Fiat Fpt Diesel 560 Hp 1000+tq
12-13-2010, 05:16 PM
#81
arneson-industries.com
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The FPT 560 has a weight of 1,430 lbs without gear or about 20 lbs less than the QSB480's without gear.
This is what is making the FPT look real attractive in comparison to the CMD.
Pat, your 2 speed might not use much more but the ones that FPT and Cummins recommend certainly do.
This is what is making the FPT look real attractive in comparison to the CMD.
Pat, your 2 speed might not use much more but the ones that FPT and Cummins recommend certainly do.
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Arneson Surface Drives www.arneson-industries.com
Arneson Surface Drives www.arneson-industries.com
12-13-2010, 08:46 PM
#82
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
The FPT 560 has a weight of 1,430 lbs without gear or about 20 lbs less than the QSB480's without gear.
This is what is making the FPT look real attractive in comparison to the CMD.
Pat, your 2 speed might not use much more but the ones that FPT and Cummins recommend certainly do.
This is what is making the FPT look real attractive in comparison to the CMD.
Pat, your 2 speed might not use much more but the ones that FPT and Cummins recommend certainly do.
12-13-2010, 09:20 PM
#83
arneson-industries.com
Offshoreonly Advertiser
The Yanmar 6LY3-ETP 480 HP has a weight of 1,411 lbs
So.. 1,411 lbs for the Yanmar 480 hp motor
1,420 lbs for the FPT 560 hp motor (they will flash 600 hp)
1,450 lbs for the Cummins 480 hp motor
Note: all weights are without gear, oil, or coolant. Add another 100 lbs for fluids and 171 lbs for a ZF gear or 215 lbs for a Twin Disc
So.. 1,411 lbs for the Yanmar 480 hp motor
1,420 lbs for the FPT 560 hp motor (they will flash 600 hp)
1,450 lbs for the Cummins 480 hp motor
Note: all weights are without gear, oil, or coolant. Add another 100 lbs for fluids and 171 lbs for a ZF gear or 215 lbs for a Twin Disc
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Arneson Surface Drives www.arneson-industries.com
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12-13-2010, 10:21 PM
#84
Registered
So having experience running the little Yanmar and Volvos in the 250 to 315 range, and knowing they are a 1000 hour motor that is going to need something in the neighborhood of 2 to 3 thousand dollars in only parts just beyond this time, and at best are 2000 hour full power motor, What is the advantage everybody here is seeking over a large cubic inch gas motor.
The 480 Yanmar and the 480 Cummins which are the most applicable diesel installations that can be compared to a gas installation and have the beef to be called a real diesel engine ,how do the measure up in the long run over a big cube gas motor for upfront cost ,How do they measure up in todays lightweight high performance designed boats?,How do the upfront costs with the upgrades needed to make them perform properly and how long will it take to recoup those added expenses and will you see it on the bottom line when you sell it?
How does the up front cost plus the extra you have to spend on overdrives to get it to work compare to the upfront costs of some big Cube N/A Chevys or the Ilmoors.
And lastly what is the hard costs for maintaing ,fuel and needed repairs compare in the long run.
Not out to bust balls ,just starting a conversation with those who are interested and and a few that have experience and a couple more who work in the field.
For example how would some 500 hp Bulldogs compare to the 480 Yanmars that Bob the builder is running in his boat and lets use his boat for a known baseline for fuel burn and performance.
The 480 Yanmar and the 480 Cummins which are the most applicable diesel installations that can be compared to a gas installation and have the beef to be called a real diesel engine ,how do the measure up in the long run over a big cube gas motor for upfront cost ,How do they measure up in todays lightweight high performance designed boats?,How do the upfront costs with the upgrades needed to make them perform properly and how long will it take to recoup those added expenses and will you see it on the bottom line when you sell it?
How does the up front cost plus the extra you have to spend on overdrives to get it to work compare to the upfront costs of some big Cube N/A Chevys or the Ilmoors.
And lastly what is the hard costs for maintaing ,fuel and needed repairs compare in the long run.
Not out to bust balls ,just starting a conversation with those who are interested and and a few that have experience and a couple more who work in the field.
For example how would some 500 hp Bulldogs compare to the 480 Yanmars that Bob the builder is running in his boat and lets use his boat for a known baseline for fuel burn and performance.
Last edited by tommymonza; 12-13-2010 at 10:23 PM.
12-13-2010, 11:11 PM
#85
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So having experience running the little Yanmar and Volvos in the 250 to 315 range, and knowing they are a 1000 hour motor that is going to need something in the neighborhood of 2 to 3 thousand dollars in only parts just beyond this time, and at best are 2000 hour full power motor, What is the advantage everybody here is seeking over a large cubic inch gas motor.
The 480 Yanmar and the 480 Cummins which are the most applicable diesel installations that can be compared to a gas installation and have the beef to be called a real diesel engine ,how do the measure up in the long run over a big cube gas motor for upfront cost ,How do they measure up in todays lightweight high performance designed boats?,How do the upfront costs with the upgrades needed to make them perform properly and how long will it take to recoup those added expenses and will you see it on the bottom line when you sell it?
How does the up front cost plus the extra you have to spend on overdrives to get it to work compare to the upfront costs of some big Cube N/A Chevys or the Ilmoors.
And lastly what is the hard costs for maintaing ,fuel and needed repairs compare in the long run.
Not out to bust balls ,just starting a conversation with those who are interested and and a few that have experience and a couple more who work in the field.
For example how would some 500 hp Bulldogs compare to the 480 Yanmars that Bob the builder is running in his boat and lets use his boat for a known baseline for fuel burn and performance.
The 480 Yanmar and the 480 Cummins which are the most applicable diesel installations that can be compared to a gas installation and have the beef to be called a real diesel engine ,how do the measure up in the long run over a big cube gas motor for upfront cost ,How do they measure up in todays lightweight high performance designed boats?,How do the upfront costs with the upgrades needed to make them perform properly and how long will it take to recoup those added expenses and will you see it on the bottom line when you sell it?
How does the up front cost plus the extra you have to spend on overdrives to get it to work compare to the upfront costs of some big Cube N/A Chevys or the Ilmoors.
And lastly what is the hard costs for maintaing ,fuel and needed repairs compare in the long run.
Not out to bust balls ,just starting a conversation with those who are interested and and a few that have experience and a couple more who work in the field.
For example how would some 500 hp Bulldogs compare to the 480 Yanmars that Bob the builder is running in his boat and lets use his boat for a known baseline for fuel burn and performance.
12-14-2010, 08:27 AM
#86
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
The Yanmar 6LY3-ETP 480 HP has a weight of 1,411 lbs
So.. 1,411 lbs for the Yanmar 480 hp motor
1,420 lbs for the FPT 560 hp motor (they will flash 600 hp)
1,450 lbs for the Cummins 480 hp motor
Note: all weights are without gear, oil, or coolant. Add another 100 lbs for fluids and 171 lbs for a ZF gear or 215 lbs for a Twin Disc
So.. 1,411 lbs for the Yanmar 480 hp motor
1,420 lbs for the FPT 560 hp motor (they will flash 600 hp)
1,450 lbs for the Cummins 480 hp motor
Note: all weights are without gear, oil, or coolant. Add another 100 lbs for fluids and 171 lbs for a ZF gear or 215 lbs for a Twin Disc
Thanks RIK.. The FPT look attractive, too bad their presence and customer support is not as good as Yanmar or Cummins.
My point is when I was building my Yanmar boat, I wanted so bad to go with Sea-Tek at the time.. Sobo talked me out of it do to lack of customer support here in the states.. Im glad he did..cause they folded right after my boat was finished. Thats the only thing that scares me about FPT, I just need to do more research.
Im anxious to see what Bob has to say on his 480hp Yanmars, and how they have held up.. are they smoke free, do they load up in reverse, have they been trouble free. Great all around package, just wish I could have close to 600hp in a twin application on another 43 NT, or say a 44 OL.
12-14-2010, 09:25 AM
#87
Registered
Get the 600 Cummins (CMD) "C's" you will never look back - a little heavier than the FPT probably 1,200 lbs for both when installed with gears and all but at 43' you can carry the weight. Great service, big bore engine compared to the Yanmar, 100% psoitive it will get on plane better than the Yanmar, no subsitute for cubic inches to make low end power and you have the largest service network out there.
You can take a 43'er on a trailer to a Cummins distributor anywhere in the US and they can work on it. If the distributor in FL was so jammed pack, trailer the boat to GA or TN or KS and they can work on it - try that with a Yanmar.
Any Cummins distributor can service the engine under warranty does not need to be a marine dealer. Not that I'm talking down to dealers but with Cummins you go right to the distributor level and have peace of mind - it's the factory.
You can take a 43'er on a trailer to a Cummins distributor anywhere in the US and they can work on it. If the distributor in FL was so jammed pack, trailer the boat to GA or TN or KS and they can work on it - try that with a Yanmar.
Any Cummins distributor can service the engine under warranty does not need to be a marine dealer. Not that I'm talking down to dealers but with Cummins you go right to the distributor level and have peace of mind - it's the factory.
12-14-2010, 10:35 AM
#88
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First of all I hope Mike will forgive us all for wandering away from the thread title where he was looking for info on FPT. As always happens with these diesel threads different product gets mentioned but the discussion is always interesting and we all learn something from it.
To answer Tommy, Jeff and anyone else interested my experience with the Yanmars has been nothing but good. It serves my purpose of pushing a heavy boat at speeds up to mid 70's which still allows me to do poker runs but cruises comfortably at about 68 MPH all day long with a 400 mile range. Would I like a package that would give me another 10 + MPH ? You bet. For those not familiar with what I am running, it is 50' Nor Tech Vee with trip Yanmar 480's hooked up to Arneson ASD - 8 drives. My 9 ft beam allows for the three Yanmars side by side. The Cummins ( which I agree with Joe is a great motor with support network ) are too wide to fit 3 in. As far as FPT, I have only recently became aware of their offering and will follow along to see how they do in the months and years ahead. I wish them well. I expect for a long time to come tho, a supporting dealer network here may be an issue ?
Anyway I will get back to answering Jeff and Tommy's questions. Jeff as far as smoke goes it is no issue at all. I have learned that when backing into a slip as long as you do not throttle up as we do with our gas boats, there will be no smoke. It's hard not to touch those throttles when you have a bit of wind or tide action going on but I have learned how to manage it nicely and occasional use of the bow thruster is just the ticket.
Tommy was interested in operating costs as compared to gas and gave the example of 500 Bulldogs. Never had those in any of my boats but I can offer a comparison with my previous 50 NT with trip 850's which may not be a good comparison but may show why I like my current setup better.
Top speed - 850's = 97 MPH 480 Yanmars = 76 MPH
Cruising speed 850's = 75 + Yanmars = 68 - 70 MPH
Range with same 400 gal tank 850's = 200 miles Yanmars = 400 miles
Consumption at cruise 850's 2 gal / mile Yanmar's 1 gal / mile
Time between rebuilds 850's = 300 hrs when new and every 225 - 250 hrs max after that. Yanmars 440 hrs at this time and still very strong. Could be in thousands of hours but who knows?
Yanmar repair history in first 440 hrs - Starboard motor - never been touched, center motor small leak in fuel oil line, and port motor rebuild power steering pump. My costs are measured in the few hundreds of dollars as compared with a staggering amount that would reach 6 figures on some years with the 850 gas. With the 850's in addition to rebuilds every 12 to 15 months due to high usage I would need either new headers or repairs every 2 years, transmission rebuilds, # 6 rebuilds and I can go on and on. I have none of those issues with my current setup. I just go boating !
To answer Tommy, Jeff and anyone else interested my experience with the Yanmars has been nothing but good. It serves my purpose of pushing a heavy boat at speeds up to mid 70's which still allows me to do poker runs but cruises comfortably at about 68 MPH all day long with a 400 mile range. Would I like a package that would give me another 10 + MPH ? You bet. For those not familiar with what I am running, it is 50' Nor Tech Vee with trip Yanmar 480's hooked up to Arneson ASD - 8 drives. My 9 ft beam allows for the three Yanmars side by side. The Cummins ( which I agree with Joe is a great motor with support network ) are too wide to fit 3 in. As far as FPT, I have only recently became aware of their offering and will follow along to see how they do in the months and years ahead. I wish them well. I expect for a long time to come tho, a supporting dealer network here may be an issue ?
Anyway I will get back to answering Jeff and Tommy's questions. Jeff as far as smoke goes it is no issue at all. I have learned that when backing into a slip as long as you do not throttle up as we do with our gas boats, there will be no smoke. It's hard not to touch those throttles when you have a bit of wind or tide action going on but I have learned how to manage it nicely and occasional use of the bow thruster is just the ticket.
Tommy was interested in operating costs as compared to gas and gave the example of 500 Bulldogs. Never had those in any of my boats but I can offer a comparison with my previous 50 NT with trip 850's which may not be a good comparison but may show why I like my current setup better.
Top speed - 850's = 97 MPH 480 Yanmars = 76 MPH
Cruising speed 850's = 75 + Yanmars = 68 - 70 MPH
Range with same 400 gal tank 850's = 200 miles Yanmars = 400 miles
Consumption at cruise 850's 2 gal / mile Yanmar's 1 gal / mile
Time between rebuilds 850's = 300 hrs when new and every 225 - 250 hrs max after that. Yanmars 440 hrs at this time and still very strong. Could be in thousands of hours but who knows?
Yanmar repair history in first 440 hrs - Starboard motor - never been touched, center motor small leak in fuel oil line, and port motor rebuild power steering pump. My costs are measured in the few hundreds of dollars as compared with a staggering amount that would reach 6 figures on some years with the 850 gas. With the 850's in addition to rebuilds every 12 to 15 months due to high usage I would need either new headers or repairs every 2 years, transmission rebuilds, # 6 rebuilds and I can go on and on. I have none of those issues with my current setup. I just go boating !
Last edited by Bobthebuilder; 12-14-2010 at 11:34 AM.
12-14-2010, 10:46 AM
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First of all I hope Mike will forgive us all for wandering away from the thread title where he was looking for info on FPT. As always happens with these diesel threads different product gets mentioned but the discussion is always interesting and we all learn something from it.
To answer Tommy, Jeff and anyone else interested my experience with the Yanmars has been nothing but good. It serves my purpose of pushing a heavy boat at speeds up to mid 70's which still allows me to do poker runs but cruises comfortably at about 68 MPH all day long with a 400 mile range. Would I like a package that would give me another 10 + MPH ? You bet. For those not familiar what I am running they are trip Yanmar 480's hooked up to Arneson ASD - 8 drives. My 9 ft beam allows for the three Yanmars side by side. The Cummins ( which I agree with Joe is a great motor with support network ) are too wide to fit 3 in. As far as FPT I have only recently became aware of their offering and will follow along to see how they do in the months and years ahead. I wish them well. I expect for a long to come tho a supporting dealer network here may be an issue ?
Anyway I will get back to answering Jeff and Tommy's questions. Jeff as far as smoke goes it is no issue at all. I have learned that when backing into a slip as long as you do not throttle up as we do with our gas boats, there will be no smoke. It's hard not to touch those throttles when you have a bit of wind or tide action going on but I have learned how to manage it nicely and occasional use of the bow thruster is just the ticket.
Tommy was interested in operating costs as compared to gas and gave the example of 500 Bulldogs. Never had those in any of my boats but I can offer a comparison with my previous 50 NT with trip 850's which may not be a good comparison but may show why I like my current setup better.
Top speed - 850's = 97 MPH 480 Yanmars = 76 MPH
Cruising speed 850's = 75 + Yanmars = 68 - 70 MPH
Range with same 400 gal tank 850's = 200 miles Yanmars = 400 miles
Consumption at cruise 850's 2 gal / mile Yanmar's 1 gal / mile
Time between rebuilds 850's = 300 hrs when new and every 225 - 250 hrs max after that. Yanmars 440 hrs at this time and still very strong. Could be in thousands of hours but who knows?
Yanmar repair history in first 440 hrs - Starboard motor - never been touched, center motor small leak in fuel oil line, and port motor rebuild power steering pump. My costs are measured in the few hundreds of dollars as compared with a staggering amount that would reach 6 figures on some years with the 850 gas. With the 850's in addition to rebuilds every 12 to 15 months due to high usage I would need either new headers or repairs every 2 years, transmission rebuilds, # 6 rebuilds and I can go on and on. I have none of those issues with my current setup. I just go boating !
To answer Tommy, Jeff and anyone else interested my experience with the Yanmars has been nothing but good. It serves my purpose of pushing a heavy boat at speeds up to mid 70's which still allows me to do poker runs but cruises comfortably at about 68 MPH all day long with a 400 mile range. Would I like a package that would give me another 10 + MPH ? You bet. For those not familiar what I am running they are trip Yanmar 480's hooked up to Arneson ASD - 8 drives. My 9 ft beam allows for the three Yanmars side by side. The Cummins ( which I agree with Joe is a great motor with support network ) are too wide to fit 3 in. As far as FPT I have only recently became aware of their offering and will follow along to see how they do in the months and years ahead. I wish them well. I expect for a long to come tho a supporting dealer network here may be an issue ?
Anyway I will get back to answering Jeff and Tommy's questions. Jeff as far as smoke goes it is no issue at all. I have learned that when backing into a slip as long as you do not throttle up as we do with our gas boats, there will be no smoke. It's hard not to touch those throttles when you have a bit of wind or tide action going on but I have learned how to manage it nicely and occasional use of the bow thruster is just the ticket.
Tommy was interested in operating costs as compared to gas and gave the example of 500 Bulldogs. Never had those in any of my boats but I can offer a comparison with my previous 50 NT with trip 850's which may not be a good comparison but may show why I like my current setup better.
Top speed - 850's = 97 MPH 480 Yanmars = 76 MPH
Cruising speed 850's = 75 + Yanmars = 68 - 70 MPH
Range with same 400 gal tank 850's = 200 miles Yanmars = 400 miles
Consumption at cruise 850's 2 gal / mile Yanmar's 1 gal / mile
Time between rebuilds 850's = 300 hrs when new and every 225 - 250 hrs max after that. Yanmars 440 hrs at this time and still very strong. Could be in thousands of hours but who knows?
Yanmar repair history in first 440 hrs - Starboard motor - never been touched, center motor small leak in fuel oil line, and port motor rebuild power steering pump. My costs are measured in the few hundreds of dollars as compared with a staggering amount that would reach 6 figures on some years with the 850 gas. With the 850's in addition to rebuilds every 12 to 15 months due to high usage I would need either new headers or repairs every 2 years, transmission rebuilds, # 6 rebuilds and I can go on and on. I have none of those issues with my current setup. I just go boating !
Bob very nice insightful post.
