My buddy has a Z06 capable of 200mph that he has owned for 4 years now. I can't wait to tell him that he should feel "obligated" to spend thousands on a performance driving school because disaster is inevitable without it, haha.

You my friend are a class act. This is the point I was trying to get to in earlier posts. It's not about bashing. It's about teaching, learning, and growing.

I love my cars. I love to sit and tinker. Hell, while my Cobra was under a complete rebuild (i paid to have the work done because it was beyond my skill set), I bought a riding mower just to wrench on while I looked for my boat.

I will take the class. It is a matter of money. Comments that people don't have their priorities straight are freaking off their rocker. You're making hasty generalizations just as "The Man" makes about our sport as a whole. Comments like that make people look like complete momos. Period.

I wanted to run in the LC poker run this year but you know what... I wasn't ready. I'll stash $400 a month till this time next year to pay for Tres' class, pay for my PR entry and the fuel I'll burn along with the accommodations. Until then, I'll read and learn what I can via my own means. I saved for my boat for 5 years. I saved for my Cobra for 3 years. Moderation and planning isn't a bad thing.

Just because I don't have a bottomless piggy bank doesn't mean I shouldn't enjoy the fruits of my labor. At the same time, by all means, it does mean I should NOT be out on the water rocking the throttles trying to run like the big boys. I'm not in the big leagues. I'm not going to try and run like I am but I will enjoy my boat and execute due diligence in staying in my comfort zone.



Diverkr - if you see "Mask" around, tell him his brother from another mother said to give him a call.

Well said. Your a smart Man. A year behind the sticks an then school sound like a great idea. You will know more about your boat an I think the class will help more when You have some time on it. You will have more questions an understand the answers . Artie

Thank you, aka!

Here's another idea. A smart man will turn the tables on those that are trying to run the show and give the power to them and become an enabler to allow teachable moments to happen that will benefit all those involved.

Here's my proposition:
- Let me be the test dummy
- Identify an individual(s) who would be willing to sponsor the fee(s) associated for the course / travel and I'll tow my rig to wherever the next class is
- Let's get Speedonthewater.com in on the fun
- Document a relatively novice "performance" boater who takes Tres' course from start to finish

This seemingly would provide a documentary on the benefits of the course and how learning's of the course can be applied in a hobbyists daily outings on the water.

This would provide real life feedback from someone who is cautious but would be able to share and document with ALL of the boating community MY individual experience and benefits of taking the course.

There is my proposition. Do we have anyone who would like to take me up on the offer? I'll pony up my rig, PTO, and time if someone would be willing to sponsor the expenses associated with everything else. Seems like a nice proposition to be able to document the entire experience...

Any takers?

Well said Crown LPX!

I have been in this sport for 18 going on 19 years. I have hundreds of hours and have run in waters from 6-8' to glassy smooth. I would like to take a class because I know there is more to learn and hopefully make me a better captain. The price is what gets most folks. To me $1500 is a big chunk of $$$, a house payment or my child support or insurance and storage for my boat for the year. At that price I want a one on one class. Not spend hours in a class with others and go out in a boat for an hour or so. Ok so the savings on insurance is 10% +/- big effin deal! It will take me personally over 20 years to pay for itself with my current boat. $500-700 is do able for most people. Sorry for my rant but if any of the guys here want to sponsor me and pay my ride I will glady take it! I will gladly be the claen up crew after class and send them the savings on my premium...

You would never make that statement if you have ever been to a dragstrip or road course when a guy shows up with a new "weapon" and proceeds to try and duplicate performance he has read about in a car magazine! I have seen brand new 911 Turbos go a$$ backwards into the tire wall with less than 200 miles on the clock...... Too much car, not enough talent! Ever seen a kid in a 400 HP Mustang get sideways on the dragstrip and go 45 degrees into the wall after a hard 2nd gear slap?

Great post from someone who actually took the class!

Also keep in mind pleasure boats today are surpassing race boat speeds of yesteryear making them inherently more dangerous. Even the Fountain guy at LOTO was experienced, former racer and he still had much to learn......unfortunately his passengers paid a heavy price for his lack of knowledge.

No but did see a friend grab second hard and put his 69 Camaro SS through a block wall .

The insurance companies have already decided this for us. The more crashes/events/claims the more they will require training.

I am required to take Tres Martin before I can serve as captain of my boat. They have also made my insurance premium almost $12,000 with a $31,000 deductable.

If I would have bought a V-bottom or something with 700s or smaller, I would not have had to take a course or have this massive premium.

They have determined through statistics that big power and cats = claims. I suspect that although this fountain incident has gotten a bunch of press, the actual number of claims/losses is relatively small for that category of boat and they will not raise everyones premium with a 38' Fountain.

To the F18 pilot - very cool. But, you have been trained to the max in your machine to make you a safe pilot and to protect our (the taxpayers) investment.

I don't think everyone needs a performance boating course. I do. 150mph cat with no experience. I am taking the course and using some local guys with knowledge and experience in the boat until I feel comfortable.

By the way, I am a pilot as well (but gave it up). It took me almost 25 hours before my solo because I wanted it to be a non-event....and it was. My pulse never even went up because I was ready. That is the way I'm approaching my new boat.

Really? Has it been determined who the dude with the Fountain is? And how much so called experience he had racing? Just curious cause I haven't seen it anywhere else.

I don't believe we want to define classes of boating in regards to the course but if I compare what you spend on your insurance premium alone, it is more than I pay a year for my boat, insurance, storage, fuel, and maintenance combined. again, this is where disposable incomes create a huge variance in the type of boat in addition to obtainable speeds.

please note, I am not knocking your success but reading your original search threads and your original budget, it is likely more than what many boaters make in three years.

Damn right! If I didn't have my father or a few other old school gear head guys to show me things over the last 15 years or so I would not know my head from my azz.

You know what man I think most of us have been there. Seen it many times on the road corse and even autoX. But there is NO and I mean NO way to help those kind of guys.

THEY ARE NOT GEARHEADS! PERIOD! They are guys with money. Money buys stuff.

Post #99 in the Loto Fountain crash thread by DrReedJ:


Hey guys, I was a passenger in this boat during the accident. Yes, there are many cardinal rules broken. The most important one I feel is no life jackets worn. As crazy as it seems, we had jackets for each person but as the poker run began we realized no one else was wearing them..... How foolish we were. I have read so many nasty comments on YouTube and other sites I am in shock. My wife suffered 4 broken ribs, punctured lung and a broken foot. She has not left the house since getting home. She is in severe pain. The driver crushed his eye orbital and broke hus back at T8 ( he is a former F-2 racer with APBA). Another passenger who raced professionally for many years broke his pelvis in several places and is in a wheelchair. One of the other girls crushed her eye orbital also. The guy from lake tv fractured his hip and broke his wrist. My injuries were minor compared, busted my head open and damaged a rib or two. Everyone is black and blue. This was a very upsetting event for everyone involved. I have been around powerboats for many years and it only takes on unguarded minute to loose a life or permanently hurt people you love. I am very thankful this did not end up worse. I hope everyone learns from this. I know I will boat differently. All of the guys in the boat are members of OSO. I think it is necessary to break down the accident and discuss this, just remember these are real people who like you who love power boating and do it every weekend.

Thanks. Read that post. Seems that noone could verify the info though. I for one am skeptical. Back to the thread at hand...

I would love to take the class and I would gladly shell out the $1500 for it if I could get it to workout with my schedule. I would simply consider that part of the cost of my little mini vacation.

I am far from made of money. I have a small(er), slow(er) boat, but I think the $1500 would be money well spent when you look at the potential increase in the ability to safely handle my boat, especially when my friends and family are on my boat on a regular basis.

Jay

I would have been suspicious too but the guy that posted it was aboard during the crash....giving him more credibility than anyone else on that whole thread.

I'm not saying this applies to previous posts in this thread but I'm sure there are owners that will spend $1500-$2000 on new sun pad upholstery or stereo amps or some blingy anodized gauges and also say they cannot afford the course. Then there's also the ego factor, who wants to be told how to do it correctly or how they've been doing it wrong especially if the wife is around. Just remember water always wins once you screw up.
ed

How much time is spent with this class? I looked at the site and did not see the amount of time. My road racing classes ran about 300 over two days. Is there a by the hour option?

Trained and worth every cent!

+ 1 !!!!

Guys - sorry if I pulled this thread off track. I fully support good training in any form from anyone and this training in particular and have been seeking it out since buying my OL.

I don't support characterizing persons who have not obtained a type or specific brand of training as Dbags that don't value their family or have their priorities out of whack. If someone holds such beliefs or does support such characterizations, I suggest you start an intervention thread and see how many show up to receive your pearls of wisdom...

R/S,

db

Winning! As I stated before, it's nice to see someone with big power being humble. Maybe it's me but lawdy does it seem like this site is plagued with people who feel they need to prove a point. Luckily, those individuals are overshadowed by the majority who are here to do something good with their time and experience.

Hey, it's nice to see those individuals skipped over my proposition too. It's easy to judge another but not so easy to step up to the plate to make a point valid through actions.

Maybe you should vote for Obama, he will take care of you!


Why not call Tres, ask to take the course with a money back guarantee? Pay for it, take the course and if you don't feel like you learned anything then you get a full refund? Seems everyone who has taken it, even with years of performance boating and many different boats felt like it was money well spent! Why not take the initiative yourself, invest in yourself and not propose for others to take care of you?

Obviously if the course was a rip off, people would be lightning fast to report back!

Thanks for taking the bait, Jupiter. Please, feel free to take the time to read back over my previous posts. I was making a point and you proved my point. For that, I thank you. Comments such as yours pigeon hole others. I never stated it wasn't worth the investment. In reality, it is just that, an investment.

I wont hash up the past and where the government has been there to assist others in times of need. For some, I believe it serves a genuine purpose and while for others they take advantage of what's available to them. Similar to the sport, the unfortunate outcomes of the actions of a few do not define the sentiments and actions of the entire population.

By the way, I did vote for Obama and I will again. I'll save that conversation for a non-boating related thread.

Jup, who said it was not worth the money? I know I didn't.

It's always the same thing. Be safe, do it for our sport, etc.....

Like I said if this was real gearheads that cared about the sport they would try their best to educate. @ $2500 a pop you pretty much know what boating niche they are after. The BALLERS.

Example: I ran from Kehma to Galveston a few weekends ago with two sunsations running in the group. One was the susation dealer in Houston (he said). That boat was broke down on the way back and everyone was trying to help him. I gave him my $40.00 fuse kit to get the boat going again. Maybe I should send him a bill???? I see this as almost the same thing.

Just to put it in perspective:

$1500 cost would probably be less than the deductible in any insurance claim! The LOTO guy in the Fountain crash lost $300 in sunglasses alone in that video ($100 a pair guesstimate)! What do you think the lawyers fees will add up to, he paid for a poker run he didn't participate in (no event dinner, prizes etc) so what was the "opportunity cost" of that ($200-500 including extra crew). Boat towing costs, you know TowBoat/SeaTow love to circle events like these! How about lost wages? How many weeks of work are the injured people missing? Forget damage to the boat and the medical costs, look at all the ancillary damages that insurance certainly will not cover......

I would bet the next Powerball jackpot that if you interviewed the driver today and asked if $1500 is too much for a powerboat driving class he would easily agree that it would have been money well spent! I would bet he has spent $1500 on prescription pills to ease his recovery!


That being said, Tres did mention that the accident was totally avoidable (to rule out wake, cruisers and any other acts of God excuses) and even offered an explanation on one specific thing that set the boat on the path of trouble.....aggressive throttling pushed the weight (momentum) of the boat forward unloading the stern so when the waves knocked it side to side the stern was simply spun from being "unloaded"

I just don't agree. The guy in the fountain was and is an IDIOT. No amount of training would help that guy. He made so many bad decisions it's pretty easy to see that he is NOT motorsport cordinated.

Your post #21:
for now, it's more important for me to pay my bills, add to savings and pay my $1500 a month child support than squander my savings and step out from my responsibilities as a father and business professional to run off to take this course. in the interim, I will continue to boat safely within my abilities


Squander defintion: to spend extravagantly or foolishly : dissipate, waste


You either don't know the definition of squander or you simply forgot what you said.....:poopoo:

CLA

I was quoting Crown, so he was who I was responding to/referencing. BTW $1500 or 2500 isn't the kings ransom, ever priced a big poker run like KW? $800 to get you in the run, $750 hotel, $600 fuel, $300 dockage and you still have booze, meals etc on top of that and of course your travel expense to get you and your boat to the run! KW PR is a $3,000 event all day long IF nothing breaks and you live in Florida!

Yea man, I just got back from 7 days down there with the boat. I do a lot of big trips. Also just got back from LOTO, won my class.

What I'm saying and you are missing the point......is gearheads used to help each other. I've seen guys stop on the power tour and help strangers for 8 hours! Just to get everyone rolling again. That's the true passion for hotrod shiznit!

If these guys really cared they would have a lot of info out there for us to read and watch. Don't you agree?

Boating season is over for me. Two weeks ago when I would have taken the class my season was over the next day. Would it be foolish to take a class and sit on the teachings when I can't use them or when I'm still learning my boat and wouldn't be able to adequately relate the class to actionable use of the boat? For me, that would be spending foolishly.

Savings are reserved for times of need. Should I lose my job, I will be able to provide for my family and pay my bills and not have to release my responsibilities. From your perspective I'm making a really bad decision. However, I stand behind my position and I'll reiterate I believe in the class and I will be taking it this time next fall. I'm sure you'll find fault in that statement as I compared this year taking the class to taking it next year at the same time and I'm ok with that.

You also overlooked that post where I stated:

"I wanted to run in the LC poker run this year but you know what... I wasn't ready. I'll stash $400 a month till this time next year to pay for Tres' class, pay for my PR entry and the fuel I'll burn along with the accommodations. Until then, I'll read and learn what I can via my own means."

and

"Just because I don't have a bottomless piggy bank doesn't mean I shouldn't enjoy the fruits of my labor. At the same time, by all means, it does mean I should NOT be out on the water rocking the throttles trying to run like the big boys. I'm not in the big leagues. I'm not going to try and run like I am but I will enjoy my boat and execute due diligence in staying in my comfort zone."

You're earmarking a point that if you own a powerboat you have to take the class or you're an idiot. That's where I wholly disagree with your position.

Another poster stated something along the lines that it's not a bad idea to have some seat time behind the new sticks and get a feel for the boat. Wow, what a great concept to know the boat a bit to be able to apply the class through it's course.

Carry on.:angry-smiley-038:

Crown, just pointing out your non sequitur posts. I don't believe everyone must take the course but do take issue with anyone that feels it is overpriced (everything in the boating world is overpriced! :D) especially those that haven't even taken the course!

So in one post you want someone to pay for you to take the course so you can offer your opinion yet now you feel that the course would be a waste of time since your season is over? Kind of a flip flop position there no?

Why would you want to "Squander" your money on the course?

Nope. No flip flop. I'm not going to squander my savings to race to take the course as soon as possible. I've set a goal and will take the class as I set money aside to save for one awesome weekend. Class, learning, and poker run.

Not sure where there is fault in that logic.

Yes I agree but not sure "Tres" considers himself a hobbyist that is out to help folks on the power tour. I can't remember ever seeing Tres at a poker run, Brad certainly yes. Tres is playing the role of educator and his resume of Multiple World Champion Powerboat racer, rigger etc. is what you are paying for. Would Chip Foose work on your hot rod for 8 hours out of the goodness of his heart?

He structures the course over a couple days, not a couple pointers given at the bar after a run. It is part science, part engineering and part throttling/driving. I don't think we will see Tres on "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" anytime soon. Keep in mind the course has a set cost and gives insurance discounts that will far exceed the original cost if you have a big dollar machine. Tres has behind the scene costs that factor in what the course charges. Airline/Hotel/Car Rental/Boat Transport all can get pricey. So 4 guys attend at $2500 (10K) but he could spend 3K getting the deal done. So 7K net but the next class isn't until next month so 7K divided by 2 months is $3500 a month in net income before taxes, $875 a week minus fixed overhead (phone, website, advertising etc). Not exactly ordering a 44 MTI w/1350's kind of money! :D

No but you do realize the definition of squander right? You have an awesome plan, sounds like it will be a great weekend!

"I am saving to do everything at once" would had covered all of your bases instead of "I'm not going to "waste" my savings to race to take the course"

Please report back after class, I suspect you will become Tres's biggest cheerleader!

You said it!

I have happily taken guys out in their light civil aircraft and taught them how to do aerobatics and fly their ride for no cost! Stuff like that comes up often when us military guys are hanging around civilian airports. I would never consider charging another person a dime for my wealth of knowledge and experience.

So you can and should be able to find good help without whipping out the checkbook!

There are many ways to become "trained."

You must be one of those low level HOBBYIST! How dare you enjoy helping people with your passion! LMAO

No more race cars for me. If John Force can't teach me to work the trans brake or get a good 60ft then I don't need to be racing!