prostock85

Just my opinion

LapseofReason

Wow you are so wrong on all 6 points you made, you need to go do some homework.

TexasVines

1. nobody is getting half the mileage with ethanol gas that is just a silly answer by someone that wants to keep holding on to falsehoods

2. it does burn cleaner that is a fact

3. the "foreigners" comment is that of a child that has no real response.....if you prefer that the USA exports raw goods for cheap and or less than the actual cost of production at least say that don't make ignorant comments trying to brand someone with the same small mindedness that you display with your answers

again if you have a problem with Americans being employed in value added jobs just say so don't try and make others appear to be small minded like you

4. it is true because of the price of corn was below the cost of production as it has been many years in the past then farmers will either not produce, they will produce at a loss and go under, or they will rely on farm program payments to break even

5. it has been proven that ethanol can get the same or better mileage than gas in a properly configured engine.....Indy cars burn ethanol and they have not made their fuel tanks twice as large nor do they make twice the fuel stops that they did prior to going to ethanol and they actually get more horsepower


6. ethanol is at record export levels and growing as are DDGs so again it is not a case of "if" it is a case of reality

anyone can express any opinion they wish even if uneducated and lacking in any substance

Raylar

TexasVines:

Please tell us about your boat and engines.
Also could you please inform us boaters here on OSO about the negative effects of ethanol on marine fuel systems and engines in boats?
You always post on OSO as though you have an oil and fuels industry inside knowledge and we would all like to know how you are so knowledgable when it comes to oil, fuels, refining, exploration, export,import of same?

Thank You,
Ray @ Raylar

Sydwayz

iTrader: (1)

Darr we go again?

TexasVines

wow please prove that I am wrong

here I will do my "homework"

http://www.gptc.com/gptc/charts-quot...ction=Energies

the above is a commodities page for "energies".....please show me the delivery month that Ethanol cost more than gas

it has been this way for a long time....PS there is no more ethanol subsidy that was ended at the end of 2011...PSS even if there was still an ethanol subsidy the commodities trading pages show ethanol as sold without a blenders credit.....and there is no longer blenders credit so that is a moot point

so on point 1 I have done my homework and proven myself to be correct

2. ethanol is used as an oxygenate in the place of MTBE for gas to burn cleaner....just a simple fact

3. are you trying to say that people that are employed in the production and transport of ethanol are not in fact employed...not sure how one could argue this, but I will be interested to hear you defend that point

4. if corn was below the cost of production then American farmers would either not be in business or they would be on crop supports and producing for below the cost of production and breaking even at best

5. here is a link with a study that shows ethanol can get the same or better mileage on a per gallon basis

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Cd4ojJKEvVo4qA

the university of North Dakota and Iowa also have similar studies.....I am not saying this is for every car or boat on the road I am saying it is possible though.....so again I have done my homework and proven my point

6. google "US ethanol exports" and "US DDG exports" and you can read to your hearts content from any source you wish

again I have done my homework on point 6

so again can you please support where I did not do my homework or where I was wrong?

I will tell you this information as soon as you release all your tax return information to me.....what you say that is a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what is being discussed....exactly turn about is fair play

we are not discussing "my boat" nor are we discussing my knowledge or engine building experience.....we are discussing ethanol and I have supported my opinions on that and my boat or my engine building experience is not pertinent to that unless you believe that it will somehow diminish the facts I have presented and supported

I never said that ethanol was good for all engines or even that it was not bad for some engines

but my boat and my knowledge of engine building is meaningless to what the price of ethanol trades for on the commodities market relative to gas

it is not relevant to the fact that ethanol production employes thousands of Americans

it has been proven by people that have never built an engine at the EPA that ethanol burns cleaner as a stand alone product or when blended in gas.....so again my boat and my engine building experience are not relevant to proving this point

my boat and my engine building experience are not relevant to the export numbers for ethanol or DDGs

my boat would not be relevant to the debate about fuel economy.....engine building experience might be, but I did not conduct the studies people that have PhDs dealing with engines and fuel economy did......so again if you wish to question their knowledge contact them or contact Indy car engine builders because they are the ones doing the studies and reporting them and getting the mileage and performance

again I did not claim there are not issues with ethanol, but "an issue" or even "issues" does not mean there are not benefits......It was ask if there are any benefits and I presented those benefits.....the first response was from someone that did not wish to actually hear an answer.....the second response was from someone that was even less interested in having an actual discussion and then your response was a strawman

pretty much 100% of the reason the internet has made the USA a dumber nation because people wish to debate complex topics in the form of tweets, strawman arguments, and little "gotcha" type comments even when presented with facts from reliable and proven sources

unless you are saying that commodities markets are not a factual source for the price of a commodity.....or you are saying that export numbers are a lie, or you are saying that you can PROVE the EPA is wrong on ethanol and ethanol gas burning cleaner than regular gas or if you are saying that ethanol industry jobs actually do not exist or that cars properly configured to run on ethanol cannot get the same or better mileage.....again not ALL cars, but there are cars out there including non-flex fuel cars that can get the same or better mileage with ethanol

I look forward to you supporting your position with more strawmen and tweet type comments

Michael1

The reason the use of Ethanol has not resultied in doubling of fuel tank size is, prior to 2005, Indy cars burned METHANOL not GASOLINE.

Ironically, now they actually burn about 2% gasoline, and the remaining ethanol.

Michael

TexasVines

and ethanol gets better fuel mileage than methanol and Indy has actually made their tanks smaller because of this and the gas is added to make the ethanol not fit for human consumption (required by law) and so that the flames have visible color

so I was incorrect on what Indy cars burned prior to moving to ethanol, but that does not change the fact that some regular street cars can get as good or better mileage using ethanol

it also does not change the fact that ethanol is very competitive in price with toluene, xylene and other things used to boost the octane of gas and this allows refineries to produce lesser octane gas for a lower overall price and then blend ethanol into it to boost the overall octane rating for a lesser cost than many other still legal and available octane boosters like those mentioned above

Payton

Also the 2% gasoline in the Indy ethanol is added to all ethanol at the plant. The government mandates that so you can't drink it.
TexasVines, thank you for all your facts.

Quinlan

iTrader: (1)

And now with the drought the price of Corn has gone way up, So that means what little there is this yr causes All food prices to rise. Just wait till next yr when most of the farmers have sold off the beef
because of corn prices and see what a slab of steak cost us.
END the gov't subsudies of E atleast.