It's also over a decade older. That's like comparing a 2001 Maserati to a brand new 2011 M3. Apples and oranges.

Honestly, IN todays economy, would any of the formula owners on this thread buy that 353 from the boat show for $260,000? There is no formula financing like there used to be either! Not saying your choice to buy your formula years ago was bad. But would you really buy this new one or shop for a better "bang for your buck"?

The price is already reduced more than fair. Comparing price to other new brands is hard but I am sure they will have great discounts also. Comparing new vs new can only be done fair using MSRP. We can however compare the boat show formula to a used boats price (even though the used boat has room to negotiate also).

Used wins everytime. There is nothing this formula offers that a used boat does not. Not even a wrnty. The parts can be bought with what you save, plus you have more boat for your money.

Please don't take it personal, but the facts are the facts. The Formula Fas Tech line is dieing FAST! They have not been changed in 14 years! I highly doubt a smart investment is to drop $260,000 on a 14 yr old design!


This one is my personal favorite, no one can argue that its not a lot of boat for the money!

http://www.boatcrazy.com/search/deta...t=&link=&text=

Not sure why people are still comparing used boat vs new boat prices. Its obvious that the consumer can get a lot more boat buying used rather than new. Do i think 260k is a little steep for the 353...Yes. But when you compare that price to other competitors (new vs new), I think you will find formulas come in well under competitor pricing...i.e. fastech 353 = 260k and donzi 35zr = 350k at a minimum. This of course is a comparison of what a consumer can expect to buy a boat for not msrp. No one pays msrp.

i dont think anyone is debating that point.

Hahaha the fastech line is not dieing fast. Dont be so naive. I would be willing to bet that Formula produces more Fast Techs in one year than many other performance companies do.

Fact is the majority of the boating world hasnt updated there design in 8-10 years. With the exception of OL and Cig, many companies opt for face lift changes...i.e. new cockpits, graphic updates, varied dash designs, etc.

Why? Because completely re-designing a boat is expensive. It doesnt make much financial sense in bad economy unless you can recoup investments. I am guessing ROI on a new hull is not there.

Hopefully this comparison works: Take the BMW 6 series. It wasnt re-designed for 8 years. Typical cars have a 4-5 year design cycle. Did 6 series sales fall near the end of the 8 years, i am sure they did. BMW just released a re-designed new 6 series this past year. Do you honestly think they are selling that much better with a new design? Doubtful. And do you think that when a consumer went in to BMW 2 years ago that they thought to themselves, "why am i buying a 8 yr old design?" my guess is no.

Pretty sure skater doesnt build the same boat every time. Nortech comes out with something new it seems every year. Sunsation just came out with a new 36. Cig and Ol are always stepping it up. These are the company's that are doing well in a crap economy. Formula has done nothing.

I agree Formula has done nothing over the years, however many others have followed suit. I think "one" has to define the term redesign. Everyone in the boating industry has done some form of a refresh i.e. cockpit changes, cabin design, graphic packages, features, etc.

I personally constitute a redesign as a new boat from the hull up. Meaning completly new plug, new materials, new schedules, new lay up, new post processing, new look, etc. Tons of R&D.

I dont think a redesign is a boat that has been retro fitted using the same plug with new materials or an old plug with a slight modification. To me thats just a refresh. Much like cars use the same chasis and merely add new headlights, new body kits, and tail lights. In many instances boat companies take an old plug cut a foot or two out of the cockpit and call it a new model. If thats a redesign and pushing the limit then tons of them do it. I like to call that the cookie cutter approach.

1. New vs. Used is valid when the product line is identical. What is the difference between a new Fastech and a 2004 model.......about 200K and rest of the boat comparison is identical!
2. The Fastech line is dying! Matt Truilio reports they are building their 3rd 382 this year and others have mentioned that Formula doesn't even bring the Fastech line to the local boat shows since there is no demand/no dealer is stocking them.
3. ALL OF THE BOAT BUILDERS HAVE UPDATED THEIR PRODUCT LINE IN THE LAST 5 YEARS! Cig/NT/OL/Sunsation have introduced brand new boats. NT/OL has also phased out their older line (probably 5-6 boats they used to make are out of the line up, replaced by new, better models). Even Fountain re-did their cabins in 2008!
4. Formula doesn't necessarily need to scrap the whole line up but rather tweak what they have (and this means more than a new steering wheel option).
5. BMW 650's had a 10K rebate at the end of their model run, to say that car wasn't selling is a huge understatement! Cars are different, they get used more, traded more frequently so to drive an old model is not a big deal since 3 years later you probably won't have it anymore! Cars are a necessity for 90% of Americans, boats are not a necessity for anyone and they cost more than some people's homes (another necessity).

Formula knows they need to do something, boats like the Ilmor 382/400 SS and the FX4/5 are definitely bright spots in their future but the Fastech line is at a fork in the road. Dump some money in it/revitalize or let it die is the decision they have to make. Another thing that is working against them is their boats have a classic look and they are well built. It is hard for even diehard boat guys to tell the difference between an older model and a new one so why buy new especially if the old one will perform just as good as a new one?

Hey a houseboat is a lot of boat for the money too! That BT is terrible............:eek:

A 2001 Maserati wasn't even good in 2001! :evilb:

jumping from a 21 Baja to a 353 Formula..Wow...

They need to get new buyers at the dealers ordering new boats so do whatever it takes! Not sure how big of a role that guy Vic had (he left and went to work at Cig) and if his departure hurt Formula's production.

The new models from OL/NT/Sunsation were completely new hulls. OL/NT create a new boat almost annually and if they can do it so can Formula especially since they have a volume that OL/NT don't.

I agree 100%.....but just to be fair the boats you found online advertised as 2012 models used old pictures (Ransom, the 45SS is like a 2004 model).

New Sonic 38/39 is a shot in the arm for sure, if that boat breaks 90 mph w/525's it will be a hit. Total new boat, new step bottom, new paint, new staggered engines.....this is what Formula needs to do.

Well PowerQuest is having an auction..maybe Formula could buy some of their molds and update their line...


Just a Joke...:lolhit:

PQ had the same issue 10 years ago as Formula does now (exception being Formula has a great cruiser line/dealer network). PQ hit a wall on new ideas/boats, their line was well liked/respected but their owners moved on to better products when PQ didn't offer them what they wanted. I have a friend that still talks about his 29 PQ and running it to the Bahamas on a bad day..........he has since moved on to NT, built several new ones including a 50.

I said it was just a joke and thats all it was a joke...

As far as PQ ..you are wrong..10 years ago PQ was doing great...PQ ran into problems around 2004-5 when the new owner took over and drove the company into the ground...

I also owed 3 PQ 290 and they are good/strong boats ..but are comparing at PQ290 to a 50NT???

I disagree especially when a 2004 model has logged 300+ hours of use and is in need of mechanical repair. Your argument can be had with every new vs old item. A used ferrari is a lot cheaper than a brand new one. Sooooo...

Didnt know. Thats unfortunate to hear.

Brand new boats or the same designs with a cookie cutter mentality?

I dont understand your argument. People on here go thru a boat a year in some instances. Who cares about it being a neccesity vs a need.

agreed sonic has definiatly stepped it up in the 38/39 but thats 1 model out of the bunch.

10 years ago they were "at the fork in the road" like Formula is now....they ended up heading down the wrong path (2004 was 8 years ago).

No, Mark still talks about his 29 PQ but has since moved on to bigger boats like his last one (50 NT). He did make the jump from a 34 PQ to a 43 NT back in 03. His 29 PQ was his first new powerboat I believe and ran the sh!t out of it.

The point is that 2004 Formula is identical to the 2012 model and the 2004 Ferrari looks/performs nothing like a 2012 model (new one being 10X better/faster).

On that 270K 353, you probably could find a mint one for 90K used and still have 180K to take care of the "mechanical repair" but both boats will perform identically and look identical at the dock.......Why would anyone spend the extra money on the same boat new?

Brand new boats......umm yeah. Sunsation used Tres Martin's bottom design for the 36, the OL's are all new and the NT's are new as well (unless they slapped two 39's together to make that 80 :eek:).

I like that Sonic but still would rather have the Ilmor 382 coming down the pipeline! :D

Wrong again!!!!!

10 years ago PQ was past that fork on the road....
they had just come out with the single step 280...the 280 sc (cruiser)the 320sc (cruise) and the new 300 Revenge twin step ..so not sure what wrong path you are talking about???

PQ did not fail because of the product it failed because of management..

All good points. As I understand it, Formula's lack of production of Fastech's over the last few years was due to both the downturn an excessive dealer stock that had to be bought back and eventually disposed of. The effect was to drive down the price of both new and used Formulas.
As has been pointed out, Formula's quality is a double-edged sword. The long life and lack of tooling changes does make used models more appealing. Nonetheless, I still think the discounts being offered are fair, and should be appealing to buyers who want a new boat.
I'm just glad that Formula's other lines have saved the company. They are really good people who take pride in their products and have treated me very well.

I will bow out to your PQ knowledge but I can't remember a single person in the FL powerboat club showing up with a new PQ of any size since I joined as a member in 2004. FPC has boats from all over North America do its poker runs so they tend to have just about every brand covered vs. a regional poker run that tends to have lots of local boats (PQ from Michigan would mean a Great Lakes run would have lots of MI made boats).

Despite anything being said about fastechs, whether they're dated or whether they aren't doing as good as other companies or whatever the case may be, I will say that formula is the ONLY company to bring any type of real speedboat to the new York show in the past couple years and for that, I applaud them.

there are those who apparently have a persistent bug up the azz about the 353/Formula FasTechs...

I ask have you spent any time in one?
A whole day?
An entire weekend?

Does the 353 in particular...

Ride well?
Forgiving and stable?
Overall very seaworthy?
Does the 353 make excellent use of space?
Have the near perfect allotment of individual spaces and dimensions for a 34' performance boat?
Use high quality material and vendors throughout?
Have excellent fit and finish?
Rigged at the very top end for a production boat?
Pack a TON of well thought-out, well placed ammenities?
Is the boat easy to use in terms of egress/layout for sunning, beach-time, cruising, running hard, and staying aboard?
Have excellent support from the manufacturer?
Does the product get respect consistantly dockside or at the ramp? Does it make a statement?

If you say NO to any of these points I say you've never been near one for more than 5 minutes!

So what do you do with a boat like this? Change it up and risk loosing any individual goodness noted above just for the sake of change ?

believe it or not, some things are done so right, accomplish the manufacturer's mission to the intended audience so well to begin with, they are a hard act to follow.

So now you can only piss about the speed/bottom.
No, not the fastest
but frankly only one bottom is any given day and the rest as you would say...
"are outdated and need a redesign" :rolleyes:

I dont agree......Obviously you very much like your 29 footer and Formula. Formula does make a very nice boat, but you can pick one out from a mile away with the same ole 4-5 paint schemes. The carpet in the salon of the one pictured in this thread looks like Chit. Looks like some old house carpeting. And having to step up and over to enter the head..... ?

I like my 45 footer and the ammenties along with the head room. The deck on the Sonic allows for the head room. With Sonic you can and could of had pretty much any paint you wanted from the factory from 2000 and up..... thats hardly dated, and the new 39 is over the top in fit/finish, quality and updates. The interior is set up nice too....I would bet the room & seating below in a 35 Sonic surpasses the room in a 35 Fastech.

Irregrdless, both are nice brands. Its good that everyone has the freedom to choose what they like.

In this economy many cant afford to totally change everything up. When you start your own boat company, you can do just that as ofter as you wish. Besidies when something isnt broken, no need to fix it. Sonic held a pretty good pace with getting new boats out and sold and seems to have a good pace going right now. The Formula cruiser line is moving, the Fastech line isnt unfortunately.

I've never thought of my boat as "dated" looking at all. I actually think the fancy OL type paint jobs look "dated" one or two years later while mine is rather timeless.

Oh well.....my boat is basically going to be all new shortly and better than "factory". :D :D

Your paint is timeless and looks great. I agree the over the top paint jobs do date the boat, as do certain colors.

Saying Formula has done nothing is only correct if you look at the 3 boats in the Fastech line. However, as I am sure you know, they have a huge line of other boats, that they HAVE been putting money into, because those are the boats that keep them going.

You can hardly compare what a one off custom builder like Skater, OL, and Nortech do compared to Formula. They build a super high quality production boat. They aren't and never were trying to be one of the companies you listed.

sorry for being so harsh on the sonics. glad you are enjoying yours!!!!

I'm just curious... How many new 35 - 45 ft. Sonics were built last year???

Jupiter I think.its time to come out from behind the keyboard (and the closet) and realize what you're talking about. You bash Formula for going through hard times BUT forgot to mention Sunsation had to have people working for FREE for a while to keep their doors open! And if it were all about what someone could get for 200k everyone would own older OL, NT and Cig... No one would buy a new Sunsation bc honestly they dont compare. Personal preferences are everything, people don't want to buy the boat YOU want, they want what they want.
Before you go talking about new boats, high dollar used boats, BMW's and all that I would go take a look at your credit and payment history to realize you're not going to be included in any of those groups.... Haha

Why would you be a part of any boat club? The bank has your boat! Lol
Maybe I'll go join a cigar club, I don't smoke but makes about as much sense as a boatless powerboat club member

The basic design and styling remains the same as when it was introduced in '98 or '99. Might just put it a tad behind the curve in the minds of some, you think?

What he said. :drink:

I have had many people ask me if my 10 year old Formula is brand new. Just sayin!

OR...

you could be changing the model ad-nauseum sucking in those who gotta have the latest/greatest and the seeming prosperity for the builder that accompanies this...

end up flooding the used market while finish work slides and somehow also end up out of the boat building business...

just sayin'....

what's the new '12 35 Lightning sporting for improvements?

2 places Sonic does not win out in is build quality and cust service. I am not talking out of my ass I currently own a 03 Prowler and a 2001 382 F2. The gel coat just falls off the Sonic while it is sitting in the drive way. The Formula is a tank. I called Sonic when the boat was just 2 years old with my concerns about the gel coat I was told tuff **** we did not build the boat the old owner did get stuffed. If I call Formula on the other hand they act as if I bought the boat new and bend over backwards to take care of me. Hands down Formula wins in build quality and cust sevice.

:drink::drink::drink::drink:

The gelcoat issue is inherent to that vintage Sonic. They botched a few in their early stages of "Infusion" or as we know it, vacuum bagging.

We know those R.H. ownership years as the corner-cutting era.

Sonics were rock solid before that. Not talking out of my ass either, as I owned one.

If you build a **** boat stand behind it. Dont botch it and say FU. I am happy with the Formula runs high 80's with 500hp power I would buy another no matter how out dated they look. To me how good a company takes care of there cust goes a long way with me.