Duramax boat engines????
#11
Registered
Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duramax marine engines have been in production in Europe for years. Banks purchased the North American rights but never brought a production model to market. The "MarineDiesel" Duramax's have been available here for a little over a year now. They've got several models and HP ratings. The VGT gives it excellent hole shot and fuel economy. It's a very nice, relatively lightweight package that takes up about as much space as a 496, and has proven itself in commercial and military applications all over the world.
http://www.marinedieselengineering.com/md/engines/tsc/
http://www.marinedieselengineering.com/md/engines/tsc/
#12
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Duramax marine engines have been in production in Europe for years. Banks purchased the North American rights but never brought a production model to market. The "MarineDiesel" Duramax's have been available here for a little over a year now. They've got several models and HP ratings. The VGT gives it excellent hole shot and fuel economy. It's a very nice, relatively lightweight package that takes up about as much space as a 496, and has proven itself in commercial and military applications all over the world.
http://www.marinedieselengineering.com/md/engines/tsc/
http://www.marinedieselengineering.com/md/engines/tsc/
#13
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Typically these turbo diesels make nearly double the torque of the HP number.
#14
Registered
iTrader: (5)
A 700 hp diesel is going to use less fuel than a gas counterpart. More btu's available in diesel fuel, and they can be run at near peak power for hours on end. They are way over built to handle monster torque.
Torque output is probably tamed down so some kind of drive could live behind it. If you increase the rpm at which the engine makes peak power it decreases the amount of torque. All about moving the powerband to where it works for the intended application.
1500 ft lbs. doesn't do much good if you need an 18x40 prop but can only turn the motor 3200 rpm. Just a matter of making it all work together.
#15
Registered
Someone please explain to me how torque can be tamed, turned down etc? Because X Hp at X rpm = X torque, to my limited knowledge there is no way around that?
You can vary the power output at different rpm's to achieve a different curve but at the end of the curve it is till hp= T x RPM/5252.
The supercharger, you are correct it is for low end power to get on plane, Volvo did this a number of years ago. If you look at the turbos they appear to be old style non VGT's so with 2 there is absolutely no bottom end power they need the SC to make positive pressure to build some exh temp and then they can have some boost - this maybe very OLD SCHOOL but is practical and works great! The only disadvantage is you can see the SC does not have a clutch or whirlaway as to disengage it once the turbo boost overcomes the SC (that was done as far back as GM EMD diesel's for ships & locomotives).
The 700hp is 1.75hp per cui which is very high but liveable if in a typical pleasure application where WOT is not more than 10% of total hours. Probably 500 hr at most between OH. That gives you 50 hrs at WOT which no gas engine can come remotely close too at that HP/cui!!!
This is a good practical package still and it looks cool which is 85% of the game, Yanmars, Cummins, CATs just do not look sexy in a performance boat!
There is little difference in gas hp vs diesel hp at the prop - you all know the gas engine uses reduction gears so torque is multiplied. You all have read whether it's me, Weissman, Cookee, Hustler, OL (the 4 engine boat), RIK, etc, etc that the fast diesel boats use overdrive gears. Once the props speeds are equaled through gearing it's all the same.
You can vary the power output at different rpm's to achieve a different curve but at the end of the curve it is till hp= T x RPM/5252.
The supercharger, you are correct it is for low end power to get on plane, Volvo did this a number of years ago. If you look at the turbos they appear to be old style non VGT's so with 2 there is absolutely no bottom end power they need the SC to make positive pressure to build some exh temp and then they can have some boost - this maybe very OLD SCHOOL but is practical and works great! The only disadvantage is you can see the SC does not have a clutch or whirlaway as to disengage it once the turbo boost overcomes the SC (that was done as far back as GM EMD diesel's for ships & locomotives).
The 700hp is 1.75hp per cui which is very high but liveable if in a typical pleasure application where WOT is not more than 10% of total hours. Probably 500 hr at most between OH. That gives you 50 hrs at WOT which no gas engine can come remotely close too at that HP/cui!!!
This is a good practical package still and it looks cool which is 85% of the game, Yanmars, Cummins, CATs just do not look sexy in a performance boat!
There is little difference in gas hp vs diesel hp at the prop - you all know the gas engine uses reduction gears so torque is multiplied. You all have read whether it's me, Weissman, Cookee, Hustler, OL (the 4 engine boat), RIK, etc, etc that the fast diesel boats use overdrive gears. Once the props speeds are equaled through gearing it's all the same.
#16
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am sure Banks is testing that rail somewhere but it has not been to any diesel events in a couple years. To my knowledge the SC on diesel's is still a work in progress, i could be wrong...I just have not seen anyone make a big splash with a supercharger. Banks is still chasing the old tractor motor...
#17
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone please explain to me how torque can be tamed, turned down etc? Because X Hp at X rpm = X torque, to my limited knowledge there is no way around that?
You can vary the power output at different rpm's to achieve a different curve but at the end of the curve it is till hp= T x RPM/5252.
The supercharger, you are correct it is for low end power to get on plane, Volvo did this a number of years ago. If you look at the turbos they appear to be old style non VGT's so with 2 there is absolutely no bottom end power they need the SC to make positive pressure to build some exh temp and then they can have some boost - this maybe very OLD SCHOOL but is practical and works great! The only disadvantage is you can see the SC does not have a clutch or whirlaway as to disengage it once the turbo boost overcomes the SC (that was done as far back as GM EMD diesel's for ships & locomotives).
The 700hp is 1.75hp per cui which is very high but liveable if in a typical pleasure application where WOT is not more than 10% of total hours. Probably 500 hr at most between OH. That gives you 50 hrs at WOT which no gas engine can come remotely close too at that HP/cui!!!
This is a good practical package still and it looks cool which is 85% of the game, Yanmars, Cummins, CATs just do not look sexy in a performance boat!
There is little difference in gas hp vs diesel hp at the prop - you all know the gas engine uses reduction gears so torque is multiplied. You all have read whether it's me, Weissman, Cookee, Hustler, OL (the 4 engine boat), RIK, etc, etc that the fast diesel boats use overdrive gears. Once the props speeds are equaled through gearing it's all the same.
You can vary the power output at different rpm's to achieve a different curve but at the end of the curve it is till hp= T x RPM/5252.
The supercharger, you are correct it is for low end power to get on plane, Volvo did this a number of years ago. If you look at the turbos they appear to be old style non VGT's so with 2 there is absolutely no bottom end power they need the SC to make positive pressure to build some exh temp and then they can have some boost - this maybe very OLD SCHOOL but is practical and works great! The only disadvantage is you can see the SC does not have a clutch or whirlaway as to disengage it once the turbo boost overcomes the SC (that was done as far back as GM EMD diesel's for ships & locomotives).
The 700hp is 1.75hp per cui which is very high but liveable if in a typical pleasure application where WOT is not more than 10% of total hours. Probably 500 hr at most between OH. That gives you 50 hrs at WOT which no gas engine can come remotely close too at that HP/cui!!!
This is a good practical package still and it looks cool which is 85% of the game, Yanmars, Cummins, CATs just do not look sexy in a performance boat!
There is little difference in gas hp vs diesel hp at the prop - you all know the gas engine uses reduction gears so torque is multiplied. You all have read whether it's me, Weissman, Cookee, Hustler, OL (the 4 engine boat), RIK, etc, etc that the fast diesel boats use overdrive gears. Once the props speeds are equaled through gearing it's all the same.
#18
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Habana,
I found some old threads with you discussing this. What would it take to do this in a performance application? I assume the engines, probably arnesons, and some type of 2/3 speed gearbox.
Would this type of setup perform the same/better/worse as a 700/nxt package? The reason I ask is because my truck only has 365 hp but with the torque it seems like it has a lot more.
I found some old threads with you discussing this. What would it take to do this in a performance application? I assume the engines, probably arnesons, and some type of 2/3 speed gearbox.
Would this type of setup perform the same/better/worse as a 700/nxt package? The reason I ask is because my truck only has 365 hp but with the torque it seems like it has a lot more.
#19
Registered
with tuning? That's the smart azz answer and I can laugh at that
I read many diesel things on OSO in general and there seems to be, sometimes, an idea that you change the final torque numbers of an engine with same HP and rpm - that's what I would like to know "how that's done" because I can't figure it out?
The engine is the engine against the governor, only gearing can change the torque figure if measured at the output but it is still hp= T x RPM/5252?
I read many diesel things on OSO in general and there seems to be, sometimes, an idea that you change the final torque numbers of an engine with same HP and rpm - that's what I would like to know "how that's done" because I can't figure it out?
The engine is the engine against the governor, only gearing can change the torque figure if measured at the output but it is still hp= T x RPM/5252?
#20
Registered
iTrader: (5)
Turbo sizing, camshaft profile, tuning via the ECM since this is a common rail engine. I was able to move my torque peak all over depending on my timing map. It's no real secret. If you want a stock rod duramax to live at 500-550 hp bring the timing in late and keep the torque peak over 2300 rpm and under 1100 ft lbs.