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Merc 600 faster than a Ilmor 710??

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Old 07-25-2011, 09:20 AM
  #21
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Where did this come from???

This test information at this date seems a little pointless. The Merc 600sci's are no longer offered, so it seems less than important to compare it with an offering that Ilmor continues to produce and sell?
Comparing these two engine packages seems a bit of the mark and like comparing a Navel range to a Valencia orange, they are both oranges but still not the same.
The Merc 600 produced about 675HP at the crankshaft and the Ilmor 710 produces about 710HP at the crankshaft so their seems to be a definite horsepower difference. The low end torque of the 600 is definitely greater than the Ilmor at lets say between 3000 rpms and 4000 rpms and they get close to equal somewhere around 5000 rpms , where the 600 peaks HP at about 5300 rpms and the Ilmor peaks at about 6000 rpms. There is really no way these two engines will be propped the same with the same final drive ratio the same so they cannot be compared with same drive ratio and same prop spec.
Merc obviously knew that the 600 sci was underpowered for its cost and configuration and elected to remake the 600 as the newer 700sci and there is a current engine that can be compared to the Ilmor 710's. Still a great bit of difference there too as one is supercharged and one is naturally aspirated, so differences still exist. Comparing a Skater w/Ilmor 710 to a Cigarette with a 700sci is also not a good equal playing field comparison.
Conclusion:
Both Merc Racing and Ilmor make great marine performance engines and each has good choices for owners and boat builders to draw from and fill the "NEED for SPEED"!
This post is starting to sound like a winter time "Cabin Fever" banter post, with that I am back to "Summer"!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:30 AM
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"Comparing a Skater w/Ilmor 710 to a Cigarette with a 700sci is also not a good equal playing field comparison."
Hence, the party smiley!
I was actually impressed with how well the cigarette ran!
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:35 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Raylar View Post
This test information at this date seems a little pointless. The Merc 600sci's are no longer offered, so it seems less than important to compare it with an offering that Ilmor continues to produce and sell?
Comparing these two engine packages seems a bit of the mark and like comparing a Navel range to a Valencia orange, they are both oranges but still not the same.
The Merc 600 produced about 675HP at the crankshaft and the Ilmor 710 produces about 710HP at the crankshaft so their seems to be a definite horsepower difference. The low end torque of the 600 is definitely greater than the Ilmor at lets say between 3000 rpms and 4000 rpms and they get close to equal somewhere around 5000 rpms , where the 600 peaks HP at about 5300 rpms and the Ilmor peaks at about 6000 rpms. There is really no way these two engines will be propped the same with the same final drive ratio the same so they cannot be compared with same drive ratio and same prop spec.
Merc obviously knew that the 600 sci was underpowered for its cost and configuration and elected to remake the 600 as the newer 700sci and there is a current engine that can be compared to the Ilmor 710's. Still a great bit of difference there too as one is supercharged and one is naturally aspirated, so differences still exist. Comparing a Skater w/Ilmor 710 to a Cigarette with a 700sci is also not a good equal playing field comparison.
Conclusion:
Both Merc Racing and Ilmor make great marine performance engines and each has good choices for owners and boat builders to draw from and fill the "NEED for SPEED"!
This post is starting to sound like a winter time "Cabin Fever" banter post, with that I am back to "Summer"!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Ray,
Don't know where you heard that the 600 Sci is being dropped by merc..... Here it is listed on their website,

http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/hp600sci.php



and in fact AT just debuted 37' w/ 600Sci's


http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...poker-run.html.

And I agree comparing 600 Sci's and Ilmore 7-10s are apples to oranges....
Dean
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Last edited by Dean Ferry; 07-26-2011 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 07-25-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylar View Post
This test information at this date seems a little pointless. The Merc 600sci's are no longer offered, so it seems less than important to compare it with an offering that Ilmor continues to produce and sell?
Comparing these two engine packages seems a bit of the mark and like comparing a Navel range to a Valencia orange, they are both oranges but still not the same.
The Merc 600 produced about 675HP at the crankshaft and the Ilmor 710 produces about 710HP at the crankshaft so their seems to be a definite horsepower difference. The low end torque of the 600 is definitely greater than the Ilmor at lets say between 3000 rpms and 4000 rpms and they get close to equal somewhere around 5000 rpms , where the 600 peaks HP at about 5300 rpms and the Ilmor peaks at about 6000 rpms. There is really no way these two engines will be propped the same with the same final drive ratio the same so they cannot be compared with same drive ratio and same prop spec.
Merc obviously knew that the 600 sci was underpowered for its cost and configuration and elected to remake the 600 as the newer 700sci and there is a current engine that can be compared to the Ilmor 710's. Still a great bit of difference there too as one is supercharged and one is naturally aspirated, so differences still exist. Comparing a Skater w/Ilmor 710 to a Cigarette with a 700sci is also not a good equal playing field comparison.
Conclusion:
Both Merc Racing and Ilmor make great marine performance engines and each has good choices for owners and boat builders to draw from and fill the "NEED for SPEED"!
This post is starting to sound like a winter time "Cabin Fever" banter post, with that I am back to "Summer"!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Ray,

Respectfully, you missed the point.

How does one get a 710 to outperform the merc 600 in a 28ft, talon based, single engine, 5000lb deckboat?

I just thought that a comparison to the 600 would give a clue as to what should be changed to run the ilmor.

Obvious answer: 1) slow the prop to 3800 rpm with a 1.65 gear change (this would be similar to the 600) 2) move or add 250lbs to the engine compartment.

I think that weakens the drive and who wants extra weight. Is there something else that should be done such as a standoff, x-dimension, and or prop

Last edited by vtown; 07-25-2011 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:32 PM
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Do you own this boat?

You've gotten a few tips already.

It can take a dozen or more trial runs just to get the ideal prop for a given rig.



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Old 07-26-2011, 08:53 AM
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Dean and others
I stand corrected again. I had heard the 600sci was only being made as the 662sci for use in Europe and the 700sci was replacing the 600sci. This was conversation back in 07'-08' and I just never kept up on their continued offering. My mistake, I guess to busy with other things to stay up on all Merc's offerings.
In any event properly comparing these two engine packages in any boat would require the builder to dial in the setups to hopefully achieve best performance with both engine, drive and prop setups.

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Ray @ Raylar
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:03 PM
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I would think that the 710 would be faster than the 600 if they both were stock. If the Merc has been reflashed with a different pulley then it should run away from the Ilmor. In stock configuration are you saying the 710 is slower than the 600? I thought the 600 in stock form was unresponsive and unimpressive. After it was reset...Wow! big difference
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed H2O View Post
Agreed! All the testing we did at Donzi, the ILMOR was ALWAYS FASTER.
When did you do the test at Donzi with the Ilmor?

What boat or boats were used in the test?

What drives were used in the test?

Thanks.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxalot View Post
I would think that the 710 would be faster than the 600 if they both were stock. If the Merc has been reflashed with a different pulley then it should run away from the Ilmor...
+1. Gets my vote here.
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Old 07-26-2011, 09:23 PM
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yes the problem seems to be the setup.

I think the problem is bow lift with these deck boats. relaxalot and others say that the P5X is the best running prop. From what I understand P5X is a bow lifting prop with a little extra transom lift due to the 5 blade.

The ilmor boats don't respond the same to the p5x.

Would higher prop rpm and lighter engine cause the transom to lift more making an even bigger problem with bow lift?

What can be changed with the bravo prop to decrease transom lift?
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