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42' Epoxy OL, your opinion?

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Old 01-16-2010, 01:54 PM
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You bring up a question I have Uncle Dave.... For some reason I was under the impression Epoxy does not hold its strength/structure as well as glass under UV and high temperatures? (ie. dark boat in hot s. florida sunshine).
If it is post cured properly no problem.remember some plastics store heat as Bonds,

that is why a room temperature cure can lead to cosmetic problems down the road.
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:05 PM
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You bring up a question I have Uncle Dave.... For some reason I was under the impression Epoxy does not hold its strength/structure as well as glass under UV and high temperatures? (ie. dark boat in hot s. florida sunshine).

Ive heard that as well, but havent seen any data or empirical testing to indicate the hull is compromised.

I dont think the actual hull strength gets compromised, but the finished surfaces dont hold up.

Many manufacturers will build your boat either way and in race boat- go for it. You are going to cover it all up with vinyl stickers anyway. Who cares about cosmetic look a decade from now?

Its not expected to look great in ten years.

In a pleasure boat you buy own, make 15 years of payments ob and show off - even guys that build both will tell you if you want it to look good in ten years- go glass.

This is the info Ive been given.

UD
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:07 PM
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If it is post cured properly no problem.remember some plastics store heat as Bonds,

that is why a room temperature cure can lead to cosmetic problems down the road.

I can never get specific heat data on OL's oven.

i know its not an Autoclave, but how hot does it get?

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Old 01-16-2010, 02:14 PM
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Default a prior response to that question.

When this question was asksed in an earlier thread regarding the layup of the 42ft Schiada- Lee had this to say RD asked permission to quote him.





The Schiada is 100% vinylester with quad-directional knitted structural skins, Carbon Capped Balsa Stringers, Cabon Capped balsa bulkheads, vacuum bagged 1" to 1.25" balsa core throughout entire boat including cockpit. She is as light, stiff, and strong as she can be short of going the pre-preg, epoxy carbon route. We opted not to go Epoxy as vinylester provided better heat distortion numbers without an overly excessive weight penalty. On the west coast, our boats routinely see 200+ degree surface temps on dark colors during our yearly 125+ degree summer heatwaves out on the desert lakes. As soon as we see temps greater than what the laminate sees in the oven, we get "post-postcuring". On a race boat, epoxy is the only way to go. We don't know a racer alive who wouldn't trade some epoxy heat distortion and fabric/core print for a lighter, faster, stronger boat. Our customer base, however, wouldn't stand for the cosmetic finish a "desert" summer or two down the road. When you look into the side of a CNC tooled pleasure boat, all you should see is yourself looking back. And when you look into that hull side 10 years down the road, all you should see is 10 more years on yourself.

With that said, would be happy to build epoxy boats for anyone who wants them as long as they understand the downstream cosmetic implications, particularly for those in more temperate climates.

- Lee
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:16 PM
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I can never get specific heat data on OL's oven.

i know its not an Autoclave, but how hot does it get?

UD
The oven will get above the resin manufacturers optimum cure temp. We can adjust the temp depending on the aplication. The oven also ramps the temperature up slowly and cools off slowly as well.
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:21 PM
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The oven will get above the resin manufacturers optimum cure temp. We can adjust the temp depending on the aplication. The oven also ramps the temperature up slowly and cools off slowly as well.

Can the issues Lee speaks of ever happen then?

If OL has this problem permanently solved then Epoxy seems to have little to no downsides.


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Old 01-16-2010, 02:29 PM
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I don't know or care to comment on the information that Lee Speaks of, but I know that the Epoxy Resins and laminates that OL uses are extensively researched and have years of historical data and R & D.

Vinylester also has a tendence to break down over a prolonged period of time, where the epoxy does not have any of those fatiguing traits. We have built many Dark Colored Boats, and many of them reside in Hot West Coast and Middle Eastern Climates, and do not display any major cosmetic flaw, and certainly no structural problems.

But everyone is entiteled to an opinion, but I am willing to rely on the facts.
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:36 PM
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I was using the best vinylester system at the time a Dow 470-36 for Boats, Tooling ,well every thing and without baking things can still be iffy you never reach full cure without it.
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:42 PM
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I don't know or care to comment on the information that Lee Speaks of, but I know that the Epoxy Resins and laminates that OL uses are extensively researched and have years of historical data and R & D.

Vinylester also has a tendence to break down over a prolonged period of time, where the epoxy does not have any of those fatiguing traits. We have built many Dark Colored Boats, and many of them reside in Hot West Coast and Middle Eastern Climates, and do not display any major cosmetic flaw, and certainly no structural problems.

But everyone is entiteled to an opinion, but I am willing to rely on the facts.

What are the relative costs differences in each type of layup? Is one a Lot more expensive?

UD
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:57 PM
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Don't forget, epoxy boats ride a little harder also.
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