42' Epoxy OL, your opinion?
 

I've been on the 42' Legacy (glass) with a pair of 1050's and thought it was a great ride....

How does it compare to the 42' Legacy, epoxy with a pair of 1075's. I've heard some good/bad... An honest assessment (not sure if that's possible:lolhit:) would be greatly appreiacted.

Also, how does it compare to some of the other stand-up pleasure models like the 46' etc.?

Trying to get some info for a friend, your thoughts or recommendations are greatly appreciated!:coolcowboy:

we'll have an answer for ya in four or five years :D

Classic!:drink:

From what the builders that use it tell me - epoxy tends to post cure and although light and strong and ideal for ultimate performance- tends to have cosmetic implications down the road.

As one guy put it, when you look at the side of your boat in ten years all you should see is ten more years on yourself in the reflection.


U.D.

TTT....

Anyone own a 42' vinylester and epoxy or a 42' and 46?

OL's are post cured in an oven, and then longboarded to get any imperfections out.

TTT, any other opinions?

I like glass, better on my a$$

Yes I know.

Outerlimits has a fantastic resin infusion process, and then bakes them in an oven. They are first rate.

The epoxy is the issue not anything outerlimits does or doenst do.

my understanding is that the oven itself is not an autoclave, but more an oven so its cure temp is limited.

In extrem heat say like in arizona dark colors in the summer time can actually cause "post Curing" well on later in the boats life. The postcuring when the dark hot spots hit 230+ causes cosmetic issues after an extended period of time.

This doenst effect the structure of the boat you still get a super light strong hull, but there are cosmetic implications later.

The boats as they leave OL are perfect its just the material has plusses and minuses.

the epoxy boat will be lighter and stronger than the glass, but 10, 20, 30 years from now is liekly to look rougher.

This is my understanding from many many builders Ive spoken to.


UD

You bring up a question I have Uncle Dave.... For some reason I was under the impression Epoxy does not hold its strength/structure as well as glass under UV and high temperatures? (ie. dark boat in hot s. florida sunshine).

If it is post cured properly no problem.remember some plastics store heat as Bonds,

that is why a room temperature cure can lead to cosmetic problems down the road.

Ive heard that as well, but havent seen any data or empirical testing to indicate the hull is compromised.

I dont think the actual hull strength gets compromised, but the finished surfaces dont hold up.

Many manufacturers will build your boat either way and in race boat- go for it. You are going to cover it all up with vinyl stickers anyway. Who cares about cosmetic look a decade from now?

Its not expected to look great in ten years.

In a pleasure boat you buy own, make 15 years of payments ob and show off - even guys that build both will tell you if you want it to look good in ten years- go glass.

This is the info Ive been given.

UD

I can never get specific heat data on OL's oven.

i know its not an Autoclave, but how hot does it get?

UD

a prior response to that question.
 

When this question was asksed in an earlier thread regarding the layup of the 42ft Schiada- Lee had this to say RD asked permission to quote him.





The Schiada is 100% vinylester with quad-directional knitted structural skins, Carbon Capped Balsa Stringers, Cabon Capped balsa bulkheads, vacuum bagged 1" to 1.25" balsa core throughout entire boat including cockpit. She is as light, stiff, and strong as she can be short of going the pre-preg, epoxy carbon route. We opted not to go Epoxy as vinylester provided better heat distortion numbers without an overly excessive weight penalty. On the west coast, our boats routinely see 200+ degree surface temps on dark colors during our yearly 125+ degree summer heatwaves out on the desert lakes. As soon as we see temps greater than what the laminate sees in the oven, we get "post-postcuring". On a race boat, epoxy is the only way to go. We don't know a racer alive who wouldn't trade some epoxy heat distortion and fabric/core print for a lighter, faster, stronger boat. Our customer base, however, wouldn't stand for the cosmetic finish a "desert" summer or two down the road. When you look into the side of a CNC tooled pleasure boat, all you should see is yourself looking back. And when you look into that hull side 10 years down the road, all you should see is 10 more years on yourself.

With that said, would be happy to build epoxy boats for anyone who wants them as long as they understand the downstream cosmetic implications, particularly for those in more temperate climates.

- Lee

The oven will get above the resin manufacturers optimum cure temp. We can adjust the temp depending on the aplication. The oven also ramps the temperature up slowly and cools off slowly as well.

Can the issues Lee speaks of ever happen then?

If OL has this problem permanently solved then Epoxy seems to have little to no downsides.


UD

I don't know or care to comment on the information that Lee Speaks of, but I know that the Epoxy Resins and laminates that OL uses are extensively researched and have years of historical data and R & D.

Vinylester also has a tendence to break down over a prolonged period of time, where the epoxy does not have any of those fatiguing traits. We have built many Dark Colored Boats, and many of them reside in Hot West Coast and Middle Eastern Climates, and do not display any major cosmetic flaw, and certainly no structural problems.

But everyone is entiteled to an opinion, but I am willing to rely on the facts.

I was using the best vinylester system at the time a Dow 470-36 for Boats, Tooling ,well every thing and without baking things can still be iffy you never reach full cure without it.

What are the relative costs differences in each type of layup? Is one a Lot more expensive?

UD

Don't forget, epoxy boats ride a little harder also.

Im still trying to determine what the held view is on the upsides and downsides of epoxy vs vinylester.

Wish I had the personal cash to buy both and see.
Plus Im out of room for a 3rd boat.


UD

That stiffness that you feel is the Epoxy not flexing like VE, which in turn will fatigue the VE and lead to stress cracks and or failure. It is a compromise I am willing to deal with.

I'd buy one if I could.

I like the idea of an epoxy boat. However, I would like too see how it holds up over the years. I was in a OL epoxy boat and it rode very nicely. I woud like to see the new 36 when it comes out.

Is flex a good thing or a bad thing in a laminate???

In some other designs (not boats) I believe the flex is good thing because it will flex before it breaks and if there's less flexibility it can break?

I have owned Correct Crafts for years now. They have been using epoxies for probably 15 years with I dare say less attention to detail than O.L. I saw a 98 that I owned not too long ago and the glass looked perfect. No print through etc....I would not be scared of epoxy having seen this. It is amazing how easy for a drill bit to run through.

Paul, the 36 will be a hit when completed!

Well, let's see it!! Completion date? I can't wait anymore. :D

Soon

Maybe I will just take a ride to RI.

Indeed. Teague tested a 42 and he said it was like driving a block of concrete. :eek:

I've been in them and its not like that at all.

As far as the appearence goes, the gelcoat on the deck of a dark colored boat will expand, buckle and crack eventually on almost any boat. I've seen it on everything from a Wellcraft to a Skater. Stick to lighter colors if you want to avoid this problem.

I have also.. The boat is one of the finest made, does many things great, better than 90% out there... it does so well cause they are light, and built like a brick sh!t house.. the penalty is a stiffer ride vs the vinylester boats. It all depends on what you're looking for, intended purpose of boat built, and pocket book. Would I own an OL..sure..but prefer Mike's glass boats better with some of the new technology.

Does OL build any new boats out of VE? I know they build both glass and carbon, but do they switch resins as well?

that would be a question for Fred.. I un-like most, prefer a softer ride and am not interested in getting the last mph out of my boat. In return I'm well aware that the ride I got from Mike and Fred was as good as it get's at 80+mph in 4-5's could not be achieved in a glass boat. It helped that Mike was driving also...OMGSMP. LOL

Speaking of Epoxy boats... They all seem to be painted and scratch easily, why? Compared to a VE or Poly boat they have gelcoat... Do they make a Epoxy gelcoat if someone doesn't want to paint the boat? I've seen quite a few Epoxy boats 2-3 years old and they're going for paint touch-ups, fade spots and/or clearcoat fixes.

i have only been in a 39gtx.. very stiff and noisy under-way.. sounded like the bottom was comming apart.. something you get use to i guess.

Yes there are Epoxy Gelcoats and they are easy to use but they are in a off white, Personally I like Paint, Awlgrip for one,

it is this way with Paint 2-4 Mills gets you covered, Now gelcoat at 12 mills there are still shadows so we spray between 18 and 22 wet with Production Material to get the proper coverage.

Now that said It does provide a Durable surface but it carries a huge weight penalty when you include the check or skin out mat. and since it is chemically bonded (in the ester world) if it cracks guess what? the laminate can be damaged as well.