Like Tree0Likes

drive gear help needed 1:36 vs 1:50

Reply
Old 06-13-2002, 08:22 AM
  #1
Registered
Thread Starter
 
thunderdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: medford, nj usa
My Boats: 37 Active Thunder
Posts: 2,185
Default drive gear help needed 1:36 vs 1:50

We are still dialing in my boat and I need some clarification and some assistance in understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the 2 gear ratios.

I am running 1:36 gears in my xr drive now. We have gotten best speeds to date out of a 32 labbed bravo I, 95mph at 5100 rpms. So it looks like our orgional thought of going with the 1:36 gears because we would run out of props was wrong.

What advantages or distadvantages are there running 1:36 gears over the 1:5's. I have heard that the lowers on the 1:36 are stronger because less teeth to break, but I have also heard that they maybe slower than the 1:5, and the 1:36 do not have as good of throttle response? So hopefully some of my fellow oso brothers have already been through all this and can share your experiences and some of those who are knowledgeable on the topic.

I think that the boat has the potential to be faster than it is and I am looking at the gears/drives as one of the places that is robbing power. I am wondering if the lowers on the xr's are dragging to much, the gears slowing us down, etc....

Last edited by thunderdan; 06-13-2002 at 08:33 AM.
thunderdan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 08:33 AM
  #2
Offshoreonly Advertiser
Offshoreonly Advertiser
 
Mbam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Pompano Beach FL, USA
My Boats: 1972 Cigarette 36 race
Posts: 2,048
Default

Take a look at All about drive ratios and see if it helps any.
__________________
Marc

www.mercruiserparts.com
www.go-fast.com
www.bammarine.com
www.cyborgtransmissions.com
It's alive -www.BoatStuffExpress.com - additional 10% discount for OSO members
Mbam is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 08:43 AM
  #3
Registered
 
Hessdk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 165
Default

Thunderdan, I think it will come down to personal preference. I had a 26' Thoroughbred with a 765 HP blower motor. I originally started out with 1.50 gears and a 28" Hydromotive. I was turning 5800-5900 RPM. I saw radar speeds of 91-93 MPH. I really wanted to slow the RPM's down because of the cam size. So when I went to 1.36 gears with the same prop size I then turned 5300-5400 RPM and saw about the same speed, maybe 1-2 MPH faster. It does seem to take more power to turn the 1.36's but if you have a strong engine you won't notice much of a difference. It also seemed to take a little longer to get stretched out on top end, but it wasn't much difference. For me personally I liked the 1.36's for the reduced RPM, and for a faster cruise because I was able to turn the same size prop. As far as the strength, because of less teeth there is more "meat" on the 1.36's. If you have the 1.50's readily available I would test them and compare. As you know all boats, props, engines etc. like different combinations, and setups!! Hope this helps.

Last edited by Hessdk; 06-13-2002 at 09:59 AM.
Hessdk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 09:32 AM
  #4
Registered
 
jdnca1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: KY
Posts: 1,099
Default

Thunderdan;

Depends on where your motor likes to run, how its cammed, etc. You will accelerate harder with a 1.5 over the 1.36. I know several people who have tried both and generally agree with the above statement. Typically people go to a 1.36 because they run out of prop or want to pull down the r's, like blower guys who want to turn 5400.
jdnca1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 09:56 AM
  #5
Registered
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: LaPorte IN.
My Boats: 1997 23' WPM Cat!!
Posts: 1,296
Default Is there more HP loss with one than

the other? I they both require about the same amount of HP to turn the same RPM. The key is the prop. Yes, if you keep the same prop and go to a 1.5 ratio there will be an RPM increase in the motor, but is the prop turning more RPM? That is what determines how fast you are going. Let's say you turn a 32" 5100 through a 1.36 gear and go 91 MPH. If you change gears to a 1.5 ratio you would have to spin the motor 5625 RPM to turn the prop the same RPM as the 1.36 at 5100. Would there be a speed increase? It depends on where your motor is designed to run. If you keep the same prop and go to a 1.5 ratio and the motor turns it 5900 RPM because it is getting into a "happier" point in the power band, then it will be going faster. Here is the thing. You can do the same thing with a prop change. Drop down to a 30 or maybe a 30 lab and see what happens. Again there will be an increase in RPM, and if it moves the motor into its power band there will probably be a speed increase. In my opinion the gear ratio chosen is personal preferance. If you are running a 1.5 ratio and turnung a 36" bravo 1 prop to the max of your RPM limit, switch to a 1.36. This will give you the ability to use a lot more props. There are tons of props out there in the 26 through 32 pitch range and if you can't use them you are going to be limited to what is available. Just my opinion ans usual. Good testing!!!
WETTE VETTE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 11:01 AM
  #6
Registered
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, NJ
My Boats: 2004 PANTERA SURVIVOR
Posts: 513
Default

the 1:50 is generally faster. we used to use the 1:36 for rough races because they would not break as much. that was before the creation of the xz and xr. a 1:50 xr is a pretty tough drive. if your racing sombody it's not all about top end. you also need accleration. as posted in the previous post you will get with a 1:50. also yes, you went to a 1:36 if there was no prop left. now they make large enough props now you don't need them.

Treadwellmotorsports.com

Treadwell
Treadwellmotorsports is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 11:14 AM
  #7
Registered
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: LaPorte IN.
My Boats: 1997 23' WPM Cat!!
Posts: 1,296
Default

I personally like a 1.5 ratio and a motor that can sing 6000 plus rpm. Awesome acceleration and if the motor can pull the R's the top end will be good too. On my Baja I turn a 29" Spinelli 6300 RPM for a top end of 97.8 on GPS. The top end is nice, but the acceleration is the real thrill. When crusing at 3000 RPM the R's go instantly to 5500 when the hammer drops. That surge of power is worth a few MPH on top to me. Probably not the best for endurance racing though.
WETTE VETTE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 11:31 AM
  #8
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
mcollinstn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: tn
My Boats: 1991 F311SR1
Posts: 5,491
Default

Parasitic power loss through a drive comes primarily from one source: friction. There is friction at every seal, bearing, and gear face. At any speed above "motionless", friction increases with speed (there are odd applications where this does not occur, but for our purposes we can pretend this is fact).

With this firmly in hand, we can then assume that the numerically higher a drive ratio is, the slwer the output section will spin in relation to the input section. Theoretically, this would mean that a 1.36:1 ratio would require more hp to spin than a 1.50:1 which would require more than a 1.65:1 which would require more than a 2:1 and so on... The actual measurement of this power loss is up for debate.

I think a much more important factor in making a ratio decision is the available propellors on the market. While it is a comforting concept to believe that a 26" Brand "A" Style "Q" prop behaves exactly as a 28" or 30" pitch Brand "A" Style "Q" prop, but at different rpm, this is not fact at all. The dynamic nature of water is such that each prop pitch has a range of "sweet spot" in regards to rpm, hull efficiency, and vessel weight that makes it either a better or worse choice for a particular application. For example, on a particular hull and power combination, a 28" pitch "A/Q" at 5400 rpm may indeed be a faster and better choice than a 30" "A/Q" at 5225 rpm.

It truly gets confusing and science can not do the testing for us.

I have a 1991 F311SR1 with 502 Carb motors. I have 1.36:1 ratios. My boat has ALWAYS been faster than two identical 1990 F311SR1 boats equipped identically, but with 1.50:1 drives. The difference is less than 2 mph, but more than 1 mph. My boat was also exactly the same speed as a 1992 F292SR1 with identical power and 1.50:1 drives. Granted, I have never swapped drives for true comparison, but since I have blown 3 1.36:1 drives through the years, I have never been inclined to try the slightly-weaker 1.50s.

I hear that 1.50s give better acceleration and top speed but I can't understand why they would do so. If you use the same prop, then the acceleration component is a given. If you prop up for parity, then I would imagine that the edge would go to the unit that had the more efficient prop for the circumstances.

I used to dragrace an outboard. I had a 1.87:1 ratio and found a 26" pitch prop that worked really well. It worked better than a 24" pitch prop that I also had, but the motor wasn't turning up enough at the end of a run. I tried 22's 24's 26's and 28's. I had a sweet 28, but it was far too much prop for a qtr mile. Bottom line was that I could not find a way to make any 24 run like the 26 I had. I used the 26 in anything but glass water (where the 24 had an edge). When I grenaded the gears, I decided to go to a 2:1 ratio for an experiment. This put my 26 right in the sweet spot. Heaven (scary heaven, that is..). A fast mother. Could actually run with the 28 if I wanted to, but the 26 was the beauty. I dogeared it on a log in testing one day and was afraid I would never get it back right, but a rework brought it back exactly as it had been (luck, I'm telling you). This story is for mo other reason than to point out that sometimes a particular prop is the magic answer for a hull/power combination, and that you may even gear to suit a particular prop, as opposed to the other way around.

As always, testing on your boat is the only way to know for sure.
mcollinstn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 04:24 PM
  #9
Registered
Thread Starter
 
thunderdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: medford, nj usa
My Boats: 37 Active Thunder
Posts: 2,185
Default

Thanks for all the responses, we are trying a non labbed 30 bravo i, if the rain in florida stops. After that I am hoping to swap the lowers and try some 32's to see if there is a reaql difference. I will let you all know.

I am willing to give up a bit of throttle response for a little stronger drive.
thunderdan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2002, 04:56 PM
  #10
Charter Member#1545
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Grand Junction, Co.
My Boats: Boating,Motorcycling,Snowmobiling
Posts: 879
Default

Dan, this is a little off thread topic, but what were your findings when testing the 5 blade props??? Any info would be appreciated. My understanding on the strength issues involving the 1.36 vs 1.5 is when utilizing the 1.36 you are turning a smaller pitch prop, therefore decreasing load on said drive. Good luck and have fun. Thanks much.

Last edited by Neverfastenuf; 06-13-2002 at 05:05 PM.
Neverfastenuf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ak
General Q & A
2
05-23-2008 04:27 AM
nocigarette
General Q & A
11
09-29-2006 06:30 PM
Ms PatriYacht
General Racing Discussion
41
11-09-2004 01:26 PM
WETTE VETTE
General Q & A
2
02-23-2004 05:16 PM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:02 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.