Boat Purchase and the future?
 

So I'm getting my ducks in a row for my next boat purchase. I sold my last boat to move up to a Top Gun or similar and have been looking at a lot of different boats.

I've also looked at a few 30 to 35 footers for less money but would ultimately be a compromise.

So here's my dilemma:

Step up to $50K to $65K for a Gun or similar 38 footer.

Be conservative and spend $25K to $45K on a smaller yet still very capable boat.

Don't buy anything and just bum rides off friends.

A little financial background:

I have a great job that keeps getting better every day. Business has been really good and we are booked up for months in advance (Commercial roofing company).

My wife has a decent job with good benefits and she's been there for 20 years (waste disposal company serving San Diego +)

My house is paid for as are my cars.

I can pay cash for the smaller boat (after a couple more months of savings) but would have to borrow for the larger boat and I don't like doing that.

I am worried about the future of our country regardless of who gets elected next. With our national debt and out of control spending both federal and state (CA) and our GNP declining with jobs going overseas and our trade deficit, I'm reluctant to spend money on a toy that will depreciate. I am also worried about gas prices and massive inflation.

Without getting too political, it seems this country will continually elect officials who will promise free stuff forsaking the future.

The bottom line is that I can afford another boat but not sure if I should or if I should just stay conservative. Am I being a worry wart? What would be the worst case scenario, I have a boat that would sit in the back yard because gas was too expensive? Or the economy really goes to hell (worse than now) and I have no income, sell the house and live in the boat?

I'm leaning towards the middle ground, $25K to $30K boat (there is a certain ex-race boat I have my eye on). It would be paid for and still capable of running big water and going a decent speed. Even if it lost all its value it would still be less than a fraction of my annual income and a loss I could deal with.

I know you can never really financially justify a boat purchase and in the past I have never wanted to calculate my costs. I always tell my wife that it would be cheaper to rent a helicopter and fly to Catalina than to take the boat. The boat is just a hell of a lot more fun and that's why we spend the money.

I know there are a bunch of OSOers that are blue collar guys like me and not high rollers. Do any of you worry about the future? Or like someone in a movie once said, sometimes you just have to say fock it!

Definetly worried about the future but life only happens once.

Very worried... my whole neighborhood is forclosures. Sickening.

I have lost too many friends before their time should have been up and they all said the same thing-- If you wanna do something go do it cause you never know---------:evilb:

have fun while you can .you never know what can happen , he who dies with the most toys wins

He who dies with the most toys is DEAD..:party-smiley-004:

i say buy the gun if that is what u want,if gas goes to high,raft up with the rest of us,u only live once!

+1

GNP is not declining. Along with Europe and South America, it declined briefly during the financial crisis but has bounced back. We have been much worse off on our trade deficit as well in the past and it recovered.

Manufacturing in the US is experiencing a resurgence and now our biggest limiting factor is finding enough qualified and willing people to feed the industry. I've heard it from all manner of business owner that demand is not their issue now. Sad. Labor costs in Asia are rising quickly. China's growth depends on the growth of a middle class. When that middle class emerges, they won't be payed pennies/hr anymore. If they want growth, wages will rise. When wages rise and their environmental abuses catches up to them, it will once again become more cost effective to manufacture as close as possible to the point of consumption.

Summary? Yes, we have have experienced a seriously humbling decade. But the data is not all gloomy. Buy the TG.

"I'm reluctant to spend money on a toy that will depreciate."

Get this thought out of your head when talking about a boat! It is an inevitable fact of life that will not change no matter brand of boat you end up in.

If you can go middle of the road and sleep better at night, do that.
You own the boat. Don't let it be the other way around (financially or psychologically) or it won't be fun.
Boating is supposed to be fun.

Get the TG it's not that much more and you are going to be way happier with it!

You already know what you want. Go for it. Don't wait on affirmation one way or another from the outside. When ya know, ya know.

I've been debt free over a decade. If I can't pay cash I don't buy it. That's just me and a philosophy that's not for everyone. A boat , in my opinion, will be a loosing proposition. I didn't buy mine thinking to make money. I will be happy to get close to breaking even when I want to sell it. Definately buy what you want. Save a little more money so in a pinch your boat doesn't become a financial burden. Good luck!

If you buy the right used Top Gun that is old enough that it has already depreciated a good amount, chances are you won't lose much over three years, a 90K boat that is in great shape won't drop to 50K in three years unless you trash it. Being that your house and cars are paid for I would say go for it, you can write off the interest on the loan, (boat as a second home), and there is nothing that says you can't pay the loan early. Both you and your wife have good incomes and you have no debt so figure out what you need to set aside for savings etc, and see what is left for a boat payment, maintenance, insurance, dockage, etc, etc, etc....for me it seems to be around $2000/mo for everything, but I am always buying things and making improvements that I "need" for the boat.

The boat I have now is the first one I was able to buy outright, but the first two that I financed I had many many many good times on and I would do it again without question.

You can hedge your bet, round up your buddies and others within your sphere of influence, join the present campaign, contact the campaign manager and motivate CONSERVATIVE VOTERS. Economic insight should come from those efforts. Then with the $100-200 K boat, your company sponsors your new boat. The company name (s) is somehow included in your strategy, your accountant can help with that and depreciation. Subject to California tax laws and your goals, between company sponsorship, advertising that may include others, personal tax depreciation benefits and increased company sales, the net cost of ownership may be close to or below "0"

I had a 2000 TG/TS that I sold about 4 years ago. To me it was a big investment & expense. Maintenance & insurance was a killer on it. While I owned it I bought what I called a back up boat 35k.

My Cig spent more time At TnT, leaky CMI headers & reversion took out 4 engines. Not to mention Bravo XR drives that blew constantly 4 to be exact. I did run the boat hard all the time. Probably dropped 40K plus on it.

When I sold it I got back what I initially paid for it.
If I kept it and tried to sell it now it's worth probably 50k plus less in this market.

Bottom line is how much $ are you willing to loose. If fuel goes thru the roof & I have to park my boat for a while it's 35k sitting not 150k. Plus insurance here in FL is a killer.

You cant loose 50k on a 35k boat like I would have if I kept my Cigarette & tryed to sell it today.

I can still go out in big water & have the same amount of fun in my back up boat, plus it just keeps on ticking.

My point is, the boat can be a tool or a hobby, prudently both. Lucky Strike had a bad experience with his Cig, but learned about components and specs. The market has changed, but not totally collapsed. Subject to using the boat as a tool, the canoe version won't offer the same business potential as the Queen Mary. Granted, there are more budget buyers than higher end buyers. However, perception often creates more competitive high end purchases and other opportunities. Budget shoppers mostly go only to the bargain counter.

Steve, your boat is still on my short list. Got the okay from the wife on it but she would still prefer a Gun or Cafe Racer (size does matter to chicks!). She also would like a cabin. We don't really stay on the boat but it is nice to have a place to duck into once in a while.

If i go the conservative spending route yours is my first choice.

AL. All it will take is one ride !

If you work hard, you should be able to enjoy yourself. Does any boat make sense?Of course not. You can't keep every dollar you make and you can't take it with you. You should follow your heart and buy what makes you happy. You can always make more money and you only have one life, so enjoy it!

[QUOTE=lucky strike;3787140
You cant loose 50k on a 35k boat like I would have if I kept my Cigarette & tryed to sell it today.
[/QUOTE]

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner! You might not be the cool kid on the block, but there is something to be said for not stretching for any purchase, especially a boat. Out 3 boats are paid for, are old, and not so cool, but they do not kill us on depreciation or expenses either.

That said, if you have the cash flow and you want a bass ass boat, go for it!

+1, in the last 8 months I got rid of two boats and a motorhome. Cost me 72k because of the negative equity. Taught me a huge lesson on buying with cash, or financing and signing to 10% down loans. I'm all for financing boats, but just make sure your in the right loan. Nothing like watching your boat off to the next buyer and writing a check out for 20k to do it. Sucked but my credit score is to important to me. If your business-job is tight, family is taken care of, long term finances are looking good, and the roof you live under is in good shape financially and structurally, get the boat you want you deserve it.

I don't think your going to find a very nice top gun for 50-60k. You need to figure out how much you want to spend first, then go and find the nicest turn key boat in that range. still some deals out there but it looks like prices are starting to go up. not sure why.

Yes, that is the down side of wanting a Gun, have to spend more $. I'm looking at Cafe Racers too.

Not a Gun but a really nice 38 flat deck:

http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o47650-en.html

Jeez, you guys got me more confused now than before! I do like the idea of staying a bit conservative and having extra play money for gas, food and lodging when boating.

But on the other hand, I don't want to get what I call a "but boat". A but boat is one that you buy and like but you keep saying, "I like my boat BUT I wish I got a Cigarette" or "BUT I wish I got a 38 footer" or "BUT I wish I got an 80 MPH boat".

I posted this a few weeks ago in the bilge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5IdwltaAc
US Debt Dilemna explained........good 5 minute video outlining big trouble for the US in the next 10 years or less!

I would look at the big picture, look at how many boat companies are gone or hanging by a thread. How many long term owners have stopped buying?

I heard a recent story from a client regarding a failed sale on a 3.5mm Viking. Guy had the cash to buy the boat, wanted to put 1mm down and finance the rest. No bank in the US would take the deal. The broker was just trying to convince the guy to buy it outright for cash (to get the deal closed). Buyer had a one liner that was memorable: Why would I buy something for new 3.5mm with over 25% down if the banks won't finance it now? What will happen when I want to sell, the banks will not finance it as a new boat then who will finance it as a used boat for the guy that wants to buy it from me?

Broker was stumped........didn't have an answer/ no sale. :eekdrop:

Yup

You can't take it with you either.

Me and my GF (wife to be) ARE 30, no kids, no family left either. So we are savings a bit for the boat we want (could buy smaller or not what we want now with cash). However we dont want to compromise and dont want regrets...you only live once and you need too enjoy it!

Buy the boat and make it what YOU want. Run it for a season and rebuild the power and drives, while it is apart repaint the bildge. Run it again for a season or two and do the interior. The next year do the panels, guages, and paint if you have to. Then you have it exactly the way YOU want and with a good maintenence schedule and detailing will last for many years to come. If you find a good deal and you play your cards right there should be minimal loss when you decide to sell.

Go for it - youve been responsible enough to pay off EVERYTHING else, so reward yourself with the boat you want, not a comproimise boat.

http://www.pier57.com/web/used/Cigar...inois/2708831/


Here ya go, cash out refinance your paid off house buy boat cash then tell the government its not your fault the bank should not have loaned you the money and the cut your morgage 50%.

Before anyone freaks out I am being sarcastic, really you are in a much better position than 97% of the country. I say go buy what you want.

Weren't you the one that said to "stay away from blower motors"? Nah, I must be thinking of somebody else. :evilb: :D Whoever it was, saved me a bundle of money. Thank you. :p

I would build a spreadsheet, with one column for the lower priced, smaller boat, and the other column the Top Gun. Put in the purchase price, taxes, registration, gasoline, maintenance, engine rebuild $/hr, drive rebuild $/hr, etc. Add it all up, and see how it fits in your budget. You may get your answer right away.

I use $5/gallon for gas in my projections, although I may change that to $6/gallon if the oppressive political climate doesn't improve. Based on boattest.com data, I use some round numbers of 2.5 mpg for a 25 ft single, 1.5 mpg for a 30 ft twin, and 1 mpg for a 38 ft twin.

So at 50 mph, your fuel costs are:

$100/hr for the 25 ft. single
$167/hr for the 30 ft. twin
$250/hr for the 38 ft. twin

You could also look at what you can cut back on to pay for a larger boat. Perhaps there are some hobbies that are costing more than you are getting out of them now. Perhaps you have lost interest in some things. I would even go through all your expenses, and see where you can save (cable TV that's not being watched, phone plans, water, etc.). It's always good to clean house.

My new philosophy is "If I can't pay cash for it, then I can't afford it." That has stopped me from buying a lot of things I shouldn't. You also look a lot harder at the overall condition, and future costs. If the economy drops, I don't have a payment hanging over my head to add to the stress. A boat should be a stress reliever in my book.

There is no doubt a Gun is of good value here on the Pacific. My ride in Kevin's boat convinced me of that. We can have big water here, and the Gun handles it well. You just have to be sure you can afford to run it, because it doesn't do any good sitting on the trailer all the time. As far as rafting, that bores me to death. I'd rather be on a sailboat. At least you are moving, even if it is slowly. :D

Good luck, Al.

Michael

I think that you should decide what you want and then go do it. If you want to spend 60k on a boat, go ahead. Just be sure that you have enough free cash to cover all your ownership costs (taxes, insurance, storage), operating and maintenance costs, and a OH S..T fund, so when something breaks, it doesn't end the fun. There is nothing worse than an expensive, broken down toy that you can't comfortably get fixed. Buy a boat and have fun.

Someone needs to take You out in there Gun. Let You drive. Then You will save Your money an get the Gun an be happy.:party-smiley-020: My .02 Artie

Oh, and you have no kids boats are way cheaper than kids. So if you plan on not reproducing then I would not worry about it.

Well sorry. I didn't think about that. Mines grown. Artie

See Michael, this is why you don't own a boat, they really don't make financial sense! :lolhit:

I have my monthly expenses pretty trimmed. I'm old so don't have fancy phone apps or other electronic habits. With just two of us in a smaller house (1650 sf) our utilities are pretty low. It is a one acre lot but other than having a tractor and spending money on trees and such, it doesn't cost that much.

Kevin now has a 42X with staggered 700/NXT's. Nice setup and I got to drive it a bit. On the way to Catalina in 3 - 4's I looked at my wife and said, "Now you know why I want a Cigarette!". That thing just eats big water and has amazing power. So I know I want a Gun or CR but there is always the trade offs. Older straight bottom Cigs require big power to go my goal of 75 to 80. With big power in heavy boats comes with drive problems. The reason I want those speed goals is so I can cruise at 65 - 70 and not be at full throttle.

There is always the Bullet option too which would require a little less power. There is an older but super clean 38 Fever in Camarillo with brand new 600HP Teague motors, 85 MPH boat.

And Steve's (Lucky Strike) boat, a 31 Sutphen with a very cool racing pedigree. Short money for a cool boat and fairly inexpensive to operate. 70MPH and upgradable. I have never ridden in a Sutphen but do know they have a good reputation. I'm not sure how it would compare to a CR or Gun or the 38 Fountain.

I have quite a few hours riding in Guns and some behind the wheel all in the Pacific. I drove my buddy's TS/TG with 750 ZUL motors and XR's. He now has a 42X with staggered 700/NXT which I got to drive the other day.

I used to have a classic 1973 Cig 28 OS and for a smaller boat it crushed waves like it was made of concrete!

The only smaller boat I'm really looking at now is a 31 Sutphen ex race boat, 3 pack with no cabin or frills.

I may have to fly out to Fla and take a ride to see how it compares to the bigger Cigs.

Great to hear. We left cig an went back. Dont have one now but maybe again. I'm getting old enough for a 400ss but still trying to hang on LOL. Artie

My car habit doesn't make financial sense either. I'm just a bit slow at expanding the madness with boats.:lolhit:

The Camarillo 38 Fever looks pretty clean, especially if it has been stored indoors all its life as they said it has. I'd be concerned about how long those engines and drives are going to last though. You can eat up a lot of money on rebuilds, that could have been used for gas to get out on the water. Don't forget you would best add fresh water engine cooling before hitting the salt, since the engines have aluminum heads.

The Cigarette flat deck looks nice also, assuming they did a good job on the restoration. The #4 should last better than Bravos, but don't hit anything with those expensive 5 blade props. :eek: They should chop up the seaweed pretty well. :D

A blower motor in a boat running 70 is probably close to 0 manifold vacuum, which is the same as a naturally aspirated engine at full throttle. In fact, it's a bit worse, because you have additional load from the blower. It might make you feel better because the sticks aren't pushed all the way forward, but It will put the same wear and tear on the engine (if not more) and drives, as a naturally aspirated engine at full throttle.

BTW, I can't see you getting a boat without a cabin. You're one of the few people who used theirs.

Michael

It's not the boat that is the expensive part. It's everything else that goes along with it. Unless you already have room to store it and a truck to pull it those are additional expenses. Nevermind the 250 gallons of fuel to fill the thing.

Not to mention, if you pop a motor in a 50K boat, it's still going to cost you 5-10-15K for a rebuild or a new one, depending on power. Just a few other things to keep in mind....

Al you got to pay if you want to play :)
Hell i sold all of my other toys so i could get that gun last year and no regrets.
Was it the smartest purchase i have ever made? probably not but it has been a lot of fun and having it is a lot better than waiting for the day i can go get another Cig.