Phillip/Shane You Guys around?
 

Phillip?Shane I think I remember you two are the resident skater dudes. If I'm right on either count I splashed my 32 this weekend and I am seeking a couple of answers, being a novice cat pilot and all. :D This sure as hell ain't no v! Nauti Kitty:cool:

How can I help?:confused: :D

Nautti Kitty,
Tell us more, are the motors out of break in? what do you feel? With 5 or 6" set backs the boat should be reacting well to trim. What rpm have you seen? I would think you are running 32" Lab cleavers, 14 1/2" or 15"? I find the 32' Skater runs well with either, but I like the acceleration of the 14 1/2" props better, and why waste HP spinning the 15", spin the pitch, not the Dia. If you like you can call me cell# 973.214.9686. Post the speeds and rpm, I am sure everyone would like to know.
Philip

Hi Guys
 

Thanks for ringing back guys. I have spent the last three weeks testing this damn boat every good day there was. jeez:rolleyes: Okay here goes. I'm up to 34 hours. Cautious beginning, never owning a cat and all, but i've got the groove now. I'm gettin 6000 -6100 r's max on the perfect day. I have tried 14.5 x 32 and 15 x 30's. on 6" setbacks 1.5 " high. 90 is tops with the 15's and 93 is tops with the 14.5's Mercury is redoing my 14.5's next week per jt at tnt to get the last 600-700 r's and gain speed too. Don't understand how but he says it will happen and he knows. I've run the props in and out and spinning in is way better. Bad around the dock, but the boat porpoised badly at all speeds when I turned them out. However I really only picked up 2 mph. Turning in is the only way to go on my boat. Strangely weight dosen't really make any difference, 1 or 2 mph dry versus full? How do outboards shift? Mine suck and I feel like they should be better. Any input from anyone is appreciated. Nauti Kitty:cool:

Parn, saw your boat sitting in the water at the Warf Saturday. NICE!!!!!!!!

Thanks dude. How's the boat running? I tore all over this weekend and never saw ya. Probably see ya thursday . NK:cool:

Nauti, this weekend I ran our 14.5x32 3 blade lab cleavers, spinning out. at 6,300 4 people,(2 males, 2 females) 1/2 tanks, 98 or 99 on Gafrig/Liv. gps, (2 males, 1/2 tanks, 6,500 102). I just got done breaking in a new powerhead. Last fall 1/4 tanks, cool air, (2 males, 104 or 105 GPS) From what you say I think the motors are too low, and would be the reason you find spinning "in" a little better. Start raising the motors. turn the props out I would send the props to Dennis Cavanaugh at Fon du Lac, and tell him you need all the RPM he can give you. I know TNT has the prop issue covered. I am sure JT. knows what he wants done to the props. This boat is very trim receptive. You have to fly the boat to get the last MPH out. Stick with the 14.5" 3 blade lab Mercury props. the 15" don't run as well. I have also ran 28" and 30" the 32" take a little longer to get there, but they are a little faster. How much water PSI are you getting? at wot you should see 13 lbs. any higher and you are too low with the engine height. according to your numbers, your slip is 17% very high for a Skater . this should be around 8 or 10% tops. once again, motors too low. Call me if you like cell# 973.214.9686. You are not going to get 600, or 700 rpm out of working the 32" props, the lopeing at all speeds once again sounds like the engines are too low. TNT is one of the best. I am sure you will be very happy with the boat.
Philip

Nauti, hey Dude I see you there. Call me tomorrow morning around 11:00 am NJ time. I will try to answer some of your questions.
Philip

Nauti,

If I can be of any help call me at 518-373-2633. Philip has hit every nail on the head and he is a set up feen! I would simply re-iterate everything he has said thus far but call me if you think i can help. Best of luck.

Shane

93 MPH also
 

[Hi Parnel My boat is running the same way 93 tops. The props are turning in and it is hard trim above 3 on blue water trim indc and still have water pressure. I'm running 15x30's and the only time the boat porpoised was at 72 MPH when it gets on the air pack. I have Lathem controls and the starboard shifter is very hard to move. The motors shift fine its the controls that seem to stick on my boat. But yes, shifting my boat sucks. Do you have water temp gauges? If yes do they reg above 100 degrees? When you are testing what is the water condition. I'm running in 2 to 3 foot chop with 4 foot rollers. It has been very hard to fly the boat with the rollers. Also it has been 90 degrees and up this would make me lose 10 MPH on my old 300 pro max.

Hi guys,

I don't shift mine unless I ABSOLUTELY have to. Hi-Perf outboards just don't like it. It seems to put excessive wear and tear on the clutches and gears. I generally will warm the engines up in neutral and shut off, then shift and re-fire in gear. A bit of a pain in the ass but easier on the units. As far as speed is concerned, this weather we are having in the NE is not conducive to making horsepower so it is difficult to make any comparisons due to the high humidity and even higher temps. Wait until the air dries out a bit. 15 inch diameter might be a bit wide on the diameter. Try 14.5's you may find them to accelerate harder and perform better overall.

If you trim the motors out and find water pressure dropping off then your motors are too high. If you have specific questions let me know.

It looked good for the few seconds we ran together, I was wanting to make a little run with you, but the boss pointed at the fuel gauges, I was low on fuel(excuses), and wanted to assure I could make it back to the marina. Midnight:cool:

Hey Midnight. Don't be waiting till there are waves so I gots no chance!:D

Shane? Phillip Thanks guys for the info. Hard to figure out how our collective boats can be so different. I simply cannot run my motors out. The boat just porposies on any water. Hydro I have tested now 40 hours many at perfect temps with no humidity. Mid 70's to mid 90's and I see almost no difference. In addition I lose at most 2 mph on full tanks versus nearly empty. I talked to guy at tnt on friday and he told me that these motors will not go to the max r's unless I have at least 12lbs of pressure. At 2.14 inches drive height I had 3-4 lbs. Obviously that did not work. At 1.5 inches I have 9.5 to 11 max. Nothing I try can get them over 12. My guess is that because I get to 6000'rs no matter what, but never more, I don't think it's the props, I think it's the motors. HYDRO My water temps run between 115-125 and they don't vary. Before I send my props out to merc I'm checking tommorrow with tnt about the 12 lb thing. I talked to chris at skater on friday about sending in a pair of props he gave me from mercury, which i tested for 10 minutes, to have the same things i have done on mine for you. He asked me to give you a shout cause he had tried. Anyway i will do that for you no problem but i'm going to wait until i find out everything about this water pressure thing. You may be having the same problem. I had my shifters adjusted and they worked fine all weekend until tonight when all of a sudden i can;t shift my port motor into forward.:o NK

Hydro The best speed waves for the boat seem to be a 1-2 foot tight chop with no boat wakes:eek: Rollers slow it down and don't expect a smoth ride on 4-5 footers like i got in on the 4th:rolleyes: I have gaffrig shifters so that ain't it. Shane Sounds like a crashbox to me:confused: No doubt that the boat is fun. Still have not convinced the wife about that though. :( Negotiations ongoing however:D Shane / Phillip i'm going to give both of you a shout monday or tuesday. Thanks guys.NK:cool:

Guys, I went over the numbers again, Water Pres. wot. 13-15 LBS, Temp at wot. Port motor, 175-180 Stbd motor 165 170, 14.5x32" Spinning out, 6400, 6500- 102MPH (4) people on board. Sunday, Put on new 14.5"x32 cleavers, fuel about the Same as Sat. (2) people on board, 6,500 103. fuel 90 to 100 gals. Speed Gaffrig GPS, Center line of prop shaft is 1.75" above bottom of sponson.
Philip

Philip Mabey you could help me out. I have a 30motion with twin1999 300s. you may have seen it at skater fest last year. White with twin canopies. Hear the question I am running 15x34 3bl lab cleavers, there the only props I have ever tried. Problem is acceleration is very poor but at top speed I'am on the rev limiters. Do you think 14.5 diameter would help acceleration but still keep rs down?
Thanks Michael

NK- Why don't you just get rid of those Jet-Ski motors and get some VERY BIG BLOCKS like that guy from East Lansing? Midnight (Or I could tape record my boat, and you can play it on a Ghetto blaster so it sounds like it looks:D ) Good Luck Midnght:cool:

The tight chop with no rollers or boat wakes are definitely the friend of the smaller Skaters. I have found 14.5 X 30 Merc labbed cleavers to be agood all around combination. The 28's definitely accelerate harder but lose their legs on the big end. The 30's have the big end run but lack a little in the rough stuff. I have found the weight factor to be minor in terms of top end overall speed. 3 to 5 mph on the biog end but acceleration and planing time if what becomes more troublesome with additional weight. I would HIGHLY reccommend you spin 'em OUT an out ONLY, prmarily for saftey reasons. I would be happy to assist further if I can be of help.

Shane:cool:

mjuwalters, yes I remember seeing your boat, This is very interesting, 1999 300 promax, sportmaster gear cases, 1:62 gears? am I right about this so far? the promax's have the rev limiters set at 6,400 rpm or so. Do you hear the over rev horns come on? How fast are you running? we had 1998 300 promax's on a 28' Skater, ane spun 14.5x32" 3 blade Lab Cleavers spinning out at 6300 or 6400. The 15x34 cleavers should not be able to hit the limiters. Are you sure the props are in fact 34" ? The props might have been marked wrong. the 14.5x32" cleavers will only hit the limiters faster. The 28' Skater spun the props out, yes we could hit the limiters with the 32" props, light on fuel, into the wind, and 115 mph. But never on a regular day. I tried the 14.5x34 cleavers, but they only spun 6100 or so, and the acceleration was not good. the 34" props took forever to get to top rpm. I never heard on anyone with the 1:62 gears run out of prop with the 34" props. What is the speed again.
Philip

Phillip Thanks for your reply. my props are15x34 from mercs lab. big prop shaft. My rev limiters are kicking in about 6000 and are sounding the warning horn . Speed on a good day in fresh water on gps has been best at109 . Still learning boat, its very trim sensitive. Thats with 100lb of lead in the bow. I do have a fair amount of porpise at cruise speed 65to80. At 4000rpm speed is 64mph Yes it a 1.61 gear. props turning out. Water pressure is 15lbs + at top speed motors are 2in above the bottom on 5in cmc manuel jacks.
So what do you think I know it will not be as fast as a 28 skateer but still trying. Still accelaration is poor untill about4000rpm . Looks like the numbers are close to what you are saying except my rev limiters are set low. Do you have access to a pair of square hub 32s I could try? Rapair can reset the rev limit in my ecus.
Thank You
Michael

ttt

Hi mjuwalters,
you are right, the numbers are close. I did not know the rev limiters were set at 6000 on your motors. Did you have that done? As far as I knew the limit is 6400 or so. This would explain a lot. I think you have to have the limiters reset to 6400 to begin dialing in the boat. I think the 100 pounds in the bow is way too much. The most we ever ran in the 28' Skater was 35 pounds in each sponson, and that was only when the water really got bad. Your boat is bigger then the 28' Skater, and should not need any weight except on the very bad days. Our Skater had the 5" set backs also, and the attitude can easily be adjusted with the engine trim. Please forgive me, but do you have a lot of time in the boat yet? most people that do not always think the boats are too light in the bow, but don't worry, It will be fine without any weight. There are quite a few 30' Spec's ( very similiar to your boat) running here in NJ with 300's and I don't think anyone is running weight in the bow. Get the weight out, and get the limiters up to 6400 and see what the true speed is. As far as the 14'5' props, lets see what the 15x34's do.
Philip

Philip your right I do not have a lot of time in this boat. I put weight in to try to stop the porpise,did not help. I had a hydratech with triple omc v8 for about 10yrs. Big difference. No I did not change the rev limiters, just lucky I suppose. I'am thinking about a tunnel tab to stop the porpise. Ido agree with you the ecus need a trip to rapair ,$250 ea to reset rev limits.
I will try to get down your way sometime and we will go for a ride, or if you come up to the chesapeake we will go out for the day. I will keep you informed of my progress.
Thank You
Michael

Mjuwalters,
The weight will not help with the porpoise; Those at Skaterfest will remember Peter calling it the “Linder lope” and George called it the “Hledin Hop” Good natured kidding. But this is the hull starting to pack, and spill air in the tunnel. Once the hull gets up on the bubble, “air pack” it will go away. The 28’ and the 32’ Skater both do it. Just run faster! Remove the weight and post the 112 mph you will run. The aerodynamics of your boat are very good. This boat will be fast for promax’s. I only wonder what happened to the rev limiters? Please keep us posted, and fly that boat, it will not get too light. Spin those props out.
Philip

DITTO!:D

Philip Ok, I'am taking your advice. It dam near killed me, crawing up into those little holes to get to the bow to pull out four 25lb bags of lead shot. They seem heavier then I remember.Soon as I get a chance to run I'll let you know the results. The porpose does not stop till about 80mph, some days a little to fast for the chesapeke bay.Mabey i'll have to install five point harness, the girls might complain, it could chafe them in the wrong places. If you what I mean. Remember I am running in fresh water , a couple of miles an hour slower then salt I think. Thanks for your continuing advice, my experience is with a much heaver and different hull.
Shane and philip you should try to get down to the chesapeake, there are some cool places to go. If you can get the chance, let me know well plan something. There is a poker run july20th. It should be pretty cool.
Michael

mjuwalters,
I have to give you an attaboy. That sure was a lot of weight. putting 100 lbs that far in front of the CG has a much more profound effect then at the CG or behind it. The boat really come alive now. As far as the lope, if you find yourself having to run at that speed, (water condition, timid passenger) I can get rid of most of it by trimming "in" not best for fuel burn, but lowering the bow will help. as you get past the 75-80 mph speed, bring the trim out. As you get more time in the boat you will feel more comfortable really flying the boat. Don't be alarmed with the flighty feeling! this is how a cat runs. Most "v" bottom owners making the transition to a cat are not comfortable at first, but you will learn to love the feeling of Low Level Flight. If the boat is balanced well, and I see no reason a 30' motion with 300 promax's will have any balance issues, the boat will fly level and straight. Again, the trim button is your friend. If you really want to feel "Flight on the edge", go for a ride with Shane, 24' 500 hp, glue some feathers on his boat, and he will head south for the winter. Please keep us posted.
Philip

In Gear?
 

Hi Parnell
What was the cause of the shifter problem? Could you get the port motor to shift into reverse? Did you get the water pres thing fixed.
Hydro

Hydro,
I have found that when one of these motors have a hard time shifting out of forward or reverse, the cause is the engine is not going into dead idle, even 100 or 150 rpm's will cause this. there is a idle stop that must come into full contact for the motor to shift easily. It will shift from the arm, but not from the control lever. Take the cover off, and check that the stop is fully contacting,
Philip

Philip/Shane
Thanks for the time guys, both of you had good insights and I appreciate the info. With my new props I got 97 , still not enough but i am moving closer. Talking to numerous people i am now focusing on the width of the motors and if you guys and hydro and anyone else with a small skater could tell me their centerline measurements i would appreciate it. Hydro, there is a screw on the top of the shifting mechanism in the motor itself that keeps loosening up and makes shifting worse as it loosens. I now tighen it every few times out and it shifts a little better. I am planning on replaceing that particular item soon so maybe it will quite coming out of adjustment. Let me know how you are doing. NK:cool:

Hi Nauti,
Glad to see things are going in the right direction, Tell me the new info. rpm. at wot. speed, which props, and which way are they spinning? I was going to talk to you about the centerline measurements of the prop shafts, Most people rig the motors too far apart.This weekend I will go over the heights and the centerline meas. I feel these meas. are very important. Please let me know the rpm etc. did you feel the boat fly better with more positive trim?
Philip

philip
 

I was able to run my boat this week end .With two people app. 40 gal. fuel speed 109.2 hard on the rev limiters. I guess I will not see much more untill I send ecus to rapair. It did accelrate much better and was more nimble without the extra bow weight. Thanks for the help, any other ideas I would glad to listen to
Mabey I'll get a chance to come down to jersey. I would like see what difference it would make running in salt water

Thanks Michael:
ps the 300s seem to shift fine even with 34s

speed

mjuwalters,
If you sent the 34's to the rev limiters, (6,000) rpm there is only one thing to do, Raise the limiters. I am glad the boat feels lose and flighty. 109.2 is very good. If the limiters are set for 6450 and you hit them your speed will be awsome. I don't think the 34's will get to 6,400, but I sure hope so. The boat must be running nice and light if you feel the 34's are spinning up fast. On our 32' Skater the 34's are too fat. Sat. I am going to check the centerline meas. and post it for you. I would like to know what your engines are set at. Meas center of prop shaft to center of the other one.

Philip

Philip The motors centers are 62in. as reconmendated by motion. This hull has a wide tunnel at 45in. I still had have good water pressure port side14lb starb side puts the 15lb gauge on the pin. I going to raise the starb. motor just a tweak. I will have the rev limiters reset, but I do not expect 400rpm increase but if there is 50 rpms left I want it. Know what I mean? Thanks for you advice. I will keep you up to date.
What year is your 32 twins or triple what speed are you grtting ? I just sold my 32 hydra tech with triple v8 evinrudes. Was able to run 97 on a good day. The new owner is a good friend. He has motors at wayne taylors for the full works. Iam curious to how it will work out for him . Have a good weekend mICHAEL

Head wind
 

My Port motor still only revs to 5700. I am waiting to down load the computer. When you are running 97 does the boat feel like it is flying? If you run into the wind it should lift the hull and go faster. Even with both motors turning less than 6,000 I see a 3 MPH difference running into the wind. I have over trimmed my boat and still does not seem to pack enough air to fly the hull. I will take a prop shaft CL measurement Sun.

Hydro Flying
 

I believe the 300x's are supposed to turn 7000 RPM and produce about 330 HP at that speed. However, Powerboat alluded to a "dyno sheet" that Jim S. at Mercury showed their writer indicating 327 hp at MUCH lower RPM... The writer seemed like a bit of a dope so it might have been a mistake.

MJU....With all due respect to your manufacturer.....those centerlines seem MUCH too wide apart.....IMO.

T2x

T2X Thanks for the input. What are the centers on your 28, how wide is the tunnel? Om my 33 ft hydratech the centers were57in. but tunnel was not as wide .What effect would wide centers have? Thanks Michael

Mike:

The Hydra tech info is probably not equatable to your new boat as the HT's had a lot less tunnel lift. Generally, I suggest OB centerlines to be approximately..3 1/2" outside of the tunnel wall....... This places the prop in the max water flow exiting the tunnel and makes the boats more responsive in turns....... However, this can aggravate boats that are spinning "backwards"..... (spinning "in"......which I am against in any circumstances)....... since the closer positioning of the motors narrows the "stance" somewhat and can reduce the lateral stability which is already badly compromised by reversing prop direction.

Good Luck

T2x