend Jeff should be a reporter as he misquotes the facts better than the National Enquirer laughing.

I did not give the drive back I own the drive and have a lot of confidence in the X-Power Drive.

The fact is I simply ran out of time to dial in the drive before my trip to LOTO. The time constraint forced me and/or compelled me to run the MMWorx because I already had it dialed in and know what it likes---the end result speaks for itself ran 118MPH and hit the rev. limiter at LOTO.

Now back to the X-Power drive we have figured out a lot since I left for LOTO over a week ago. The drive will work on a mod VP hull but the set-up is akin more to a V-Bottom than a true cat. Having said that I will resume testing this drive and I believe it will work successfully--- by this I mean dialed in completely.

All new products need testing example the NXT drive took two years to dial in and it still is being tweaked everyday. So let's not rush into unsupported conclusions on whether the X-Power Drive works or not as it is way to early to tell. I will let you know and we should be closing in on that X-diminsion window here rather quickly then the next issue will be prop selection.

Oh! and for the record Jeff I will state that if you put a single #6 drive on your boat you will regret it but your gonna do what you think is best. As your friend I would suggest holding on a little bit more the season is almost over and winter will be upon us no need to go rushing into anything hasty:):chill-pill:.

KAP

P.S. It is worth 35k if we get it dialed in and it saves you two Bravo gearsets a year in three years the drive will pay for itself and you can hammer it out of the hole instead of rolling the boat over and cringeing. As for the gimbal the stainless one should be about done as we speak 3.9 times stronger than HP Imco aluminum.

I wish x power luck with the 35k pricetag. The truth of the matter is for that price it should have been worked out before they sold it to the public. I have a scx which has held up to date and took 0 dialing in. I like the concept behind x power but the price is retarded. If you are paying for r&d in the 36k pricetag then why are all of the boats running them having trouble with setup? Good luck with the drive it looks badass and has great potential but the price should be around 20k not 35k

Im not sure its R&D on the drive itself, rather R&D on the setup and rigging. The drive itself, like a #6 or an arneson, is probably proven to take the abuse and power they claim.....but getting it to move your boat correctly is another thing. And all boats are different.

I agree 100% the drive is tough, but they need to help there customers with setup. If your going to sell a 35k drive then there should have already been testing done on single engine setups to help with x demension and other setup issues. If I was to buy this drive it better have some great results compared to the old setup. 118 out of 1400 hp in a small cat/deckboat is not really anyhting to brag about.

In this circumstance I think the bulk of the r&d work rests on the shoulders of RMP boats. For instance, there have been every possible combo of boat, motor, and drive that eliminator has set up. Tell them what you have and they can probably tell you how to set it up. RPM boats, on the other hand, probably hasnt built nearly all the combos needed to set this up without significat r&d. Im just not sure X power could be much help....but they should make a big effort if they are going to stay around. Lots of big power going to bravo boats that need an answer that isnt a #6.

I think that they build a cool boat and I am thrilled to see new companies like RPM come around. The boat runs 130 or so. That is a nice big number to be running in a 26' boat. It sounds like that they are pretty helpful and willing to explore possibilities in a really fast cat.

On the other hand, how big is the market for 130-150 mph single cats with #6's? Why would they want to drop serious coin to develop say a 150mph single cat so people could kill themselves and they could get sued? It is not like we see a bunch of #6 single Eliminators running around.

I could visualize my conversation with Donzi if I told them I was eating drives with my 850hp single ZX that runs 103:

Me:" Uh, hey guys, I know that I have far exceeded the power rating and speed of your hull, but I have found that the 850 is a great combo for your hull. The only problem is that it eats drives like crazy. Would you mind working out the details so I could put a #6 or an Arneson on one of your new 27ZR's"

Donzi: "You did what and it goes how fast?.....Ok....we will get back to you on that one....click"

Yep, he does seem to misquote the heck out of things and that is kind of important when getting the facts straight. Bryan Rose mentioned that earlier and I actually think it is pertinent to the discussion.

I also think that 2 weeks of testing is not that much for new products when trying a new option on something. He will spend WAY more than that doing a #6 conversion.

I still want to see something like this done whether it is a #6, Arneson, or X drive. Winter is coming and it is time for new ideas.

Ahh! sure is nice to read a post that hits the nail on the head. The R/D is the setup not the drive itself---is is figuring out the proper X-diminsion and what props does it like. The tuning window is real small in a mod V P hull and you can space yourself out of the window real quick and vice versa.


The bold section above is exactly what I was thinking 2 weeks is not a long time. We are getting closer each time I go out so maybe by winter's end we will have some solid data and conclusory remarks.

KAP

That is a cool project you have going KAP. Many of us will be waiting for the results. My hat is off to you for doing that. It takes guts but I think that you are on to something. :ernaehrung004: Bring on the spacers and props. At the end of the day if you are successful it will be ground breaking stuff.

Thanks, for the supportive comments. Truth be told being the guinea pig sucks everyone else benefits from your time and money and the pioneers never get credit for ****.

I totally agree with the end of the day stuff and it will be successful and ground breaking---but it doesn't happen overnight.

I have a lot of faith in this X-Power drive if I can set it up right--- it will blow everyone out of the water. Not many drives where you can go from a built Bravo to a Surface drive in a matter of hours.

KAP

Here is the 26 we did 5 years ago. It has a 980 whipple 140 mph. I took one shot a mounting the drive....

After flogging a Weismann drive for about 5 years, all we can say is "WOW". It is nice to know that you can still buy QUALITY. Thanks Pat.


pat W

Pat how much hp is that drive rated for?

Good question...... lots.:evilb:

pat W

Lol knowing how you build them I'll take that to mean 1500+. :grinser010:

Nice, that beast is evil looking. I would like to hear more about it.

WOW...I guess from here on out I will tell what I know...:angry-smiley-038: I was not bashing the Xpower @ all I was just not going into any detail about what you were running or about the design flaws of the drive for a cat, as far as misquotes goes, I did not try to quote you I was mearly just beating around the bush about the drive because I was asked to keep the secret a secret:kiss: Kap, you know that I would love for you to get the drive dialed in, and I hope you do, yes you will do alot of people a favor including Xpower.

P.S. Are you getting MMW to do your SS Gimble? I know that they sell one.

Remember, get that thing dialed in and come down to my neck of the woods I'll put you through your paces in the swamp, not all open water...I'll disapear on ya...:lolhit:

As for you XXXDumbzy, RPM are not building 26' cats to all go 150plus, this is my boat, Steve @ RPM is a friend of mine, and I appreciate all that he helps me with, plus the boat loves speed, 130 is no differant than 90mph. Steve really did alot of RD before he put this boat on the market, unlike other boat builders that have to come out with 5 and 6 bottoms, and they still arent right.

I am sorry that you don't have that personlized service @ Donzi, and that is why I didn't do a cookie cutter boat. Oh and I don't think Eliminator ever thought about putting twin 1600hp engines in a 33' cat, but Bob sure was happy when the boat ran 174mph @ DS.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRlVpcirIQ I also don't think that Glastron ever thought about there little 16' boat doing 125 either http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zgHL0mErk4 but there are alot of US NUTS OUT THERE you stay in your little lake with your little v and let the CAT MEN play with there BIG numbers....:kiss:

Dumbsy hah.

I am glad that you feel so good about yourself. Interesting thread and I made nothing personal. You on the other hand did. I said NOTHING bad about you and actually complimented your boat. I wished you well and meant it when I said that I wanted you to pull off something like you are trying to do. I am sorry that offended you.

Real men? Yeah that is me. I actually pay attention to what I am doing. You spout off a bunch of BS. Yeah, that was you who got laughed off Boatfreaks and backed down from a $10k bet when Thunderusone called you out. It takes a big man to do that. Hell, you did not even know what engine was in your boat. You first went around telling everyone that the engine in your boat was a 572 that made 1,200 hp. Hell, you even had an article written about your boat that had a bunch of incorrect info. I bet that made you feel important. You had to go back to the sexual predator that built your engine to get your facts straight. Then it became a 540 that made 1,200 hp with E-tops. When called out you would not back it up. That is a BIG IMPORTANT MAN you are there!

Ok, so I have a Vhull and it only does 103. Guess what? I don't care. That is as fast as I want to go in that hull and I have no intent on buring myself from a cost basis in a small boat. If I want to go faster, I will buy a real twin engine boat that is built for a set of #6's, Arneson's or Weismans and I will write a check for it. I enjoy my boat for more than just talking about how fast it goes. I actually had the balls to point out the shortcomings in my boat and manufacturer while I gave an atta boy and stood up for Steve.

Now you can go back to your BS and "BIG NUMBERS" and I will get back to the subject of learning what can and can not be done with a big power single while I enjoy riding around this weekend on my 64 mile long "little lake" that has 450 miles of shoreline. And no, I won't set any speed records but I will have a dang good time running around at a mere 60 mph. If I feel like I need to set records to have fun, I will go find another hobby. You can go on playing with your BIG NUMBERS. I am sure that someone in the audience will care and you can feel important.:Whatever:

Wow you are a numb nut arent you...Well I never backed down from the little bet, and yes I had a sexual pred. build my engine, and it is still agreat running engine with 150hrs on it, I have had nothing but good times with the boat and the engine. Oh and by the way, I am not trying to set any speed records, and that is not what this thread was about, I am just looking @ doing a drive that will hold up to the torque, and trust me I cruise just like you do...I don't go all over the place @ 100pluss MPH we take our little 100mile run from the Amite river accross lake Marupas and up the Tickfaw have lunch and return.

The atta boy to Steve didn't come accross that way to me, you came accross as a smart azz, if that is not what you meant by your comment then I am sorry that I took it that way, I am very protective of my friends. I think boating is the best hobby in the workld, I have other hobbies but none that bring me the satisfaction that boating has over the years...and cost me the most money LOL:grinser010: So you enjoy your boat and I will enjoy mine, which by the way the motor will be @ Precision over the winter that way everyone will know what the base numbers are, I have not decided if I am going to bump the power up, I believe Kaps engine with the 200ax SC dynoed around 925, maybe he will chime in and I don;t know what is @ now, John lamont said 1400hp on here I don't think that is right. I am very happy with the performance of my setup, if there were anything I would change, it would be going with a beefer drive the first time, but the MMW has held its on with the power going through it, and most importanly is stable as hell...:drink: I just think with the hig X dimension and getting the boat on plane is what is killing the drive, If I don't do a drive swap I am having RPM put some trim tabs on the boat this winter, that should help the drive out when getting on plane...I will keep you posted.

Pat,

You suggested your number 6 to Steve, that looks like the ticket right there, why don't we talk about that drive 5 years that a hell of a record, I wouldn't know how to act pluss it has that way cool factor:drink:

Numb nuts is not really an insult given your credibility. You have incorrectly stated your info in public on numerous occasions and seem to read and hear what you want. That is why you did not pick up on me mentioning that Redline makes a cool product and it would not really be in there interest to pump a bunch of money into R&D for a huge power single. That is why you were not correct about your own power and misquoted your friend about the X Drive. It is why you ARE incorrect about backing down from the dyno call out of your engine. You NEVER backed it up. I am glad to see that you plan to do it later but $10k was on the table and you passed on it so that once again shows a lack of credibility.

Feel free to throw more poorly founded insults at me if you like. You are just showing your true color.

If you knew anything that Kap and I discussed then you would know what I was talking about, I was asked not to let the cat out of the bag about him going to Loto with the xpower and then with all of the problems he was having with it Steve with RPM told me that he went back with the MMW I never talked to Kap, but I kept my word about keeping the drive under wraps. As far as the bet goes I could care less what the power is and as stated on BF I am happy with how the boat runs and performes, yes RPM builds a great boat, but as for a stupid bet that would have me pulling a motor out @ the begining of the summer only to boost some idiots ego about how much power I have is stupid, and I have had guys do the bet thing and at the end it was all a big waste of time, wouldn't pay, just joking, I didn't bet you, and other bull chit, so as for your little comments, you are welcome to keep them to yourself unless you have some input on the drive, because I could also say that you are showing some of your true colors as well...:point:

You were the one that took it off subject by calling me names after I backed Redline. All I did was question your credibility after that.

As far as the silly bet? It was made on a third party dyno and a third party would have been allowed to hold the funds. I dunno how that would have boosted someone else's ego if you were right all along.

If you were to keep the whole Xdrive thing under the wraps then you should have stuck to your word and said NOTHING. But you were the one that did not stick to your word and started in on the subject and the problems. If you like I can pull the quotes from this very thread. Once again, another strike on your credibility.

Oh yeah, you never really responded about why you told everyone that you had a 572 in the first place. I guess that you were not honest about that too.

Hmm, alot of name calling and BS from you. Seen that before.

And what the hell is so smart ass about this? Name one thing that is smart ass about this?

Hell, the only company that I made smart ass comments about is the one that built MY boat.

I don't see why this invoked a personal attack.

Read it again and think before you speak. You were the one that made it personal.

How did we go from a drive recommendation thread to a pissing contest? who cares how much power redlines boat makes? its a bad b??ch for a single engine boat and all he is looking for are facts as to what will or will not work.

That is right and he should have stuck to the FACTS. He is the one throwing the BS at me and throwing the BS about XPower drives. All I did was say something nice about Redline and infer why it might not be profitable for them to spend a bunch of dough on big power drives.

He, if he wants a pissing contest, a pissing contest he gets.

Jeff

We are all good nothing to fear I was giving you a hard time hence the laughing notation at the end of the Enquirer comment. I just wanted to clear the air on what is being said and what the facts were so there are no misunderstandings with anyone.

Plus, if I want to bust your chops I will just call you and bust your cahones on the phone:).

I'm sure you and ZXXXDONZI probably have a lot in common and would probably share war stories. I do not know him but he seems like a very genuine person and a performance boater at heart and this means a lot in my book.:angry-smiley-038:

Oh! you bet your ass I want to come out to the Bayou and boat with you guys. I hear a lot of positive stuff ie... a lot of hard core boaters in the Bayou. Uhhh! I will be bringing the Silver Bullet with the latest drive and your gonna **** when you see it.

I wish I knew how to post photos on this site quicker I would show everyone what it looks like on our boat.

Talk about evil, wicked and gorgeous all wrapped up into one X marks the spot. Ha!

KAP

P.S. Ok quit fighting and back to the discussion going Single No. 6 is gonna be a last resort option and get your checkbook ready as it will be sizzling when you get done. So practice signing your name at the bottom----laughing.

I dont know either of you guys but I have met steve and he obviously builds an extremely fast and very nice boat. I did mention the x power drive the other day to a buddy (john lomant) and I was blasted as to the cost. I dont really believe that the set up is totally the responsibility of the boat builder. do you think merc said "here you go here are our 700's and nxt drives" and offered no set up help? But what do I know I am a stupid Eliminator owner lol!!!

Oh no not a pissing contest...OK I Give lets get back on topic:nhl_fight: I think we have bashed enough, Kap is right we are all boaters lets play nice, and for everyone who doesn't know Kap...he did call, but didn't bust the balls...he is a great guy and thank god he has the money to do all the RD for the rest of us...:lolhit:

Kap you don't know how to post a pic...go up to the little paper clip and then download it to the site, just like you would an email, I want to see that bad mofo on the back of your bullet.....:drink:

I told Steve about my #6 dry-sump because of cost. You asked about a #6 so that is what I told him about.

The WMD drive (purple Eliminator with Monster engine) is a drive I designed for the military. It was designed for diesels so big gas motors are no problem.

Steve sent me a drawing so I will do a layout to see how everything fits. I will see how this drive fits also....

pat W:flag:

What I like about Pat's new dual prop drive is 1) shaft drive, 2) true surface drive and 3) twin props cancel torque steer. Lack of props might be an issue though, whereas he has plenty for the 6.

Sidwayzzz

Props are not an issue.. I am working with Throttle Up. Matt and Julie make a great prop. :evilb:

I deside what to try, talk to Matt and Julie, 2-3 weeks later voila testing and sending them back data on the runs.

pat W

Fair enough. Now I would like to know more about the Weisman and X drives.

I have heard of the Weisman and it looks pretty important. I would like to know what other performance boats have used it. It looks like a pretty stout product.

Gary Smith(40Skater Predator) uses Weismann drives. Weismann has won World and National Championships in American and European racing.

Predator (old boat) 1990 40 Skater. Last year at Havasu 1 mile shootout standing start 163mph. 178mph on his best day wide open. We ran 3 years on that boat. When we did Gary's boat it had a wet sump 6 and we converted it to our dry-sump 6 drives. We dialed in the x dim. ran 161max. Switched it to the WMD and moved the engines back 5 inches to compensate for the cg change for the 400 lbs difference in the drives.

We are also running them on the platinum 41 ft Vee. Twin turbo 1400hp 572 cid Gentry motors. We just made the change and now it is time to test. Raced it at the Rum Run but took a couple bad waves and quit after injuring the throttleman.

There is a shot of a diesel military version that we did but I cannot show the boat. Same with a couple other different military boats. Note the big props.

I designed my drives to exceed that capabilities of the drives that are on the market. That is why there is a surfacing dual prop drive now.

pat W:flag:

26redline,

Why so negative on the SCX drive? I know that the lowers eat speed, but an SC lower will bolt right up with no speed loss. John's boat was as fast or faster with a SCX upper, and a SC lower than it was before the upgrade. IMCO is claiming zero failures to date on the SCX.

I know of three people, including John, that have gone to a SCX upper with a SC lower.. all have reported posative results on speed, and an end to broken drives.

Do you have some additonal information that would make you not consider this option?

Chris

P.S. I think that adding tabs to the boat to help it get on plane would be a good idea
P.P.S. I am also pretty sure that with some machining by Max Machine, you could use their lower on an SCX upper

I was never negative about the SCX drive, just that it is rated for 900hp, I simply said that I might as well keep what I have, trust me the SCX is an option, and yes I would like my MMW to mate up to the SCX, my onlyconcers are how does the internal drive shower ofthe SCX get its water and would the MMW lower work, I don't know if the MMW upper shaft is an IMCO, I would think it is.

I am hoping that Pat and Steve will come up with something on the drive that was on Gary Smith's old Predator I really think that would be the chitssss:drink:

The scx shaft is different then the mmw. I already investigated that combo

IMCO makes a conversion vertical shaft, that is installed into the lower unit of either a SC lower or a bravo lower. If MMW was willing to do some machining on their lower, it would probably work with their unit also.

The weakest link on all of these drives (IMCO SC, MMW, Teague, Bravo XR, etc.) has always been the upper gear set. They all use mercury gears. I believe that MMW treats the gears (cryo etc.), but the fact is, they just are not strong enough gears. MMW and IMCO make great upper cases to support the gear set, which helps, but in the end, you have a greatly supported set of mercury gears, which are just too small and weak for the power being supplied to them.

The XR upper gears are 3+ inches in diameter. The SCX upper gears are 5+ inches in diameter. The SCX has a built in drive shower and oil cooler. Your weak link now becomes the lower gears if using a standard size lower. IMCO is working on a re-design of the shape of the SCX lower in order to make it more efficient while using larger gears. The oil cooler in the SCX upper, should help the SC lower run cooler and extend lower gear life. Lower gear failure is not typically the issue with bravo style drives. It is the uppers that usually fail.

For some unknown reason, all three people I know that have switched to an SCX upper, with a SC lower, have gained about 1 mph.

On a different note; Eliminator is supposedly gaining 7-10 mph on their twin engine cats by switching from XR style drives to the Illmore Indy drives because of the greater efficiency of the Indy drives. Illmore is going to be realeasing 900 and 1100 horsepower supercharged engines, that they plan on mating to this drive. You might want to check with Elliminator and Illmore about using this drive in a single engine cat application.

If money was not an object, I would go with a Weismann or Arnesen drive. I would not go with a #6. The #6 is just too heavy and inefficient... especially on such a finely tuned boat. I Love the RPM cat! Steve did an awsome job in its design and construction.

Just my rambling thoughts.

Chris