Svl 2013
 

Sounds like some new manufactures are looking at the SVL class. I do have one concern looking at the rules of all the orgs. The total length of a SVL is differant in the orgs.
OPA 30'
OSS/APBA 30'
SBI 32'
Being that there are no current SVL boats over the 30' why would there be a reason to have a 32' length in SBI? Can you imagine if a builder shows up with a 32' boat in SVL. These are called class killers. History has proven this over and over. Thoughts?

sounds like current svl owners who make up the class need to make a decesion before that happens

Mike

32' you whould need a lot more power?Last day races at Keys the extra 2' might help in the big water!?

Maybe the new boats are not being made for OPA? A possible solution would be to rename your class, "A class" cause well, isnt that what you guys boats were made for in reality?

If my memory serves me correct the original max length for SVL was 32 if I recall. I could be wrong but remember seeing that in a rule book years back. I think it was APBA LLC's rule book. Miklos I am sure could clarify that. What companies are building new boats???

I am pretty sure you are right DPT, but as all classes in offshore(no matter the letters on the flag that flies over them) have proven over history, they made the rules self serving in order to protect their own assets instead of thinking of the possibility of new technology and/or future growth

SBl rules have alway been 32ft. wth the new boats that are beng built it opens the class up to new manufactures. SBl is also looking at class name change not to confuse the fans with 2 different SVL's.
As l said in another post we are looking at different motor options for the futhure.

You cant design a class with rules for one type boat design.

If they do build new boats at 32' then it should be a NEW class all together IMO. Length is KING. My guess is that in years past most didnt think you could build a boat 32' at current weight 4750 lbs. New materials now allow it to happen.
PS: I started this in the wrong section. If someone wants to move it to the racing section I understand. Sorry

Nothing has changed it was always 32ft l think some changed were made receptly to design the class to certain boats.

l beleive the new Bandit 310 is a 31ft and fits in the SBl rules.

Not necessarily, your old A boats were constructed to hold up to 900 hp and withstand the rigors of those speeds and power.

Xtreme, I stand corrected and apologize... I was wrong when I said no matter the letters on the flag. You guys did make your rules to promote technology and future growth. What popped into my mind was the one race wonder organization and how the 850/750 leader got 5 votes when everyone else had 1, SCL was custom taylored by that rep and killed that class, and some guy became self serving in SVL and killed the class to 3 boats total, down from 10......

F1-00
We are trying to look to the future, l thnk the futhure is around the corner. l have spoke to 4-5 builders that are fnally show interest in the class and also motor builders. But as we all know it the racers that
will make or break the class they always do, and pretty good at kill a class.

That is one of the main reason the new Superboat class will do so well, because of the support from motor builders and boat builder that have jumped in to help grow the class. There were 6 SuperBoat running in KW with 4 different motor builders, and 3-4 dfferent boat bulders represented. This is a receipt for sucess, so we are going to try and do the samething in the SV class. The days of building a class around one engine manufacturer and one boat builder is history that was tried 10 yrs ago. Sometime you have to learn to let go of the past, and move forward.

It all sound good. Let me know when you find a bunch of guy's that are willing to spend over $200k on a SVL. Then add the cost of a motor program,drive,prop and lets not forget hours and hours of test and R&D.
On the other hand there are 15-20 existing SVL's that with proven reliable spec power (Merc 525) are all very competitive and most are not worth more than $60K. Which class do you think has the best potential for growth??? Time will tell.

Racing isnt cheap no one every said that, but not as much as u think.
You talk about price of a motor program a lot less then giving Merc $12,000 and l'm not sure for what ?

As an variable outsider lookin in I was under the impression that the reason why SVL was growing so well was that there were so many very good boats out there, ex A-boats or some a bit newer that someone could buy, rig or rerig and go racing competively for relatively short money. I would have gone that way myself it it wasn't for wanting a weekend boat as well.
Most of the drivers and owners that I've met are workin guys who come from p classes and various open boats . Are they going to go out and spend that kind of dough ,200k plus as Typhoon says, on a new rig? I wouldn't. How many are out there that would? I know people that are trying to sell brand new boats for what they have in resin costs and not succeeding .
To all you SVL guys, keep doin what your doing cause its fun to watch. If it were me in a 30 svl and I had 6-9 other buddies I ran with deck to deck all the time I would want to keep a mongrle boat out. If that same boat came up with 4 others then start a new class. BTW what happened with the prop dyno thing I remembered hearing about last spring?
Brian

lf you know of 20 active SVL that ARE racing?? l dont know where they are.

lf SVL program now is all that you say and as cheap as u say and doesnt need change how come there wasnt more then 6 boats at any one race this yr??

The Bandit 310 was $40,00 plus motor, drive, rigging and doesnt fit in your program so how is that $200,000 ??? Not really sure what you are talking about but scare tactic usually work. Please do your research before you just throught number out there. Do you know what you acn buy a 32 Extreme twin step boat ? lts not fair to do that to a racer
that may be looking at the class and doesnt know any better and think that it really would coat that much to by a new boat.

l guess my question to you is, anyone that wants to buy a new boat or a boat has to buy a 10 yr old boat to race SVL?

Not to beat this to death again but I may need to hear this again slower. Do we all agree that we all have to start with a stock Merc 525 (arox 565 HP). I put it in boat and race it for at least 3 years with no maintance other than oil changes. I can even race the same motor for as much as 4-5 years (100 hours) with just possably a valve spring change only. At some time I may want to refresh my motor and Merc will do a complete rebuild including new heads and dyno for aprox 12K. And they give me my old heads and parts back.
Your way is take a stock 525 and tear it down,punch it out 30 over,raise the compression and modify the ECM with unlimitted timing,rpm and what ever other paramitors you want. A HP range on this new motor is aprox 625-675. The drive needs to handel the extra HP and torque and I would have to think the extra RPM and HP would mean more rebuilds and reliability issues.
Please break it down for me on how this is better value and how this is not as much as u think??
Im not looking for an argument just something I must be missing. You are as passionate as I am so trust me I do listen to your view points.
Randy

We can beat this to death you r right so for now l'll let it go. One quick clarification so we agaln dont glve anyone the wrong ldea. The motors turn up 5600-5700 RPM at max HP, so turning them up any high is a dls advantage less HP, and pretty much ever motor that l have seen ls between 610-630. The drive are not an lssue at all and rebuilds on the motors are every 2 yrs, hope that answer some of the confuslon.

You are welcome to see the dyno sheets anytime if you r really intrerested.

My question is, why not just run a stock motor? Everyone has the same exact motor. Period. Similar to factory racing. Different hulls and teams make the difference. Leave the motor out of. Take that piece of the puzzle out of the equation. Factory racing was huge. The F1 and F2 classes brought more teams to a venue than most races have all together now.

The many reason is they cant be teched, and you cant ck the RPM same as the Factory day when teams were runnng hot motor now its a even playing feild,there are some many merc seals out there how can that possble work. lts a free pass wlth seals once there sealed everone thlnk well he has to be legal WRONG you know that, how many teams got caught with sealed motors? The other thing is to get away from being locked to one motor builder that can fx a price to what ever they want. When Merc was helping the racers yrs ago that helped some but now theres no advantage. There are tons of motor builder out there that can build the same motor as good or better for way less money and some support this would keep the cost down a lot, and they need the business.

Last l heard to get your motor sealed at Merc lf lt needed lt or not you had to get a rebulld to go on the dyno to get sealed , and that ended up beng $10,000- $12,000 not lke the old days.

Randy,

Unless you want another novel, go away! The horse is dead. I only skimmed the surface of the unforgivable harm YOU have done over the years to this sport and I am far from perfect, but dang I never cost an association $250,000 a year like you did....

Here it is for those who dont want to do the homework and want to see FACTS:

Mercury Racing 525EFI Used: $15,000-$18,000 I will use 15,000 to keep it easy as a base

OPA legal motor: $15,000 + $9,200(Mercury only) + 1,000(shipping)=$25,200 total (NOT ENFORCED)

SBI legal motor: $15,000 + $5000(any motor builder) + 1,000(shipping, for giggles)=$21,000 total(Parameters allowed are FULLY enforced)

Expectant life of both orgs motors is 2-3 years before a freshening needed, minus springs(once a year) and regular maintenance, which should be done on any race motor

Bottom line: It will cost you $4,200 more to have a "OPA legal motor" and it is not enforced. I thought saving money was supposed to be the goal:whistle:

As I said before, clean your own house and figure out how to enforce the eloquent rules that you wrote and cry for, then come public and bash anyone you want. And please quit putting out FALSE information about costs etc, it only makes you look like more of an idiot and the association that you represent

I already said I like your rules better(if they would ever be enforced) but yet you are so hung up on stuff that doesnt even affect you. Are you even an SBI member? I'll answer it for you, NO. So as I have said time and time again, worry about keeping your enablers(the guys that buy boats for you and pay for you to race) happy and let it all happen the way it will all fall into place. Before anyone spends dime one on either the old or the new, they will do extensive homework and the FALSE information that you put out there, isnt a real good selling feature for the group you represent once they find out the truth

I understand you will always have guys that cheat. Its part of racing. How many times was the Watch your back team caught? Cheaters will always give you some excuse.

Is Mercs price that far out of hand? I just cant see how you can police these guys better when your back to using carbs and antiquated ways.

We all know some guys had hot motors in the factory days. But most were straight up. I think 97 had the guys disqualified, but after that most of the motors that were impounded were legal. 98-01 they were all legal fo the winners at the worlds.

Why does SBI allow the motors to be turned up? What is the reasoning behind this move? Just faster speeds?

restrictor plate :whistle: tons of other automotive racing leagues use plates to level the field when the engines are not even close. LeMans, Wrc, Nascar, F1, Super GT, etc, Cheap and easy to enforce.

The speeds are not that far out of line,maybe 1-2 mph if they're lucky. IMHO SBI saw how OPA's Super Vee class went to the "there is only so much you can do to a 525" rules and saw that it was in fact easier and more cost effective for enforcement procedures. The PCM 555 has been cracked and can easily be reprogrammed and Merc seals are easily obtainable from various outlets ie EBay as well as there is no affordable conclusive ways to verify RPM's. The closest that they have come is the approx $2000 datalogger that is run by SunPrint.

In talking with several of the guys on the SBI side, I saw that they are wanting to open it up to all engine builders(you can only do so much within the parameters set) and with the total lack of support from the 2 billion a year cash cow for Brunswick, allow the guys that show up and will support their product(within reason) an opportunity.

l said ln another thread that some of the racers were talking about carb motors but they all thought l was crazy atleast someone else see's the tree through the frostest with us...MSD would be a big help. But lts somethng we r just looking at for the future, and the bulders we spoke to can make those motor for a much better price and reliable. We can govern the RPM 100% that way and use RPM for parity pretty easy.

Nice clean simple real race motor thats reliable and affordable

Hopefully you guys will figure it all out and come up with something that works. Would be nice to have everyone be able to race together.

time
 

Come on guys my new customer< my new shop> our new boat is waiting for you'll, lets do out of the BOX!!! All of us understand some have more that can make their box looks like our box. Someone has to police the box. Our project for another piece depends on you'll. Let us know your show or fun poker runs with A/C and a cooler.

Whats the price for a new OUTERLIMITS SVL on a trailer ready to win . I would think 175 to 200 grand. there non lid boat with a 525 was sellimg around 175. I heard at a pokerrun , while I was talking to Mike's dad Paul.We were talking about how cool it would be to pull my Gellner 1100 out of the 28 saber and put into the new 29 OL lol. I would luv to run svl. hope to run the saber in 5 or4 one of these days or even put the 24ol back together run class 6. just don't have the funds or health right now.:eekdrop:

how true, I do think OPA is the gas and has done a nice job with racing up here in the mid northern states.I just wish they came up to NH/MASS HOLE/ AND RI with races.:cartman:

Air Time good luck and hope it all comes together for you.

All this bull$hit is why SVL sucks!

My boat is for sale! Can't deal with this $hit any more. Time for a change.

Everyone had the same rules. Now you guys want to change the rules between several sanctioning bodies. again. This is only going to divide the group and you will have less boats per group. Why not take a (stock) 502 make everyone run same cam, heads intake and same fuel injection. make it a 500 hp motor with rev at 5200. make it simple and relatively cheap. I am sure MSD and holly make it so you can police the stuff if you dont like merc. Who cares who makes it as long as you all are the same. period.Stop trying to make more HP and rev higher.

Why did BOB Teague not come to the world this year? He builds his own motors.

Teague didnt race because SBl doesnt offer SCL any longer, but he was there looking at the new SuperBoat class, and said he was lnterested for next yr. l know Bob and JC spoke about lt for a while and Bob seemed like he liked what he seen, same as a lot of other.

Not sure but what does teague have to do wth SVL ??

Just so lts clear there are no changes being made to the SBl SVL rules. We are talking about a few different solutions for motors period. There was some talk ln KW about a few dfferent thing wth some of the teams.

SBl SVL welcome all SVL boat new and Old , we are excited that there are teams working with some builders and showing lnterest ln the class.

One last note so lt clear also,the racers voted on the rules last conferance call we had there was 8 teams on the line so l guess its what the racers wanted. l know all the non racers on here want to make the rule and what easy or not, but the SBl racers are not complaining so not sure what the problem is. lf there ls a motor change lt will be what the racers want not SBl, so if anything changes it will be what the class wants, every registered team gets a vote.

I was curious as to why when SBI got rid of SCL he didnt change motor. Looks like SBI is trying to do the same with SVL. Get rid of merc and use what ya brung.

It doesnt matter to me who you use as far as motors. However, there sure seems to be a dislike towards merc. I have a brand new svl bottom. Never hit the water. I just wont waste my time or money until you guys fig it out and get a grip on the rules.

The main reason is the SCL class bottom were gone 2 boats ln a class lsnt good for the sport and again lts what the racers wanted. The motor thng was voted on by the class so maybe one of the SB guys can answer that but l can tell you the main reason l was told was affordablity

Warlock seems like u have a lot of question about the SBl rules, are you planing to race ths yr?