Toluene
 

I having been doing some research on Toluene as a method to raise octaine a few points as an allternative for over priced bottles of bossters which claim they raise octaine by four points. with 16 oz alone.:whistle:
Are any of you guys using Tolune alone as a boost or have a chart to measure octaine rating when mixed with pump gas? I would like run 96 octain while using 91 pump gas on X amount of Toluene. Any info would be appreciated

from what i have read its about a 10 to 20% mixture, in my jeep i ran 2 gallons in the tank and 15 gallons of gas. I have a 9.5-1 stroker engine and it loved it.

Yes i have heard of many people mixing there fuel with with it. However with the prices i have been getting at $14 a gallon am i just better off buying cam2 c-12? Between the two your not really saving any money buying the toluene.

mine wasnt that expensive and it was just a test for me, I guess the question is are you trying to save money or save your motors? yes there will be a point where the costs equal out, but i guess it would be a little easier to put more in than lose time because of a blown engine.

I read somewhere that the octane booster raised octane 4pts to go from 92 to 92.4. Is this true?
Toulene is heavier than fuel. Would you have to mix and go before it separates?

I used to use toluene in all my circuit cars, i used super unleaded as a base fuel with 12% toluene added then ran the engines on the dyno and mapped to suit the fuel. The GT2RS really liked the toluene and every gear shift up or down was accompanied by a massive flame out which used to light up the inside of the cockpit, it also seems to be very kind to the engines. We can buy it in the uk quite cheaply as parts wash, but be careful how you handle it as it evaporates very quickly & if you splash any on paint or laqueur it takes the shine of almost instantly.

Peter

VERY INTERESTING AND INFORMATIVE POST:party-smiley-004:

Order it in drums from a direct supplier, much cheaper that way & it can be delivered to your door. Just make sure to filter it first! I work for a chemical distributor & handle it nearly everyday. Like said, make sure not to get it on any painted surfaces & have good ventilation & no sparks, flames around. Had a plant go up in flame 2 weeks ago from the stuff.

Go ahead and drop one off at my door.

Does it have any adverse effects like ethanol? gaskets,seals,diaphrams,etc? Thanks, Randy

I'll have Blake personally deliver it....

It doesn't seem to dry out our gaskets as much as the ethanols, isopropanols or acetones we run. FWI

Unles you can buy it for less than the cost of race fuel there is absolutley no reason to buy it, around here we can buy 110/112 octane at the pump for 6.50 a gallon or so (and tolulene is the main ingredient), tolulene is 114 R+M/2 and the best price I can find is over 500$ for 55 gallons, now if you could find it bulk for 1/2 that it would be a different story.
As far as octane boosters go, I have always believd that 16 0z of any petroleum distillate even if it was 120 octane would be like feeding a tick tac to a whale, NOW after seeing some actual research on the stuff I am convinced that I was WRONG and stand corrected. There are actually some moden octane boosters out there that work, not by adding a few ounces of 120 octane to a given amount of gas but by adding a dose of MMT or actual lead. The turbo snow mobile guys have found they can run 2-3 psi more boost than they could on pump 93 mixed with good octane booster like Lucas. A 15 oz bottle of Lucas wil turn 10 gallons of 93 into 10 gallons of 96.6 octane at 6.50 a bottle, comes out to only 65cents per gallon, Smitty
http://volvospeed.com/Review/misc_pe...e_booster.html

Yes there is a difference between octane points and octane numbers. Misleading isnt it.

10 points to one number

Believe NOS brand has a racing octane booster increases 60 points or 6 numbers

Not exactly comment for toluene..

What about e85, octane rating goes over 100.
Also it cools down engine many other good points.
Its not so bad for fuel lines etc. like methanol and
like many think.

Succesfull use in dragrace raceone85.com

Also, keep in mind that having Tolulene or even race gas stored inside a building or handled wrong is very dangerous. I was trying to find a source for 55 gallon drun=ms of it and stumbled acrossed a couple osha reports, one the worker un-corked a 55 gallon drum, had a grounding strap to drum (which most of would never bother to do) and got ready to start transferring it and static electrcity set it off and burned him to death, one of many reports I found, gave me a new respect for handling this kind of stuff, Smitty
http://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/acciden...l?id=201112042

Has to be mixed 60-1 to raise octane 4 true points, at 15$ a 12 oz bottle that comes out to 2.50 a gallon to treat gas/(1.25 a oz) enough to get 4 octane points, most expensive octane booster out there and not any better than the lucas that is only 43 cents a oz, at 50-1 the llucas wiill boost octane 5 points for 1.10 per gallon, Smitty
http://volvospeed.com/Review/misc_pe...e_booster.html

i HAVE USED LUCAS OCTAINE BOOST THIS PAST SEASON AND STOPPED USING IT BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN I THOUGHT IT WAS POINTLESS(LIKE FEEDING A TIC TAC TO A WHALE):lolhit:
SO YOU ARE SAYING LUCAS WILL INFACT BOOST OCTAINE ENOUGH TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?(SAY A COUPLE NUMBERS) I USE 91 OCTAINE (NON ETHONAL) AND EITHER USE C-12 OR LUCAS TO INCREASE MY OCTANE RATING TO 96 IN A 100 GALLON TANK. DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE INFORMATION REGARDING THE LUCAS TO BE ABLE TO INCREASE OCTAINE BY NUMBERS AND NOT POINTS?

If you are going to work with Toluene you should use a respirator with VOC filters. The stuff is nasty, and I would only use it in fuel systems set up for ethanol, etc. It can disolve a lot of things like paint and old varnish in fuel systems. It is carcinogenic also. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0619.html



Wannabe

Did you follow the link I put on that post to support my statement? If not here it is:
http://volvospeed.com/Review/misc_pe...e_booster.html
From the testing on that link they have shown that at oonly a 100-1 ratio it will raise your octane 3.5 actual points, Smitty

The real question is do you NEED more octane? If your motr doesn't require more octane then the base fuel your buying then the booster does absolutely NOTHING for you but cost you money. My own boat has a procharged 540 in it, I run around 12 psi of boost on 93 octane making 1050 hp with that pulley. If I am worried about my octane being questionable on my boat or I want to run my 14 psi pulley I throw in 15 or 20 gallons of race gas to boost the ocatane, for the most part I don't buy octane booster for my boat as it will help as a last resort but I never have to buy gas on the water, Smitty

How about buying 90-91 mid grade at the marina (usually ethanol free) then adding to bring octane up?

When you refer to 100:1 does that mean 1 bottle of boost per 100 gallons? If you could explain that part i would appreciate it. I am lost on the ratio parts. Also by 3.5 points you are referring to actual increase in the number in octane,not points correct? Nos has a boost out that claims 60 points and 6 numbers in octane. Can that be true? Or is lucas the leading competitor in the market. I got big cubic inches at 10:1 compression. Not really a high compression motor, just want some safety zone there when i lean on the sticks. With the deteriorating quality of pump gas i would like to be safe by having some more octane then just relying on a stations pump gas.

when the 110 octane I was buying for a few years went from $2.92 a gallon to over $6 per gallon in one week I started doing some research on having race fuel made and marketed. Most of the cheeper brand race fuels are 87 or lower octane offroad fuel with toluene and a little hydraulic oil mixed together. The toluene evaporating is why they loose octane over time so fast.

Turbo blue 110 octane is 51.7 gallons of 87 octane and 2 gallons of toulene and .3 gallons of hydraulic oil.

Sunoco high end fuel is the only race fuel that is not made from low octane pump fuel as a base

hmmmmm so a 55 gallon drum with 93 would be even higher? thats good info.

all so try xylene does the same thing

Did you open the link and read the testing I posted? Did you open the Lucas link and also read the calculations I posted???? When I say 100-1 its like mixing 2 stroke oil, at 1 oz to 100 oz would be called 100-1 which would raise your octane 3 NUMBERS or WHOLE points as I mentioned IE 93 to 96 octane, not these points that are 1/10 of 1 real point or number that these plastic bottle of cheap octane booster claim. Toraise your octane 3 or 4 points with the lucas and you had 100 gallons of fuel in your boat you would dump in 10 cans or 65$ worth of lucas at 6.50 a can, this would make your 93 octane 96 or so. To do this with the NOS stuff which if you opened nand read the link you would see it would cost 5 timesthat at 15$ a can and a 50-1 mix ratio-100 gallons gas x 128=12800 OZ/50= 256 oz of NOS crap. At 15$ a 12OZ can it would cost you over 300$ to raise your octane 4 points with NOS, waaay too exspensive (22 cans at 15$ a can), open the links I pasted several times, it shows the octane testing, Smitty

I have seen the same thing, Xylene raises the octane even higher than tolulene and is a little cheaper but I have still never found either for even close to price of just buying 112 octane race gas, Smitty

We spent a lot of years researching and messing with the stuff trying to make HP in very small engines. (Getting it past tech/fuel tests is a challenge.) It is very dangerous for a number of reasons as stated, and in the volume you guys are discussing, my advice is to buy race gas and beer and be healthy and happy.

Give Torco a try. I heard this is the best product for increasing octane. It's a fuel concentrate, not an octane booster.

http://torcoracefuel.net/pro-accelerator.html

Thank you for the information. It seems torco or lucus is the best alternative to race fuel

+1 on that !

Lets discuss financials-when raising octane it is ALWAYS the cheapest to start with the highest pump octane you can buy-ie 93 IF available
as far as cost to raise octane-the cheapest way to raise octane will be to add race gas or Tolulene IF available-lets say you want 100 gallons of 96.5 octane:
you buy 81 gallons of 93 octane-you want to see 96.5-you buy 19 gallons of 112 oct race gas at 7$ a gallon-puts your octane at 96.61-cost 133$$ BUT you would have paid 76$ for 19 gallons of 93 at 4$ a gallon so it really only cost you 57$ to get octane from 93 to 96.6
almost same cost-you buy 99 gallons of 93 octane, at 100-1 you add lucas , it will take 128 Oz's (9) 15 oz bottles at 6.50 a bottle= 58.50$ minus the 1 gallon you added at 4$=54.50$
Torco "Booster"-will take 140 oz (5 32 oz cans) added to 99 gallons of gas-will cost you 110$ at 22$ a can-minus the 1 gallon you added at 4$ a gal actual cost would be-106$
NOS- at the 80-1 mix it would take to get 100 gallons of 93 to 96.5 it would take 80 oz or 7 12 oz cans-would cost 105$ (minus the 4 $ worth of gas it would replace) actual cost of 101$
From everything I have read-if you want to raise octane even higher you can pretty much forget about adding bottles of octane booster becuse it does NOT raise ovctane linear like adding Race gas, tolulene or Xylene will , you have to double/triple the amt of octane booster to even gain another couple of numbers, it would quickly get very expensive. On the other hand, keep in mind when you are boosting your octane with race gas or Tolulene, even at 7$ a gallon for race gas you are replacing a gallon of premium that would have cost you 4$ anyways so its really only costing you 3$ a gallon for race gas. For anyone that want to figure mix ratios of 2 different octanes that hasn't figured it out, simply take the amt of base gas-say 90 gallons of 93-90X93=8370 then take the gallons of race gas-lets say 10 gallons of 112 -10 X 112=1120 then add them together and divide by total number of gallons-8370+1120=9490 divided by 100=94.9 octane, you can move the numbers around all you want to find your requirements, Smitty

VERY GOOD RESPONSE, THIS FORUM IS REALLY STATING TO FILL UP!!:eekdrop:

This sounds pretty decent from a cost standpoint??

I start out with AVGAS 100 octane as a base. Its about $5 a gallon, depending on area
.

Torco is must cheaper in 5 gallon drums.

http://store.bvmperformance.com/Torc...%205%20gal.htm

Tyson, are you sure of these numbers because they do not add up to me. I do not see any way 2 gallons of 114 octane toluene mixed with 51. 7 gallons of 87 octane fuel would give 110 octane fuel. From the little I know about this I figure it would take around 46 gallons of toluene and 8 gallons of 87 to make 54 gallons of 110 ocatane. This assumes that it is all linear for the octane rating when mixed together. Is lead also involved? Something else? Since the components you noted only add up to 54 gallons, do you know what the other gallon is?

Drums are only filled to 54ish gallons.... Room for product exspansion!