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Surface Drives on Cats, Why Not???

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Old 09-06-2010, 03:13 PM
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Then why was Pat working with Victory team on exactly that??
Pat was working with the Victory team on what---the Number Six Drive from Mercury?

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I was racing with SBI and USO when the SSM#6 got dry sumped, and I recall that info (Weismann, this is who Mercury Racing contracted to design the dry sump system for the SSM#6.) coming from MR, but I guess anything is possible.

After changing (fixing) the set-up last summer 2009, it became real dependable. My Skater has about 125 hours on it, and once the FMO (Ft Myers Offshore) season starts up (Oct-April), I will put some hours on her. Each run for me is an average of 150 miles.
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I recall Fred Keikhaefer putting out a press release on what the Weismann involvement was with the Number six drive. The drive was designed by Fred at his Aeromarine business which was bought out by Mercury. It was a wet sump drive at the time.

The Weismann involvement was how to dry sump the drive NOT design it completely. Also the No. 6 drive is not a complete dry sump drive if I recall the lower is still in oil with no spray bar or remote tank.

Anyway that is grinding the axe there have been numerous threads on this topic.

What did you change on your setup did you go up...increase set back or was it simply prop changes.

We will be heading out in two days I'm gonna put some hours on the meter real quick. I'm also gonna try my hand at video here real quick.

KAP
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kap328 View Post
Pat was working with the Victory team on what---the Number Six Drive from Mercury?



Comment:

I recall Fred Keikhaefer putting out a press release on what the Weismann involvement was with the Number six drive. The drive was designed by Fred at his Aeromarine business which was bought out by Mercury. It was a wet sump drive at the time.

The Weismann involvement was how to dry sump the drive NOT design it completely. Also the No. 6 drive is not a complete dry sump drive if I recall the lower is still in oil with no spray bar or remote tank.

Anyway that is grinding the axe there have been numerous threads on this topic.

What did you change on your setup did you go up...increase set back or was it simply prop changes.

We will be heading out in two days I'm gonna put some hours on the meter real quick. I'm also gonna try my hand at video here real quick.

KAP
Either way, my point in referencing Weismann and the SSM#6 dry sump was, that the teams at places like Arneson, Weismann, Ilmor and some others have great engineering, awesome products and supper support. I think they should be considered when building or upgrading hi-perf boats.

FYI: The next boat I build, will include discussions with Rik from Arneson, as well as some non MR power options.
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kap328 View Post
Pat was working with the Victory team on what---the Number Six Drive from Mercury?



Comment:

I recall Fred Keikhaefer putting out a press release on what the Weismann involvement was with the Number six drive. The drive was designed by Fred at his Aeromarine business which was bought out by Mercury. It was a wet sump drive at the time.

The Weismann involvement was how to dry sump the drive NOT design it completely. Also the No. 6 drive is not a complete dry sump drive if I recall the lower is still in oil with no spray bar or remote tank.

Anyway that is grinding the axe there have been numerous threads on this topic.

What did you change on your setup did you go up...increase set back or was it simply prop changes.

We will be heading out in two days I'm gonna put some hours on the meter real quick. I'm also gonna try my hand at video here real quick.

KAP
Pat was working on both the drysumps and transmissions for the big Sheik as I understand it. Who in the hell said anything about the drives DESIGN??????
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:46 PM
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Either way, my point in referencing Weismann and the SSM#6 dry sump was, that the teams at places like Arneson, Weismann, Ilmor and some others have great engineering, awesome products and supper support. I think they should be considered when building or upgrading hi-perf boats.

FYI: The next boat I build, will include discussions with Rik from Arneson, as well as some non MR power options.
You can add IMCO to that list.
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:40 PM
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Either way, my point in referencing Weismann and the SSM#6 dry sump was, that the teams at places like Arneson, Weismann, Ilmor and some others have great engineering, awesome products and supper support. I think they should be considered when building or upgrading hi-perf boats.

FYI: The next boat I build, will include discussions with Rik from Arneson, as well as some non MR power options.
Hey AppSysCons:

I agree with what you wrote above.

I have also found great prototype products where the inventor or the company never really completed the development stages for X or Y reasons.

In addition, I have had several experiences wherein the company failed to follow through with support on really great surface drive systems. You can have great engineering and an awesome product but it don't mean squat. If you do not have customer support that is business 101. I can recall during the testing period of a system and all I could think of was this is going to transform the marine drive industry...then a year later I woke up and it was just a short lived dream/illusion.

In the big picture of things the cat hull is the perfect platform for surface drives in twin engine configurations. [Note: I exculuded the single engine boats as they are in a class unto themselves]

The pros are all there for twin engine inboard cats. I cannot see any cons to setting up a go fast catamaran hull any other way. One need only look at the big diesels to go fast turbines the drive of choice for most performance boaters is the surface drive.

KAP

P.S. I love outboards but the sound of a BBC is far sweeter from docks to fly-bys.
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:38 PM
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Yeah the best guy to talk to is Kevin Cooper he spent a ton of time on a 2750 Lavey Craft race boat in Super V Lite. The drive was a NXT2 a cambered skeg single engine surface drive V-Bottom.
NXT2 on a single engine V bottom.... Not the best of ideas...
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:05 AM
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NXT2 on a single engine V bottom.... Not the best of ideas...
Kevin said he fixed the crabbing problem. I read the article. Was he wrong??
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:03 AM
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I have a 32B Skater with Arnesons. They work extremely well. No disadvantage. Rik stands behind Arneson, and its quality. Arneson and BPM both use a stainless prop shaft. The number 6 is a monel steel shaft with a chrome plated coating. You see the coating cracking off and taking out the seal is the norm on the 6. You need to replace the prop shafts or splay weld a stainless collar.

The only disadvantage with the surface drive is getting the motor low enough in the boat.
a friend just spent a lot of money rebuilding a six drive p shaft leak killed the drive, rik has drop boxes so you can leave your motor where it is, thats what my friend is looking at. and prices are better than a six for a #7 arneson, not sure on the price of #8 arneson but remember RIK gives you a complete drive and full steering including the helm in his set up. he gave me a great price on a # 7 back when I was buying the konrad ace. I hope he chimes in and explain better than me, its a GREAT drive for big hp.

Last edited by AIR TIME; 09-07-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:24 PM
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Default Mecury Shaft Drive?

Why has mercruiser not come out with their own version of a shaft drive? It seems with their resources and the fact that its a pretty simple design, they could gain customers instead of losing them...
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:02 PM
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Why has mercruiser not come out with their own version of a shaft drive? It seems with their resources and the fact that its a pretty simple design, they could gain customers instead of losing them...
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No money in it! Why because a quality surface drive keeps right on running for hours with little if any breakage.

Mercury makes more money selling parts for Bravos than they ever do for the entire unit with motor. If you argue this point look at how many Bravo build shops are in business to this day.

It is called the parts annuity plan...to be a subscribing member you just need a performance boat and voila your a contributor .

KAP
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