Robby Woods 32 Skater....
 

Hey guys I'm new to the offshore powerboat world and I've got some questions that I'd be very grateful for answers. I've been all over the map from a DCB to a vintage Cigarette and after talking to everyone in the business and how I'd like to build a boat I've decided there is no option for me other than a Skater. Peter has been extremely helpful and eager to work with me. I race off road trucks for a living and also engineer and build them at our shop almost all in house. We have a CNC mill, lathe, and waterjet so I'm going to do most of it myself. Peter has been the only builder seriously interested in reasonably facilitating my project.
So I'll be buying a 32 flatdeck widened 12 inches, full wrap windshield and extended bussell, to accommodate the Arneson #7 drives. We'll be building a pair of injected 700 inch donovan big blocks in house. Rick has also been extremely helpful. So here it goes, please reference the question with your answers I'm super eager to hear your thoughts. Cheers Robby Woods

Engine: I hear that tolerances are much more loose in marine engines do to constant load. What tolerances do people speak of and any examples. How loose?

Closed Loop: Heat exchangers, Who makes them, what do you think of them?

Water Pump: Who makes a solid pump and what are your thoughts on stages?

Cam Shafts: Are there go to manufactures that will sell a proven cam package for the marine industry?

Power Steering: What kind of pump and who makes the best? Or do you prefer helm steering? Why?

Alternators: What are marine specific alternators? How many amps are sufficient?

Exhaust: Cooling before the heat exchangers or after?

Over View: We're going to build the engines as I mentioned before something like a 700 inch injected aluminum big blocks. I am at a loss where to start from a marinizing process from pumps, accessories etc...A loose outline of this would be awesome. Also would you like to see them mounted further forward with trans inboard or rearwards with trans in drives? Weight distribution

Drives: Peter likes the arneson and that was my first choice when I looked into this project. I like the simplicity and lack of drag. Any pros and cons other than the safety of them hanging out the back?

Thanks again I'm sure I'll have more questions as It progresses Please be as detailed as possible and any thoughts outside of what I asked would be awesome!

This is your first offshore boat, a 3212 Skater with 2000+ hp??? This is a Big step up from a 1986 top gun you wanted in earlier posts. You should just buy the 2012 388SLW, its in the Skater classifieds , it is for sale Cheap :)

It will be a huge step, and the top gun seemed like a cool nostalgic boat to own on impulse if speed wasn't important. I still think the old cigarettes carry a cool history that would be enjoyable. But for the amount of work it makes no sense. I had initially wanted an F32....But it isn't a true off shore boat. And the engines will be severely detuned. I think a true 850 a side would be perfect and reliable. I know there will be a steep learning curve ahead and I have no plans to get in it and run it recklessly, but I do race cars for a living and I'm confident I have more common sense than most people purchasing these boats. The build is what I most look forward to so any advice on the engine would be awesome!

If you do a search on the topics you have mentioned, there will be a ton of information found.
Big cubes are very unusual in our boats because there are cheaper ways of getting the same horsepower. There are a number of them out there but rare.
I'm not trying to be negative, but there are multiple ways you can make mistakes that will cause a meltdown or more seriously a crash due to mechanical rigging issues.
I'm sure your shop is top notch, but if you actually want to enjoy the boat seriously consider getting some reputable experienced help with it. There are so many little rigging things that can shut you down or be dangerous.
You can do the project, but it may be more heartache than pleasure in the end.

well definitely need closed cooling with aluminum block's .

do a search here there are a lot of great builder's on this site that mite throw you a bone . the other idea it mite make sense to pay one of these builder to spec, your motor out so you have all the parts and clearance's for a marine application that is very important other wise you will get a boom after spending a lot of money .
just a idea
mike

I will take a stab at this:
I have a 32 B I bought from Pete. He was easy to deal with and is still very responsive a year after the sale. The boat is better than I expected. I race V hulls I have run cats and owned a few raceboat's but this is my first pure pleasure catamaran.

On the engine side there is plenty on spec's if you look on here or you can buy Dennis Moore's big block book. I would talk with Sterling, Eddie Young etc to make sure you get the shortblock optimized.
The go to guy on marine camshafts is Bob Maderia RMBUILDER on here his reputation speaks for itself.

For heat exchangers I would not have a Marine engine without one. I have used Monitor marine in Brooksville Fl they have a great engineering dept and they make parts for many OEM's. Mr Cool on here seems very competent and helpful I have not used him before.

For power steering pumps KRC are fine you want to be sure to have a large gravity fed collection system to prevent pump starvation and air in the system. You will want to cool the fluid on the return side.

For Alternators with fuel Injection you will want over 100 amps of output if you use an all electric fuel delivery system. If you deliver the low pressure fuel supply with a mechanical pump you could go smaller.


I have not had an Arneson boat. It is my belief that the guys at Wilson Custom Marine are the best at implementing Arnesons in the States if not the World. They are third generation racers with a pedigree and reputation that is respected worldwide.
Hope this helps!
Steve

I have a Skater 32B with Arneson 7 drives.

I can tell you if you want a fun project and great guys to work with, you got it. You are proposing a serious boat that will run extremely fast.

The boat is Carbon Fibre and epoxy, so you are already light. The power to weight ratio is extremely good. The arneson is very easy to repair and work on. You can disassemble the drive yourself in a half hour. The prop shafts are stainless steel.

That boat should run 160 without superchargers.

At the risk of not contributung anything to the thread, has anyone seen PR388 or CigaretteSam around lately?:party-smiley-004:

But seriously, that is a huge leap, and there is a lot to running a 160mph boat and keeping it running. Ever consider a starter boat? Single BB cat? Twin OB cat? Just a thought.

Ok, so you're Robby Woods, the Lucas oil offroad truck team driver?

Sorry if I'm sceptical, but the amount of posing that goes on around here is incredible.

Come on it is the INTERNET it must be true!

Most insurance Co. require Cat experience .

That was my first though,insurance may be impossible on a cat with no hours.My daughters boyfriend builds and races trucks locally and went out with us and he was amazed at how different the marine world is from the truck world.If the project works out take it slow,there are no seatbelts or roll cages.I have been ejected from an 18 footer at about 45mph with no vest and am lucky to be typing this 25 years later,you don't want that under your belt.Good luck with it.

That's me:) as you may know although it's growing and we can do ok financially through Racing and the TV package... Off road racing Ist going to put me on Forbes list anytime soon. I really look forward to building a boat with our flare, I think it will be rad. If you have any advice beyond the forum email me [email protected]

Would you build a 32 with big inch small blocks, or something supercharged? And why I know what's common I just like the simplicity of all engine and EFE. Could you go into details of what the advantages and disadvantages are of several routes. I was under the impression that displacement and torque would be your friend in a cat?

Thats awesome what's his name I might know him? I do have an element of fear that comes with owning a boat of this caliber. And it won't be my first boat. It will be my first real boat but I spend almost every weekend at the lake. I've drove some DCBs and an elimator at 120. The difference between 120 and 165 is substantial so I'll take my time getting there. I guess what I'm getting at is Peter told me 40% of his clients fly there on private jets, Forbes list kind of men. I'm skeptical that they've been powerboat enthusiast there whole life or owned several. I think Ive got a head start on the learning curve.

Thank you! What power plant does your boat have and what would you do different next time around? This is all extremely helpful. From the rigging and drive side, Peter will mount the drives before I pick up the boat. Would you say that having them do it would be comparable to the company you mentioned? Peter says that you want them as low and far inboard to the center of the boat as possible.

What engine package do you have and what would you do different next time? And how fast is your boat? What feels safe or stable I know there's always variables rough water, wind, a drive breaking at speed. Lots of stuff can happen but what speeds are you comfortable at? Also how do the arneson drives maneuvera at low speed? Is your boat drive able and enjoyable in the docks?

this should be a good thread. When you get into this Robby we all want pix. Best of luck

Given your background, don't let anyone discourage you. Sounds like you have the tools and the skills. Have skater nail down the motor and drive placement and work from there. If I had a facility to do a project like this I wouldn't hesitate.

Good luck with the build, keep us posted with pictures. You must already know about http://www.tresmartinperformance.com/about.php

Robby
His name is Travis Davis and right now he is working with Flippin Racing on their car,I believe he is going to codrive the next race with them.Where are you out of and what lake are you boating on.

I have 525's on Bravo's and the boat runs 116 on the rev limiters almost regardless of load.
On the engines for your boat. Catamarans like RPM's I have seen cases of guys running them 1000 RPM past the the HP peak and the GPS is still climbing. The 700" engines will be huge torque but you will need prop speed either with gearing and or big pitch wheels with out rpm. Idle speed, dock manners etc can get a little brutal with these setups. You may want to think about a shorter stroke so you can rpm the engines for long periods of time. I have a 5450 Max RPM and 5550 rev limiter and it is frustrating. If I were building this boat I would keep it very light (spartan rigging etc) have power steering pumps on both engines with a priority valve and engines that were durable at 6200 RPM or more. You will not need much horsepower to push that boat with light rigging and aluminum engines but you will still want rpm's for sure.
Pete will absolutely know where to put the drives but I would still talk with Wilson they have a vast knowledge and talent base.
Steve

I'm sure with all that you know, who you know, and your driving skills your boat will be bad a s s when its done. Good luck!

Hey I will email you, so you have my contact info.

We can talk, but I would not do too much different for this size boat. Jeff Muchin another customer of Riks did a very similar 32B project as well. His boat ran 165 mph with the 950 blower motors. Dale is on here as Skater 30 another customer of Riks with a cut down deck. That boat is extremely fast as well. You can watch his contour video at 140, I think.

I built my own motors. The cranks, Oliver Rods and JE pistons all came from Callies crank shop who built cranks for Dart tall deck 10.2 block 4.6 bore by 4.5 stroke 580 CI. One dominator 1050 carb, 5 inch exhaust. Motors make about 690hp at 6000RPM. I turn 18x33 pitch 5 blades throuh 1.32 gear ratio Arneson ASD 7M. I use my boat to go swimming, the restaurants and run all over.

Skaters, feel like they want to keep going faster and faster. They feel the same at 100 as they do at 120 up.

The boat planes at 12 mph which you can go through no wake zones if you wanted to. It planes in about 2.5 seconds. At slow speed the boat maneuvers very good, it is very enjoyable.

I'd really appreciate that if you could email me your contact info! I'm glad to see that there are other gear heads out there building boats. Don't get me wrong I'd love to call Teague and have him send me a pair of 1500's to Skater and pick up a new 46 finished ready for the water but It's not within my means and building it is. Where is the gear reduction done with the arneson in the trans? Again thanks for all your valuable info. How loose are the tolerances that the boat guys speak of?

Hey Rob no problem. Gear reduction is done in the Arneson gear box. 1.32

Tolerances vary for ring end gap and the cam bearings need to be pinned for an aluminum block which expands during operation.

Building 598 to 700 cu inch aluminum motors with your own customer made thin wall stainless steel freshwater heat exchangers would be the cats meow.

This is the part I can not figure out with the new merc 1350 and 1100. That is a raw water cooled aluminum block aluminum head motor. That motor used would be worth nothing. salt water is very hard on aluminum.

The new Merc 1100 and 1350 are closed cooled.

I have 2 sets of 1500 Sterlings for sale. Quad whipple EFI and PSI with carbs. Selling cheaper than the parts cost to build your own

Robbie,
Cubes are your friend, but when you get that many you have to get into big chief style heads which are not nearly as durable as the conventional BBC heads. Intakes probably need to be fabricated. You Will have different rigging concerns with clearance on the sides. Price of short block components will be extremely high. A Nice supercharged 540-598 would be cheaper unless you have All the parts lying around.
Maintainence and longevity are going to revolve around your valvetrain. How long dó you want to go between rebuilds?

That is very cool did not know that!

Hey jack a$$! Put a little effort into making your spam make sense. This has to be the worst advertising I have ever seen!

I'm not good with all the technical crap, but I don't feel that this is the right boat and power to START out with. She's a great boat, but show her the respect she deserves. We don't need another RIP thread. Be safe, do the right thing, and Godspeed

Hey Robby, take my advice and listen to Rik and Pete. They've already built what you are building right now. My old '05 30' has naturally aspirated Sterling 588s and ASD7s. Why don't you get ahold of me and come up (I'm only an hour from Rik's shop) and we'll go out in my boat and see what you think. I can show you everything we did, why we did it, and you can see firsthand for yourself the results. I do agree with a lot of earlier posts that you are biting off a lot for your first high performance cat. I came from a professional motocross background when I got into high performance boating/racing, but I'm certainly glad I graduated from a 22' to a 28' to my 30' cat. I'm certain you are very talented, but as a pro, you know that what got you there was a LOT of practice! I honestly feel you'd be a lot safer starting off in a 368 with the same power - they are a lot more docile and forgiving boat than the 30s and 32s with that kind of power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4AcTX6PbEQ&sns=em

Here's a video of my 30 with 588 ci naturally aspirated pump gas motors running against my friend's 36 with 730 ci naturally aspirated pump gas motors. Do notice how smooth the water was. Had we been out in the SF Bay or past the Golden Gate, he would've left me with no problem.

I suggested he would be better off with a pair of n/a 600EFIs and 7s. Then he could put Whipples on them when he's ready for more speed.

these??????????? Oh yea!

jealous!! i miss my cat!

For Robby's questions wouldn't LS motors be a nice fit for a 32 skater?

I was there for that, I shot a similar video of that from the deck.

Can you email me what youre asking for each set? How cheap is cheap? Sterling makes a great product from what I hear?

yep. thats one set, the other is listed in the classifieds