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CAT vs V HULL Danger Rating?
I am a 55+ yr old guy who has owned two boats for a total of 8 years. My last boat was a 24 ft. Now, after having the snot beat out of me when the wind comes up at Lake Tahoe, and other lakes, I decided to buy a bigger performance boat. Nothing more dull than a boat that simply cannot perform... Only problem is, that I have been trying to get insurance on the boat I just bought and good grief, every insurance agent is telling me how dangerous CATS are - not to mention that I have been turned down by about 10 companies ( Stacy just got me insurance at what I think is a reasonable rate.). I have even had a boat dealer tell me this too. Everyone seems concerned that a motor will blow at speed and the boat will have a corner dip and then flip killing all aboard. Yet, the prop will free wheel if the motor stops! Are CATs that much more dangerous? Any stories of what can go wrong to give me a heads up? Also, my new ride is a 1995 31 ft SXT CAT with two 600 hp 502's in it.
Rick |
Originally Posted by TahoeRick
(Post 3285257)
I am a 55+ yr old guy who has owned two boats for a total of 8 years. My last boat was a 24 ft. Now, after having the snot beat out of me when the wind comes up at Lake Tahoe, and other lakes, I decided to buy a bigger performance boat. Nothing more dull than a boat that simply cannot perform... Only problem is, that I have been trying to get insurance on the boat I just bought and god grief, every insurance agent is telling me how dangerous CATS are - not to mention that I have been truned down by about 10 companies ( Stacy just got me insurance at what I think is a reasonable rate.). I have even had a boat dealer tell me this too. Everyone seems concerned that a motor will blow at speed and the boat will have a corner dip and then flip killing all aboard. Yet, the prop will free wheel if the motor stops! Are CATs that much more dangerous? Any stories of what can go wrong to give me a heads up? Also, my new ride is a 1995 31 ft SXT CAT with two 600 hp 502's in it.
Rick |
I would say the danger, from the underwriters perspective, is the inherent speed increase that cats have.
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Originally Posted by seafordguy
(Post 3285276)
I would say the danger, from the underwriters perspective, is the inherent speed increase that cats have.
Rick |
Probably would be good to do some searches on this site regarding insurance, cats, driver training etc.
Unfortunatly there have been some major accidents involving cats and the insurance industry has put some serious pricing on insurance. As it was suggested on the other thread you should consider a drivers course. ed |
I feel safer in a cat...
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Originally Posted by Interceptor
(Post 3285283)
Probably would be good to do some searches on this site regarding insurance, cats, driver training etc.
Unfortunatly there have been some major accidents involving cats and the insurance industry has put some serious pricing on insurance. As it was suggested on the other thread you should consider a drivers course. ed But, back to the subject at hand, what causes CATS to have an accident more than V hulls? Is speed the only cause? Or, are they inherently more likely to have an accident when hitting freak wave and landing bad, or when something mechanical grenades? I want to be accutely aware of what causes accidents in the type of boat I just purchased. I plan on many outings with friends and family in it and want to be aware of their limitations and faults. As a positive note, eveyrone has told me that cats have an inherently more stable ride in rough water than V Hulls. I do know that turning them is very weird - they lean the opposite direction - so I should go slow when turning and practice turning at various increasing speeds to get used to how this boat turns. |
Same but cats are faster so the risk jumps:eek:
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Originally Posted by TahoeRick
(Post 3285300)
I don't have a problem with a boaters course, I would like to take one of an advanced level. Up to now, I had to learn on my own. If they have a respectible one in my area and it is not thousands of dollars, I would be interested. I have been researching a LOT in the past couple of weeks insurance, but not driver training.
But, back to the subject at hand, what causes CATS to have an accident more than V hulls? Is speed the only cause? Or, are they inherently more likely to have an accident when hitting freak wave and landing bad, or when something mechanical grenades? I want to be accutely aware of what causes accidents in the type of boat I just purchased. I plan on many outings with friends and family in it and want to be aware of their limitations and faults. As a positive note, eveyrone has told me that cats have an inherently more stable ride in rough water than V Hulls. I do know that turning them is very weird - they lean the opposite direction - so I should go slow when turning and practice turning at various increasing speeds to get used to how this boat turns. How you setup your cat before you go into a turn makes a big difference not just speed. A twin step boat and cat have a lot in common and as such are more likely to have you wondering how the hell did i end up in the water when i was only doing XXXX. Cats are more stable if it is not to rough, again it depends on how you are running the boat , when it gets real rough then the V has the advantage. |
Rick, That cat will never hurt you. Just be logical. The speeds that you or I run are simply not fast enough to be concerned. Just get to know the boat and enjoy it. I always tell everyone that my boat is faster than myself, meaning that I chose not to drive it faster than I am comfortable in whatever situation or conditions.I also am 55 and have owned cats for the past 12 years. I like everything about a cat except the insurance rates. Good luck and enjoy. Doug
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One quick little story which means nothing, but...
Was running flat out in my Spectre 30/Twin 300 Merc combo a few years ago. 97mph. The right motor's driveshaft broke. Nothing happened except the water pressure horn went off and the boat slowed down. And I spent $$$$ getting it fixed. I think "cats" are fantastic. Mike |
I agree with 27daytona take your time get used to the boat
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I think a lot of the "danger" is purely based on the speeds. If you have a v that is doing 120+ you are in the upper end of performance v. However, in comparison a pretty mild power cat can do 120 relatively easily. I also think this is part of the reason why they like people to have previous cat experience because a lot can go wrong, and when jumping from a v to a cat there is a difference in driving style, so the insurance company likes to know that you have had previous driving experience, or your rates are gonna be crazy.
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Originally Posted by h20 toie
(Post 3285316)
Cats are more stable if it is not to rough, again it depends on how you are running the boat , when it gets real rough then the V has the advantage.
The operational skill to operate a cat in the rough is far greater then a vee. Cats will actually fly across the waves. This is where there will be a narrower margin in operating it safely. A vee will plow through the rough at a lower speed lending itself to a bigger margin for safety. Take two top throttle men put one in a 47 vee the other in a 46 Cat and run them side by side the cat will be faster. |
Originally Posted by mikesufka
(Post 3285326)
One quick little story which means nothing, but...
Was running flat out in my Spectre 30/Twin 300 Merc combo a few years ago. 97mph. The right motor's driveshaft broke. Nothing happened except the water pressure horn went off and the boat slowed down. And I spent $$$$ getting it fixed. I think "cats" are fantastic. Mike Unfortunately riding in my Vee has never been the same :lolhit: Glad to see you found insurance Rick :). |
And didn't GLH blow a #6 in the DOI boat at speed with little fanfare....??
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Originally Posted by TahoeRick
(Post 3285257)
Everyone seems concerned that a motor will blow at speed and the boat will have a corner dip and then flip killing all aboard.
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I have owned ten cats over the years. I have blown engines, drives, transmission and even lost props. In every instance the boat simply slowed down. The worst was a blown number six at 150 mph, again slowed down. Made one heck of a noise and grinding. A skilled cat driver can run faster in rough water than a v hull. Many cats will lean into the turns slightly such as Skater and MTI.
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Originally Posted by TahoeRick
(Post 3285257)
I am a 55+ yr old guy who has owned two boats for a total of 8 years. My last boat was a 24 ft. Now, after having the snot beat out of me when the wind comes up at Lake Tahoe, and other lakes, I decided to buy a bigger performance boat. Nothing more dull than a boat that simply cannot perform... Only problem is, that I have been trying to get insurance on the boat I just bought and good grief, every insurance agent is telling me how dangerous CATS are - not to mention that I have been turned down by about 10 companies ( Stacy just got me insurance at what I think is a reasonable rate.). I have even had a boat dealer tell me this too. Everyone seems concerned that a motor will blow at speed and the boat will have a corner dip and then flip killing all aboard. Yet, the prop will free wheel if the motor stops! Are CATs that much more dangerous? Any stories of what can go wrong to give me a heads up? Also, my new ride is a 1995 31 ft SXT CAT with two 600 hp 502's in it.
Rick |
Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow
(Post 3285389)
I have owned ten cats over the years. I have blown engines, drives, transmission and even lost props. In every instance the boat simply slowed down. The worst was a blown number six at 150 mph, again slowed down. Made one heck of a noise and grinding. A skilled cat driver can run faster in rough water than a v hull. Many cats will lean into the turns slightly such as Skater and MTI.
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Originally Posted by firehawkcat
(Post 3285329)
I agree with 27daytona take your time get used to the boat
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Originally Posted by seafordguy
(Post 3285362)
And didn't GLH blow a #6 in the DOI boat at speed with little fanfare....??
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...5-mph-cat.html After running DOI for a couple years now, I found that if you want good information on running a cat, talk to the actual people that own and run them... Knowledge at the end of the bar is not the best usually. Check the rpm's it's the only way to tell something happens. Very uneventful. [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaYSDK4FXj4[/YOUTUBE] http://limestonedev.com/mti/DOIFlight2.jpg |
Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow
(Post 3285389)
....Many cats will lean into the turns slightly such as Skater and MTI.
Originally Posted by TahoeRick
I do know that turning them is very weird - they lean the opposite direction - so I should go slow when turning and practice turning at various increasing speeds to get used to how this boat turns.
I think like on any boat the biggest problems stem from how careful is the piece between the steering and the seat..... . |
Originally Posted by KNOT-RIGHT
(Post 3285336)
I respectfully disagree:drink:
The operational skill to operate a cat in the rough is far greater then a vee. Cats will actually fly across the waves. This is where there will be a narrower margin in operating it safely. A vee will plow through the rough at a lower speed lending itself to a bigger margin for safety. Take two top throttle men put one in a 47 vee the other in a 46 Cat and run them side by side the cat will be faster. I take it this has been discussed before?? 47 V and a 46 cat, as the seas get bigger, 6 ft, 7, 8,...10 and up, to the point of being unsafe at high speed, which hull has to start slowing down first? Cat or V ? |
Cat, Cat, Cat, once you go Cat, you will never go back:lolhit:, 32' Fountain to a 26' Redline Cat, been in same rough conditions with both, lot less of a back ache in my cat, have had same size V-bottoms turn around when we hit the lake...:drink:
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I have lost the starboard motor twice at over 120 in a mis handling poorly balanced over powered 33 cat and the only thing that happened is we slowed down.
I have been in a 30 foot v with a trim pump issue and stock stering that would like to toss you right in the pond at 60 mph.............cats all the way I have found through the years that insurance companys don't like cool stuff lol |
I barrel rolled a warlock 25 cat at 80 mph. Did no damage at all to the boat. Had it flipped right side up and took her to the shop, got the motor running and back on the lake that day. Awesome boat. driver error.
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Originally Posted by h20 toie
(Post 3285316)
Take the Tres Martin class, it is well worth it and you can save on insurance. Yes it is expensive but i have yet to hear of anyone that took the class and didn't learn a lot or thought it was a waste of money.
How you setup your cat before you go into a turn makes a big difference not just speed. A twin step boat and cat have a lot in common and as such are more likely to have you wondering how the hell did i end up in the water when i was only doing XXXX. Cats are more stable if it is not to rough, again it depends on how you are running the boat , when it gets real rough then the V has the advantage. Rick |
Originally Posted by Rottiguy
(Post 3285289)
I feel safer in a cat...
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Originally Posted by 27daytona
(Post 3285323)
Rick, That cat will never hurt you. Just be logical. The speeds that you or I run are simply not fast enough to be concerned. Just get to know the boat and enjoy it. I always tell everyone that my boat is faster than myself, meaning that I chose not to drive it faster than I am comfortable in whatever situation or conditions.I also am 55 and have owned cats for the past 12 years. I like everything about a cat except the insurance rates. Good luck and enjoy. Doug
I drive high performace cars - I owned a true super car - 11th C6 Z06 Corvette made in production and the 1st one in NV and added about 30 rwhp to its already great numbers. Drove it hard! Damn hard! Put 63,000 miles on it in two years... Not one ticket (Valentine one...) nor even coming close to an accident. I also ride 450 cc dirt bikes, and am thinking about a two stroke one because I want more HP! Just went ridiing before all of the snow here with my son who is a mad man on anything mechanical ( gets it from his father). The secret to my success, what I have told my sons and what you alluded to? YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHEN TO SHUT THE THROTTLE OFF! |
[QUOTE=mikesufka;3285326]One quick little story which means nothing, but...
Was running flat out in my Spectre 30/Twin 300 Merc combo a few years ago. 97mph. The right motor's driveshaft broke. Nothing happened except the water pressure horn went off and the boat slowed down. And I spent $$$$ getting it fixed. I think "cats" are fantastic. Mike[/QUOT Mike, your response and the other responses I have read on this forum are getting better and better! I was getting worried....! |
Originally Posted by TahoeRick
(Post 3285696)
"How you setup your cat before you go into a turn makes a big difference, not just speed". Please elaborate! If I sit here and think about this statement, my first reaction is that in my very limited experience the cat I have really resists turning unless I am up to plane speed which I think is about 30 or 35 mph. Maybe a little more at Tahoe. This is why I need a lot of seat time to see just how this thing turns and behaves under lots of various conditions. I watched the right sponson dip downward when turning left and vice versa. Guess I need to find out how much this happens at slow speeds at more and more truning angles. This will happen as soon as the weather gets warmer, but I am hopefull some of you good folks here on the OSO forum and help me with your insights.
Rick |
Originally Posted by KNOT-RIGHT
(Post 3285336)
I respectfully disagree:drink:
The operational skill to operate a cat in the rough is far greater then a vee. Cats will actually fly across the waves. This is where there will be a narrower margin in operating it safely. A vee will plow through the rough at a lower speed lending itself to a bigger margin for safety. Take two top throttle men put one in a 47 vee the other in a 46 Cat and run them side by side the cat will be faster. |
Originally Posted by BowenCT
(Post 3285363)
That's an interesting perspective. Can't say I have ever heard that before.
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1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 435518 Happy New Years Everybody!!!
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Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow
(Post 3285389)
I have owned ten cats over the years. I have blown engines, drives, transmission and even lost props. In every instance the boat simply slowed down. The worst was a blown number six at 150 mph, again slowed down. Made one heck of a noise and grinding. A skilled cat driver can run faster in rough water than a v hull. Many cats will lean into the turns slightly such as Skater and MTI.
Rick |
Originally Posted by FREEDOM US1
(Post 3285465)
Same here!! No big deal!! Higher speeds and hitting a wave that is bigger then most will be the one thing he will need to look out for, next thing you know is oh Chit!! I hope this thing lands good!!!
Even on my one outing, I had it up to about 70-80 in at least 3 ft chop, maybe a little more - middle of Lake Tahoe - extremely smooth ride with the feeling of a little bab, bab, bab of the wave tops from my seat and through my feet, and twice I could tell the boat came out of the water. No drama, NOTHING. Completely level and stable. Just the realization that I made a little jump. Rick |
Originally Posted by SVL-WARLOCK
(Post 3285644)
I barrel rolled a warlock 25 cat at 80 mph. Did no damage at all to the boat. Had it flipped right side up and took her to the shop, got the motor running and back on the lake that day. Awesome boat. driver error.
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Originally Posted by Expensive Date
(Post 3285704)
I have no cat experience so I can't help you,and while there are many knowledgeable people on this board you are not going to learn the theroy of how your hull operates here.You really need to talk to a guy like Tres or some one who can teach you.You need to understand why the boat does this "not do this when it does this."
Rick |
Originally Posted by TahoeRick
(Post 3285723)
I will google the Tres Martin class and see what it entails. Thanks!
Rick Call anytime. 954 560 9080 Brad |
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