Offshore Racing: Two Is Enough—For Now
 

I can be as hard as anyone on offshore racing, but http://boatermouth.com//index.php?vi...ntent&Itemid=8.

Of course it would be a lot better with bigger fleets and better parity. But it is what it is. For now.

I never understood the circus show and championships with single boat count. Will the next millionaire please get in touch w/ me so I can show you how to really make history in offshore powerboat racing.

ps........It won't take a million dollars either.

Right with you on the single-boat-in a-class thing.

About six years ago, I competed at the 24-hour Mountain Biking Nationals with my four-rider team. There were four teams in our class. Three quit riding when it got dark. My team didn't, and we "won" a "national" title.

Needless to say, my "national championship" jersey has never seen the light of day, at least on my body.

Well the GF and I sat down and watched Versus last weekend, the Ocean City Race. Some of it wasn't bad. But we quickly tired of the constant interviews, which at some points, completely overshadowed the race coverage. We also noticed something else at the same exact time and said "Who the heck is he racing against"? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'm sorry, I don't like watching cars race around an oval making left hand turns all day either. But at least it's a race. Most of the You Tube videos for Poker Runs and even fun runs is more exciting, and no interviews.

How about a reality TV show that features a boat that tours the nation for Poker runs?

Dude, you are on to something. Call Hollywood. Now.

It's an obvious feature and draw. Plenty of people willing to do it, and plenty can afford to do it.

Very few people on here have experienced over 20 boats in the same class going into turn 1. If you ever get the chance you will never forget it. I had the chance in F1 and F2 and until the spec classes come back I'm going to keep beating the drum.

...

Self serving??Boater mouth?Boats you favor:bsflag:Oh yea the sleezy ones are the millionares:eek:

blah

Ummm...nobody really cares about the current formula of racing, you can sit there with your other racing fan and have some fun watching a couple boats compete but the masses don't give a hoot. I might come back to watching boat racing if there were some competition in a simplified formula but for now I'll just continue fine without boat racing in my life.

And if I do come back it won't be watching some boats race around a river out west, it'll be in the rough where it's supposed to be.

Good Luck!

It is a shame that the two best classes are gone. F-1 and f-2 were by far the best. Lets work on bringing them back.

I put Warlock on the map in 1999-2001. I was a dealer and responsible for bringing many F1 boats into the APBA.

Hey Paradise,

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're trying to say.

I liked the article till you got to the CMS/Citron match-up, on paper it looked good, and "IF" there were no break downs it could have been exciting. the real races were in Super Stock, Super Cat, and SV limited, were all have to run a similar boat & HP. IMHO the Big Vee classes are too confusing for even those that have been around a while. Happy Thanksgiving to all!

I was also a dealer for them in 99-01. I raced in f1 99-00. I am sure you saw the back of my boat.

@TheJoker: I'm with ya there on F1 and F2 the BEST racing i have ever seen was there 20+ boats fighting and scratching for every position, didn't matter if it was for the lead or back in 15th-20th. Not to sound stupid what was the REAL reason for the disinigration of these classes???
those where the days

+2

Sleezy scary it's your article!I'm sure it's true in some cases but enough with the plugs:evilb: Haggin had it right united we race and never trash talk your compitition unite them !:rolleyes:

I've been watching offshore since the early 90's when teams had to park boats at the hotels becasue there were too many for the pits to accomadate. Those were the best times for me as a fan. Then there was the 1999 Worlds in St Pete with Alcone and Barber battling it out. Not to mention a whole host of other open class and superboats along with vees and super stock. After that, the early 2000's with the factory classes and Super Cat.

The best racing came when they took the blowers off and ran naturally aspirated because you would get a good number of boats in each class and they would last the entire race. Which brings me to Key West 2010. The best races, as Pete said, were Super Cat, Cat Light, Super Stock, and Vee Light. Most of these boats went the distance.

I like the big boys (CMS, Cintron) but they don't usually last the entire race; I'm not sure why either. I remember guys like Dave Scott, Alcone, Hayim, and Barber used to last to the end (most of the time) with big blower motors. CMS, Cintron, SuperHeat, and Mixed Emotions didn't last an entire race in KW this year that I can remember. I don't know what it takes to get big power to last an entire race, but they used to do it.

Having said all that, I will continue to spend my money go to a race site and watch those who show up and I will like it.

Never saw the back of your boat for sure. How many Pro Series races did you win? Championships?

The Merc 525 and Allweiss leaving the sport did it in. If we could of kept the 500 efi and the 500 carbs in the game I think we could of survived. The boat mfgs like: Kyprtonite , Activator , Progression , Baja , Warlock , Fountain , Joker , Corsa , Wellcraft , Formula all benefitted from the Factory Series. I know how to fix it but it will take some money and the right people in charge.

Well, Paradise, that's the thing about commentary. It elicits comment and I respect your opinion—minus the name-calling, which is just silly.

However, if you are suggesting I mentioned the Amsoil-Stihl battle, which I covered (on my own time, thanks, for speedonthewater and offshoreonly) because Bob Teague is a colleague, you're wrong on at least two fronts.

First, heading into Sunday's race Amsoil and Sthil were tied in points and separated by seconds, which was the way Sunday's race ended. By several accounts, and I spoke to multiple sources, it was one of the best races of the event, as was the Mapei-Talbot battle.

Second, when Stihl won on Wednesday I went straight to owner J.R Noble, who was gracious, for his take and quote.

Regarding Cintron versus CMS: After Friday's results, Sunday was still anyone's race. Cintron went with the tactic of turning down the boost and making its engines last. CMS went out hard with full power and showed, at least in the first couple of laps, what that kind of power can do with an average 120 mph on its first lap. Despite that CMS dropped out of the final race with just five laps completed, it was engaging from the perspective of tactics, which really matter in a three-race format.

Paradise ... my commentary did, in fact, have a theme of unity—that being unity among the racers, who at the end of the day are all that really matter. You might disagree with my opinion based on my experience covering the sport and that I do respect. But do everyone a favor and save the insults and personal attacks. They serve no one and, more important, do nothing to advance the discussion.

Brian, didn't the canopy controversy (some builders wanted them, some didn't) also play a role in the demise of the F2 class?

I don't think so. The Super Vee w/ the 525's was a great class. They'll always be the guy that wants the canopy but I raced both and loved the open cockpit. The F1 / F2 boats with the 525's were getting too fast and too expensive. We had it all when SPEED Channel covered the races and we had the smaller motors.

I was just thinking back and as I recall that Formula (as a factory) was opposed to canopied F2 boats, and Fountain (as a factory) was for them. There were lots of arguments at the time—the pro-canopy camp thought they were much safer, the anti-canopy camp thought it would encourage racers to take risks they wouldn't have taken in open-cockpit boat. Plus, they were afraid they'd lose the pleasure boat/race boat marketing advantage. I just recall it being a major "S-storm."

Obviously, being on the inside you have a much more-informed take than I do.

One element to the demise of F2 to and F1 that can't be denied: the plummeting economy. The tech bubble burst in spring of 2000, but the high-performance boat industry had already begun its decline.

As "Freeze Frame Jeff" said to me a few months ago, "When the money stops, the fun stops."

I am the world champ in 99 and more wins than most. i only saw the back of your boat once broi. its was my first race. after that all you saw was the back baby. lol

come on boys, lets get the factory racing back together. Just with the two classe we would havemore boats than what they have now. Use the new 8.2 and lighten the boats up a little. The speeds would be perfect. Upper 70's low 80's in f1 ans upper 80's in f2. with all the advances in props we should be able to run a good number with the 8.2 and keep the boats cheaper. I believe we could have awesome racing again.

The original concept behind the Factory classes was to bring existing boats with stock retail Mercruiser power (496's) out of the boatyards and marinas around the country. The idea was to create a nice starter class for the average boater to get his (or her) feet wet at little to no cost. This was before the 500HP came along and became the core engine, forcing every racer to, at the very least, re-power to make the class. After that the "factories" began to make ultralight hulls which also drove the cost of entry straight up. Finally the 525HP came along bringing the speeds up to levels that were absolutely deadly in open cockpit hulls. Fountain and Phantom stepped up with canopies, the others did not. Formula, one of the mainstays of the class, ran for the hills after a fatal accident claimed one of their best racers and it became obvious that the classes were becoming a marketing liability rather than an attraction.

To me, from my observor's seat watching and commentating from the very start to the ultimate demise of these classes, they seemed pretty vanilla. The class racers loved the racing, but they did not translate well to TV simply because they looked like many boats the average viewer might see cruising by his lake, river or bay. They were, at the end of the day, little more than family runabouts with big power and Bravo drives....neither purpose built race designs, nor true representatives of "showroom" boats. After all of the dust and spray settled and the golf shirt wearing marketing types left the arena, the racing was good, but no better than the old "B" class or the original "Production, Modified, Sport, and Open" classes that the sport thrived on during the 70's and 80's, before the "better ideas" took hold. In that era fleets of up to 30 evenly matched boats took to big seas in open water and manufacturers competed at the highest levels. New "P" class entrants could develop in the regional club races and National races had true significance. IMHO THAT MODEL wasn't broke and was "fixed" anyway. It worked then...and it will work today.

T2x

After having a very small interaction with Carbonell last weekend.

I understand the phenomenal growth of the KW races in the last ten years and that translates on the whole circuit.

No one that has earned any sort of resources that have always been needed to race at that level would deal for long with that kind of individual. The number of racers showing up going down every year shows it clearly.

In 1999 a 26 ft Corsa called Freedom Offshore won The Worlds.........If this is Andy---hello.......get your facts straight.

Is the horse dead yet? We keep beating it so it must be dead by now.

The death of this sport was when the courses got shorter and it went from offshor to inshore races. Offshore racing was not meant to have heat races and it has not worked for many years. The sport was designed to be an endurance test, not a sprint. I know, I know, you will lose "all" of the fans if you race offshore. Since there doesn't seem to be that many fans or that many boats, it might be worth trying something tried and true. OFFSHORE RACING!

haha brian you know I won bro so stop. lol how you been? I think I got my facts straight. I smoked the boys. I even got second in st pete with the grren go boat. congrats on your baby

Hey smokey, I am with you. the APBA aka American pond boat association ran on ponds a lot. Had to go to sbi to get the big water all the time. I live in NJ and they cancelled the AC race because of big waves. Bob Teague said it best when he commented its like this at ventura every day.

Who do you think was one of the prime architects of the "fixing" of the sport back in the late 80's?

You would of never won anything if I hadn't give up Lance on the sticks - haha. I guess Toronto - Corpus , W. Palm , Islamorada were ponds. What ya been up to?

Offshore racing isn't dead, it is just being "Born Again"

HORBA MARATHON CLASS RULES 2011

Class A 42 to 50 feet 3 or more engines
Class B 30 to 41 feet 2 engines
Class C 25 to 33 feet Outboards and Single Inboard
Class D 18 to 24 feet Small Boat Class
Class H Historic Open & Production class categories

Any hull design is allowed, Deep V, Cats, Trihulls etc. As long as the design is considered safe for ocean passage, it is allowed.

Boat measurement does not include any overhangs off the transoms, bustles, swim platforms etc. Measurement for length is taken from the bottom of the boat, where it joins the transom, to a line dropped from the bow.

Class C Outboards will be limited to a maximum of three motors with maximum horsepower of each outboard of 300. Outboard boats longer than 33 feet or with more than three engines of 300 HP each will move up to Class A.

Class H Historic outboards will be limited to a maximum of two modern era outboards, any horsepower, or three vintage era outboards. Vintage era outboards are 25 years old or older.

Starting time for the marathon classes:
8:00 AM Historic & Class D
8:30 AM Classes A – B - C

All classes run against the same elapsed time calculation. Historic and Class D boats will not have a 30 minute time advantage.

No turbines powered boats allowed.


Safety

We want the entrants to be as safe as possible, so we are still working with the concept of allowing canopy boats. Below are some ideas re allowing the canopy boats to compete. At this point .....they are suggestions, they are not finalized.

A.) No canopy boats unless each canopy boat provides it’s own helicopter and safety crew that will maintain it’s position over that boat for the entire length of the course. There will be no sharing of helicopters over more than a single canopy boat.

B.) Canopy boats may be altered for safety purposes by cutting the top off the canopy to allow safe exit from the boat by the crew in case of an accident. A specific sized opening will be required, as the European teams have.

We are still working with various rulebooks to come up with a complete rulebook of our own. Details will be coming in the next few weeks.


2011 Race dates

September 24, 2011 ...Don Aronow Memorial Around Long Island Marathon. Produced by National Powwerboat Association NPBA. Distance 271 miles.

November 5, 2011.....Bill Wishnick Memorial Fort Lauderdale to Key West Marathon Distance 215 miles

Date TBA....Grand Haven, Mich to Chicago and back. Distance 220 miles estimate

All classes will run the entire distance of the course for that specific marathon. Minimun marathon distance 200 miles. Fuel stops allowed if needed.

The Europeans will ship their boats over after the Cowes event in August 2011 and keep them here, for both the NY marathon and Florida marathon and then ship them back via Jacksonville.

Not much bro. Just selling boats and working the marina. We have locations in New Jersey, Philly and Lauderdale now. Keeps me busy. Trying to get the molds from carter so i can start making some boats. Other than that just settling down. Finally. lol. Man every time I go through GA I think of staying at your lake house. I had such a great time there. Beats the salt water any day. I heard your building sopme nice stuff. I also remember you showed me your facility were you were building a cool v bottom.

That sounds cool.