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When is fast too fast?

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Old 04-03-2011, 10:41 AM
  #101
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What has fast pleasure boats, snowmobiles or XXX have to do with Motorsport???
* Nothing cause the arenīt prepared for racing 100%... NONE.
Huh?

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Donīt Consider racing either then cause thereīs lots of rules there too...
I don't race; Most of us here don't.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:26 AM
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Huh?
you mentioned Motorsport here...

Remember


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I don't race; Most of us here don't.
I can tell, thats why you talk about Motorsport and Recreational Vehicles in the same sentence and blend them.

Last edited by MikeyFIN; 04-03-2011 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:46 AM
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you mentioned Motorsport here...

Remember
I can tell, thats why you talk about Motorsport and Recreational Vehicles in the same sentence and blend them.
I guess you're right that motorsport technically refers to racing but I used it for lack of a better word to mean any form of motorized recreational vehicle. You are right there is a difference I didn't realize until I googled the definition.
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PARADISE ISLAND View Post
I do race and raced a boat smaller than yours with a big block around the same speed!ever see on a Dingy it says no more than 3-5 hp motor why?It's not made for a 25hp Mercury!!Quick story guy in NY converted a Bosten whaler to a duck boat almost home ramed into marker pole#13 he died passengers hurt bad lost focus to drain boat for a second 15-25 mph tops!Now you hit it @80 22' single 525hp or more more of a chance of death or serious injury!Bigger twin not out of control less chance just my 02!
You just can't make blanket statements based on hull length. There are 22 Classics running over 100 mph and doing so safely. Here is an 18' Donzi Classic with an arneson that runs well over 100 mph. http://www.donzi.net/forums/video.ph...ils&videoid=19

Now a typical 22' Vee bottom with less deadrise and different hull design might be unsafe at much less speed.

The Donzi Classics are very predictable at high speed once you master how to drive them. Could something bad happen? Of course.
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:03 PM
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l.
Are we at the point where we need to start being concerned or even policing ourselves? Personally I think we're really close, if not already there. I fear we'll be reading some disturbing headlines in the not to distant future.
Hate to get more into this, BUT... Speed kills!!!???/ BEEeeeSSSSSsss.
A year or two ago several boaters got killed in Jacksonville, fl. by a girl driving a boat, hit a barge, drinking was an issue. 30-40 MPH. Speed was not a factor.
Guns kill?? NOOOOOooo.... people kill.
I have yet to see a 9MM get up walk around and go postal. I have yet so see a plywood with twin 1500's strapped on and No 6's and plow into a crowd. Why do some of you guys going after the product? and not the end user? Last summer a fraking drunk red neck with a john boat comes into the dock going about 15MPH. hits a boat, almost hits a boater and sais... "sorry" my shift cable went out... I couldn't stop. Now here is an idiot when I want my 9MM to take a walk by itself and take care of business. And yesssss we DO need to "police" ourself. You got the horses and the hardware.. go at it have fun, in the right place and the right time. I raced in the past, I drove my Katana 145+ and I felt safer than with my Magna going 125 and scared the $hit out of me. I drove the Autobonds as fast as the car could go. I felt safe. I drive on I-95 (70+-) and leaving a text message for my kids about my will becouse of "other" idiotic drivers. Going out on the weekend for just a casual boat ride going 30-40 and I have white knuckles due to some stupid boater who has no clue about operating a 17 fishing boat. Speed is not the issue, it's people. 10 MPH is TOOO fast when you have a moron behind the wheel, no matter what hardware is attached to the wheel.
Done with this.............
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:08 PM
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Hate to get more into this, BUT... Speed kills!!!???/ BEEeeeSSSSSsss.
A year or two ago several boaters got killed in Jacksonville, fl. by a girl driving a boat, hit a barge, drinking was an issue. 30-40 MPH. Speed was not a factor.
Guns kill?? NOOOOOooo.... people kill.
I have yet to see a 9MM get up walk around and go postal. I have yet so see a plywood with twin 1500's strapped on and No 6's and plow into a crowd. Why do some of you guys going after the product? and not the end user? Last summer a fraking drunk red neck with a john boat comes into the dock going about 15MPH. hits a boat, almost hits a boater and sais... "sorry" my shift cable went out... I couldn't stop. Now here is an idiot when I want my 9MM to take a walk by itself and take care of business. And yesssss we DO need to "police" ourself. You got the horses and the hardware.. go at it have fun, in the right place and the right time. I raced in the past, I drove my Katana 145+ and I felt safer than with my Magna going 125 and scared the $hit out of me. I drove the Autobonds as fast as the car could go. I felt safe. I drive on I-95 (70+-) and leaving a text message for my kids about my will becouse of "other" idiotic drivers. Going out on the weekend for just a casual boat ride going 30-40 and I have white knuckles due to some stupid boater who has no clue about operating a 17 fishing boat. Speed is not the issue, it's people. 10 MPH is TOOO fast when you have a moron behind the wheel, no matter what hardware is attached to the wheel.
Done with this.............
Good point,don't worry CMI has drastically reduced the number of boaters out there so it should no longer be a problem.
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:55 PM
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Done with this.............
Me too!

Kind of like asking if guns are too dangerous on NRA forums.
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:26 PM
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I am not sure I am understanding what you are saying. From what I read, it appears that you would blame and sue the boat manufacturer for building a fast boat for an inexperienced customer and would not blame the customer for a crash? How does that make any sense?

And since when does a boat that can eject a passenger equal an unsafe boat? You can be ejected from any boat, be it a sailboat, pontoon boat, CC, sportfisherman, or high performance. Are all these boats built unsafe? Should every boat made have a full canopy and rescue air?

What ever happened to personal responsibility? The freedom to buy what you want knowing full well the risks involved and owning up to it when something happens is what used to make this country a great place. Now you can buy what you want and when you screw up you can blame it on someone else who wasnt involved at all.

Maybe I wasnt seeing the sarcasm in your post and you didnt mean what you wrote, if so, I apologize.
If a performance boat cannot make an emergency turn at 135 mph then maybe it just isn't the operator's fault. Face fact, it has a design defect, or maybe it just an unsafe boat in that application. Sure it goes 135 mph in a straightline, on smooth water, and it should it is 40'+ long; but sooner or later it will need to make a right or left trun. If you sell this boat to a consumer who runs his new $1,000,000 boat up to the top speed, and needs to make an emregency turn, or heaven forbid he has to cross a wake from another boat (I did not say Ocean Wakes), and the boat launches, and ejects its passengers, then it is not just the operators fault. It can be expected and designed for that both of the scenarios could play out in the above example. Boats must be able to turn at speed and cross wakes, design accordingly.

I do not handle lawsuits, I do not advocate suing for the sheer sake of suing when someone's own negligent operation is to blame, but I don't buy the bullsh*t it is the operator's fault, and neither would a jury. If a manufacturer is to charge in the area of $600,000+ for a boat that was being operated at the intended speed by which was a major component of sale and one of the chief reasons why the buyer bought the boat, an average jury would not buy the bullsh*t it was all the driver's fault he should not have turned the wheel he was going too fast. Guess what happens next?

The politician gets wind of this and drafts a bill to have a speed limit to save lives, because in the example above the lives would have saved if the operator was traveling at a maximum speed of 65 mph not 135 mph. My point, reduce accidents, reduce being front page news, and reduce the likelihood of governmental interference. If you sell a product that is the fastest make sure it is safe, and do everything you, the manufacturer, can to protect yourself (liability wise).

Hope this clears it up, boater's are considered the privileged class in the eyes of the public. And when a huge dollar boat injures or kills the passenger(s) who is an innocent victim due to driver error coupled with a design defect (boat could not turn at WOT), then the answer is simple for the jury, guilty as charged.

I am a perfomance boater who does not want speed limiits or my freedoms taken away due to the error of others. I think most boats are built safely, and accidents happen. My $.02 opinion.

Last edited by Smarty; 04-03-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:39 PM
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If a performance boat cannot make an emergency turn at 135 mph then maybe it just isn't the operator's fault. Face fact, it has a design defect, or maybe it just an unsafe boat in that application. Sure it goes 135 mph in a straightline, on smooth water, and it should it is 40'+ long; but sooner or later it will need to make a right or left trun. If you sell this boat to a consumer who runs his new $1,000,000 boat up to the top speed, and needs to make an emregency turn, or heaven forbid he has to cross a wake from another boat (I did not say Ocean Wakes), and the boat launches, and ejects its passengers, then it is not just the operators fault. It can be expected and designed for that both of the scenarios could play out in the above example. Boats must be able to turn at speed and cross wakes, design accordingly.

I do not handle lawsuits, I do not advocate suing for the sheer sake of suing when someone's own negligent operation is to blame, but I don't buy the bullsh*t it is the operator's fault, and neither would a jury. If a manufacturer is to charge in the area of $600,000+ for a boat that was being operated at the intended speed by which was a major component of sale and one of the chief reasons why the buyer bought the boat, an average jury would not buy the bullsh*t it was all the driver's fault he should not have turned the wheel he was going too fast. Guess what happens next?

The politician gets wind of this and drafts a bill to have a speed limit to save lives, because in the example above the lives would have saved if the operator was traveling at a maximum speed of 65 mph not 135 mph. My point, reduce accidents, reduce being front page news, and reduce the likelihood of governmental interference. If you sell a product that is the fastest make sure it is safe, and do everything you can to protect yourself (liability wise).

Hope this clears it up, boater's are considered the privileged class in the eyes of the public. And when a huge dollar boat injures or kills the passgenger who is an innocent victim due to driver error coupled with a design defect (boat could not turn at WOT), then the answer is simple for the jury, guilty as charged.
I have to disagree, for this reason. I have operated and driven everything from cars, boats, airplanes, heavy machinery, and big trucks. Not one of them is safe to turn hard at speed, especially WOT. It is all related to situational awareness and knowing the limits and capabilities of your equipment. If the operator of a boat isnt aware of his surroundings and the capabilities of his boat, he shouldnt be driving it and HE is liable for his boat and passengers. Now if the boat manufacturer doesnt give new owners information about its cababilities, and info needed to operate it safely then maybe there might be some liability there. Another point is that every time you get in a car, plane or boat, there is risk involved. Accidents can and will happen and everyone should be aware of that and acknowledge the risks before doing it.
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Old 04-03-2011, 05:54 PM
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I have to disagree, for this reason. I have operated and driven everything from cars, boats, airplanes, heavy machinery, and big trucks. Not one of them is safe to turn hard at speed, especially WOT. It is all related to situational awareness and knowing the limits and capabilities of your equipment. If the operator of a boat isnt aware of his surroundings and the capabilities of his boat, he shouldnt be driving it and HE is liable for his boat and passengers. Now if the boat manufacturer doesnt give new owners information about its cababilities, and info needed to operate it safely then maybe there might be some liability there. Another point is that every time you get in a car, plane or boat, there is risk involved. Accidents can and will happen and everyone should be aware of that and acknowledge the risks before doing it.
I understand you point of of view, but a Judge or Jury will rule for the plaintiff's (injured party that is suing) in the above example, like or it not, that is the outcome.
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