Diesel-Powered 52-foot Outerlimits Hits 94 mph
05-06-2012, 06:30 PM
#41
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"design and build boats" is not a mechanical engineering degree, and not a career in designing engines.
So you think that the flat crank Ferrari engine is "balanced", while the 90* Chevy engine is not based on the firing order? Ugh. WHAT THE HELL??
"V8 Two stroke diesel" Already been done. Detroit Diesel 8V71.HOLY CHIT Wake up !!!
Michael
So you think that the flat crank Ferrari engine is "balanced", while the 90* Chevy engine is not based on the firing order? Ugh. WHAT THE HELL??
"V8 Two stroke diesel" Already been done. Detroit Diesel 8V71.HOLY CHIT Wake up !!!
Michael
05-06-2012, 08:39 PM
#42
Registered
I'll weigh-in on this with my 2 cents.
It's not a V vs in-line for which is better. The V engine if built from the ground up to be a performance diesel would be better. The reason the I-6 does so well and takes the Hp increases better are because any of the smaller V's that are out there are not designed as sereve duty engines. A Duramax no matter how you want to look at it is not designed to be a 1,000,000 mile truck engine or a 15,000 hr genset. The little I-6's were designed for sereve duty hence bigger stronger parts, they take the extra Hp easier.
When you look at the V's people tried to hot rod over the years they failed, because they were all light duty engines the 3208 Cat, 504, 555 & 903 Cummins, GM Toroflow, 8.3L Detroit, Navistar 6.9 & 7.3. It was not balance or firing order but taking a light duty engine and trying to make it perform outside of it's design.
Personally, a clean slate V8 diesel would have many advantages over an I-6 the most important in boating is length to go into existing engine rooms without modifing the boat. The shorter stroke bigger bore could turn more RPM's making it more "gas" engine like and it goes on.
When people start with their 600hp Duramax and driven everyday - I roll my eyes, because the Duramax at 600 hp only sees it on a dyno pull or for a couple seconds while accelerating otherwise you're 200hp or less 90% of the time. In a boat you're making 500 of those 600hp 80% of the time the engine would fail in short order. If it could take it than Banks, Raylar or Merc would have it running, doing it, selling lots of them and they don't - what does tell you, they are all blind, missing the big picture or the $ vs TBO just doesn't work out?
Someone will have a true hot rod V8 diesel or I-6 that will last if the industry could build (sell) more than few boats a year that want them, Oh wait they have Seatek and how did that workout? I'll tell you 110% one reason why Seatek has never caught on, it's too damn long from drive flange to front of engine, you have to build the boat around the engines, doesn't make good $ and sense.
Look at the Skater for sale with diesels, how long for sale, how much of a price slashing and it's still not sold? When an engine builder sees that or the Eliminator the diesels came out of why would they put $2 into building a higher Hp diesel for this market?
Anyway again OL - great job would have expected nothing less from Mike and crew!
It's not a V vs in-line for which is better. The V engine if built from the ground up to be a performance diesel would be better. The reason the I-6 does so well and takes the Hp increases better are because any of the smaller V's that are out there are not designed as sereve duty engines. A Duramax no matter how you want to look at it is not designed to be a 1,000,000 mile truck engine or a 15,000 hr genset. The little I-6's were designed for sereve duty hence bigger stronger parts, they take the extra Hp easier.
When you look at the V's people tried to hot rod over the years they failed, because they were all light duty engines the 3208 Cat, 504, 555 & 903 Cummins, GM Toroflow, 8.3L Detroit, Navistar 6.9 & 7.3. It was not balance or firing order but taking a light duty engine and trying to make it perform outside of it's design.
Personally, a clean slate V8 diesel would have many advantages over an I-6 the most important in boating is length to go into existing engine rooms without modifing the boat. The shorter stroke bigger bore could turn more RPM's making it more "gas" engine like and it goes on.
When people start with their 600hp Duramax and driven everyday - I roll my eyes, because the Duramax at 600 hp only sees it on a dyno pull or for a couple seconds while accelerating otherwise you're 200hp or less 90% of the time. In a boat you're making 500 of those 600hp 80% of the time the engine would fail in short order. If it could take it than Banks, Raylar or Merc would have it running, doing it, selling lots of them and they don't - what does tell you, they are all blind, missing the big picture or the $ vs TBO just doesn't work out?
Someone will have a true hot rod V8 diesel or I-6 that will last if the industry could build (sell) more than few boats a year that want them, Oh wait they have Seatek and how did that workout? I'll tell you 110% one reason why Seatek has never caught on, it's too damn long from drive flange to front of engine, you have to build the boat around the engines, doesn't make good $ and sense.
Look at the Skater for sale with diesels, how long for sale, how much of a price slashing and it's still not sold? When an engine builder sees that or the Eliminator the diesels came out of why would they put $2 into building a higher Hp diesel for this market?
Anyway again OL - great job would have expected nothing less from Mike and crew!
Last edited by HabanaJoe; 05-06-2012 at 09:01 PM.
VIP Member
05-09-2012, 02:45 PM
#45
Banned
Joe have you had a chance to look at the new 6.7 Ford diesel? What would it take to marinize it? With that compressed graphite iron block is it very light compared to the Dmax?
05-09-2012, 03:52 PM
#47
Registered
Cat - I don't look at any of this stuff anymore as I used to. I've seen the engine out of a truck on a stand and I think like anything else with enough dollars it could be done. BUT, until there is a market to support that it will never be.
Yanmar or Cummins marinize on a global scale so it's not a cost problem, same water cooled manifold is on genset, lobster boat or an Outlimits - scale of economy that's all it is.
There is no room in today's world for one off's. Not to rant or take away but the gas engines Outerlimits or Young or whoever build are off the shelf parts (yes modified) but none the less they are not making connecting rods, rocker arms, pistons, flywheels, manifold, helix grinding, etc, etc in a machine shop from a block of aluminum like we did. The market can't support what we did, it never could, hence we're broke!
Back to this OL, I love these guys, and proudly have their sticker on the back window of my truck! Mike can make a dent into the diesel performance boat market, he's smart enough to stay with over the counter globally warrantied engines and drives - he'll build my boat in the next life when I have that kind of money - LOL!
Yanmar or Cummins marinize on a global scale so it's not a cost problem, same water cooled manifold is on genset, lobster boat or an Outlimits - scale of economy that's all it is.
There is no room in today's world for one off's. Not to rant or take away but the gas engines Outerlimits or Young or whoever build are off the shelf parts (yes modified) but none the less they are not making connecting rods, rocker arms, pistons, flywheels, manifold, helix grinding, etc, etc in a machine shop from a block of aluminum like we did. The market can't support what we did, it never could, hence we're broke!
Back to this OL, I love these guys, and proudly have their sticker on the back window of my truck! Mike can make a dent into the diesel performance boat market, he's smart enough to stay with over the counter globally warrantied engines and drives - he'll build my boat in the next life when I have that kind of money - LOL!
05-09-2012, 07:04 PM
#50
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