Tips for driving stepped bottom boats
 

In reading the post about the Outerlimits that spun and sunk it got me to thinking about a few things. The first is that there are some do's and don't of driving a step bottom boat, the second is that if anyone is not 100 percent comfortable behind the wheel of their boat, then they need to get seat time, like we all say.

I thought it maybe a good idea to hear from some of the experienced step bottom boat owners on some of those do's and don't.

I know that I had about a three hour session with Pat of AT two weeks ago about drive position in turns, not letting off the throttles etc.

Lets hear some other tips in handling a step bottom boat, maybe it will help some others.

115 views and no posts?

Well my first tip is that you do not let off the throttle when going into a turn, you change the planing surface of the boat and may catch your step.

C'mon.. Treadwell tinsen should pipe up for this one, no sarcasm intended (For once) but nothing beats first hand knowladge. All I know is to eas up on the Tabs in a turn with a step bottom and keep the drives in the water. Other than that its a quick sighn of the cross and hang on!

Not that experienced but...
 

What I've learned from first hand driving, is that the boat behaves much better trimmed out and running on the step. When the nose is biting the water, the ride is not very pleasant... :rolleyes: I'm still accumulating "seat time", and I'm sure there's a LOT more to learn. I've had many discussions with more experienced powerboaters about do's and don'ts. For example: In my boat you don't "trim down" in turns, or slowing down to idle, as much as other boats, as mine tends to list to the left (prop torque). I drive an '01 Warlock 25 World Class, and have been in a few "harrowing" situations, but with the help of this board, and some very experienced boatfriends I'm learning what to, and what not to do. I'm looking forward to seeing what other's have to say in this post! :)

Although I am not a step bottom owner, SEAT TIME is highly recommended. Other than that, why do so many feel they must turn a boat so hard at such a high speed? :confused: Unless you are on a closed course of competition, or something puts you in immediate danger of a collision, I don't see the purpose.

Twin engine config., use the throttles to get you through it. If you're turning to port, backoff the port engine, and vice versa. Feathering the throttles makes for an easier turn.

These are Offshore boats. We cannot expect them to turn like a Formula One tunnel boat. It just won't happen...;) Just my .02 worth...:(

Thunderdan,
You are correct about not getting off the throttles in a turn. I found out the exciting way. I was running in a three-foot chop on Lake Michigan. I was running at 70with the boat set at 5.5 trim and no tabs. I had a sea gull appear out of no where so I cut the throttles and turned the wheel hard. If you have ever been in a Mastercraft you know what happened, a perfect washout. The boat came around in slow motion 180 degrees and stopped. Scared the hell out of the bird and me. :eek: On my boat you need to have the trim at 3, which is neutral, to bang a hard corner. Never back off the throttles in a corner. I think I read a post that the 37 likes positive trim in a corner. My boat has a 1" step, which is quite different from the 37 set up. Does the 37 run the props in or out?

Another difference is the step boats want to ride level. You don't get the bow lift that a regular deep-v gets when trimmed way up.

Those who PM you negatively are just jealous! Your boat looks great and after a little fine-tuning will be perfect.

Dan

well I just got my first stepped hull this year its a early Harry Schoell DDC 25' hull very much like a AT It rides great seams to handle well , the trim is a bit touchy blows out at speed, but that may be cause I'm still trying to find that sweet spot.
Its the first boat that I don't think I need trim tabs on it
I do wish I had found it with a big block. the 350mag is pretty good on the gas. speed is a little slow 52 GPS with a full tank
3 adults full cooler , 8 gal freshwater tank
If myself no water 1/4 tank running light is 56 gps

I agree with Sharkey, I usually don't see the need for turning real sharp. I heard that you should NEVER trim down in a turn with a step bottom. I usually trim down a little and let the boat react before entering the turn.

I have had several V bottom boats that you could crank about as hard as you wanted in a turn without consequence. About the only worry was having the prop blow out and come off plane. I am still getting seat time in my PQ340 (60 hours), but I am amazed at how well the boat will crank a turn. She feels like a V bottom....at slower speeds. I too do not see the need to crank a high speed turn. At least, not yet. Fortunately, I have gotten over the habit of trimming down into the turn.

Sharkey, thanks for the tip about feathering the throttles. I will try that this weekend! :cool:

macklin

I don't worry about it - I have a Thoroughbred :D... ...Steve Stepp got it right without having to ventilate the bottom.

that's open ended question if i ever heard one. i think you'll do just fine....work on your throttling and trin'n the boat...most pleasure boats (as most things are)are limited by the owners...you got a lot of cool nice stuff in this boat!!!VERY COOL, i might ad....so that is going to play a huge part on hard you can drive this thing!! be safe a listen to pat!

Thanks Joe. I am pretty comfortable with my boat to take it out and get some seat time. I spent three hours with Pat on triming the boat, tabs, turns, etc. I feel pretty confident that even with all the nice stuff it will all stay in place. Well almost everything...I may have to pull off the tv and store in a safe place when I am running really hard. :p :D

you just let me know when you think you can't be busted up....i'll come out and show ya how it's done, if you'll have me:D ...pat would void your warranty if he knew i was running it!

I am sure you would, but remember I got a lifetime warentee on that hull. And Joe, no bleeding all over my boat.:p :p

YEAH...so do i! but..................i haven't bled on the boat this year!...o ****, yes i did at lake X...a few stiches here and there never hurt anyone!...we finished our test though!

Had too much to drink. Let buddy (Baja H2X driver) drive my boat and he had to see how fast he could get it to go. First turn at high 50's he did fine. Second turn went into it at WOT (about 64) and he trimmed down approaching turn. Didn't know a boat could do a 180 and go from 64 to zero in less than a half second. Still have a scar on my hand to remind me not to do this again.

After driving the 22ZX with 510hp I learned the dos and don'ts of a step. Never trim in on a turn if you keep your trim up slow down right before the turn and the throttle up as you are going through this lifts the nose up out of the water and lets you slid around the turn. DO not over throttle or you will spin out. if you feel the boat over sliding back off a little on the throtte and hit again, Never trim in . The nose will stuff and you know what happens after that! I spun my boat out 3 times with no one aboard on purpose, I ran that boat at 80 and took turns almost the same speed. The only thing is a step hull can't negotiate a turn like a deep V, Respect the turn and don't over steer.

Dan,

Good subject to bring up! I have only about 700 hours in twin engine performance boats and the last 150 in a twin step Cigarette. I don’t fill qualified to instruct others.

I would suggestion would be to try to get some seat time with some experienced individuals. When I first got my Cigarette I was lucky enough to spend a day on the water with Todd Klindworth of Team Virgin. I have also been out many times with Tres and Glen Martin. I have learned a lot watching and listening to more experienced boaters. Take your time learn your boat and don’t endanger others.

I had a scary experience this weekend when a boat that was following me did not turn after I stopped, The boat came very close to my transom before he finally turned. What made this worse was that my kids were in the boat with me. When you get older you worry alot more about these type fo things.

The manager at the marina I keep my boat at summed it up pretty well. “Too many people have the money to buy powerful boats but not the experience or knowledge of how to drive them”

One tip on handling a step that I can give you, never trim the drives all the way in during a turn. Doing so will cause the stern to lift and break lose turns.

Hey Brad who almost ran you down? Anybody I know? :confused:

Hey Curt!
Glad to see ya on the board again!;) And for the record...it wasn't us!:p

Cat

Hey Taco!! I cruise the board every once in a while when I have time. Unfortunately I just don't have much time. Seeya Friday night!!!!!

Hey how about this. Do not trim your drives out of the water :D:D

Don't trim the drives in before you turn. It's hard to break old habits. You tend to do it without thinking. Once you've spun out once or twice you won't forget anymore. Be sure and advise anyone who drives your boat.

ttt for the new season.......;)

good idea sharkey!


just to clarify.


drive trimmed in = drive down ?
drive trimmed out = drive up (for faster speed) ?

Good advice....... try not to do anything that makes you bleed.

T2x

no bleeding at X this year...well,, just a tad from the huge ass lump on my head...damn cranes! i never escape the X without injury for some reason...should have seen the look on don's face when i walked in with sandals.

there has been a lot of HEATED talk on bottom designs that i don't want to bring here...we have all put in out .02,,,for whatever it's worth??....

the bottom line (pun intended)...get to know your boat and yourself...don't go out there and learn with passengers. if ya want to know more???...i'm sure there are some racers in your area that always love seat time and are more than happy to pass along knowledge. i know some race teams sell seat time in a race boat, as we do...the information is out there...you just have to ask!

people seem to want a absolute answer...like for turning X boat where do i set tabs, drive and throttles in a turn...i think we create more problems trying to answer ...again, EVERY boat will have a different feel! so get to know your boat and set up...know WHAT and WHY it's doing things...this will allow you to change with it dynamically, as we know the environment it is in does!
BE SAFE

Drive to the lift, haul out
 

Drive to the lift (carefully) haul out, take can of bondo, well you know the rest.:D

Great thread...Pardon the pun but it looks like I am "stepping" up to a boat with a stepped hull (288 Sunsation). After water testing it yesterday, I have one hell of a lot to learn. Top speed of mid to high 60's. Right now, I can't imagine more power in it until I learn to drive it. Damn I can't wait to dig this thread up next year! :D

Reckless288

...chime in...You have about 400 hours now on your 288, right? Pretty much every condition you can imagine from flat lake water to offshore. I know you can impart some good knowledge for the family performance boater. After all, this is who this thread is geared towards.

This was posted by T2x on the cat thread and I thought it really belonged here......
====================
From: T2x

Ron P.--My thoughts on "spinning" in..... Simple physics.... Right hand rotation propellers,torque (lean) the boat to the left. Left hand rotation propellers torque the boat to the right. In a twin engine boat spinning outboard or , RH on right side, LH on left, the torque of the propellers tends to return the boat to level when one side or the other leans outward. When props are spun inboard RH on left, LH on right, or counter rotated the torque tends to make the lean worse. This occurs because as a boat(Cat or Vee) leans to one side, the prop on that side buries deeper and exerts more force, while the prop on the other side rises (in some cases out of the water) and exerts less force. So...... If a RH prop is spinning on the right side of a boat leaning to the right, the prop tends to push the hull back over to the left. (spinning Outboard). If, however, the left hand prop is on the right side in a right hand lean , the prop tends to continue to roll the boat over. I submit that this is why there has been such a dramatic increase in barrel rolls (even in straight-aways) in races in recent years. When I flew over races for 16 years, I could always spot the counter rotated boats, because they behaved very differently (and definitely not better)than their properly spun (outboard rotation) competitors.
The reason that many people spin them "backwards" is the fact that on some hulls the boat may gain a mile or two per hour at top speed....or..... the boat has a bottom tune that needs more bow lift. The speed can generally be achieved in other ways without using an unnatural rotation as a "bandaid" (This is particularly problematical on stepped bottom boats that skid first, then catch suddenly, then roll outward......get the picture?)
One can re-tune most bottoms to add rocker to provide bow lift without resorting to ill advised prop rotation changes.

Counter rotation is adviseable on SINGLE engine race boats when the courses change from counter-clockwise to clockwise. LH props like right turns and handle better, RH props like left turns. Since the Bravo drive allows for a simple flick of a lever to reverse rotation, one would expect that Factory 1 racers would have a supply of left and right props depending on the course ....... up until this year most F1 racers don't...... I guess nobody has "invented" this yet.

I posted this from the Great Moments in Cat History.

I have spoken to many people about this and it seems that V bottoms will become a handful to drive with the props spinning inward.

If your manufacturer stuck the drives on with an inward direction, you might want to swap them to spin out for safety reasons. And yes, you might give up 1 mph if you do so. You might also enjoy a better handling boat.

..Vin & I just mounted our drives last weekend..spinning out..per Velocity & all that I've heard from the "experts"....;)

my .02

mlitefan glad to hear you got to go out and run it a bit. Can't wait to hear impressions/thoughts on the possibilities...

As far as the step driving goes, the Sunsation is a tad unique in that it's step is only partial and runs inboard only to the first strake. Sort of gives the best of both. I believe the Sunsation step is more for planing a little quicker than for WOT advantages. If you've ever seen a picture of a 288/32 running trimmed up you'll notice the "semi-steps" are running out of the water...

But the Sunsations do have a little nuance and that's bow steer. Their noses are long and therefore requires a tad trim up to cut it hard otherwise the nose will dig in and cut hard.....I learned this within the first few days of operating it while dialing in the operating envelope. If you lift the bow a tad she'll turn as hard you want it to...:D

you may want to test for yourself...again...stop looking for absolutes.

if the manufacture set it that way...ask them why...they may have just done some testing??what center are the drives at??...what percentage of the blades are exposed on what stroke??...how was the propeller designed...a boat that bow steers is EVERY bit a handful as a boat thats ass is too light.

Joey.... I believe that both circumstances you described above are actually the same thing. A loose rear pivots on the nose in either case. That may make Peter's new Skater vee the best of a bad lot in that, with five steps, the whole bottom can slide (drift) a bit through a turn....but, I still wouldn't want to bet my life waiting for some errant surface to catch and trip.

T2x

Joey:....

I concur with all of the above except that there are a surprisingly large number of racers who don't have a clue.........and have a huge "show off" factor.

be selective of whom you trust in all things......and always Be Safe.

T2x

the end result maybe...but they are different...cg plays a part and the moment can work for or against you...also surface adhesion and laminar flow (in differnt areas of the hull) work themselves into he equation as well. the later is what we are working on now.

"suprisingly large number of racers who don't have a clue.........and have a huge "show off" factor. "

i agree...but if your savvy enough to seek out good information and repeatable data...you maybe keen enough to sift through the bull **** too.

Re: Tips for driving stepped bottom boats
 

Thank God for these boards! I have a new Eliminator with steps and never really thought about it. I never turn hard tho. When I turn, I ALWAYS settle the boat slowing down get into the turn then throttle out. Guess I was doing right all along. I will be a lot more careful now.

THANK YOU ALL!