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Duramax boat engines????

Old 01-13-2013, 10:14 PM
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Duramax marine engines have been in production in Europe for years. Banks purchased the North American rights but never brought a production model to market. The "MarineDiesel" Duramax's have been available here for a little over a year now. They've got several models and HP ratings. The VGT gives it excellent hole shot and fuel economy. It's a very nice, relatively lightweight package that takes up about as much space as a 496, and has proven itself in commercial and military applications all over the world.

http://www.marinedieselengineering.com/md/engines/tsc/
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by HaxbySpeed
Duramax marine engines have been in production in Europe for years. Banks purchased the North American rights but never brought a production model to market. The "MarineDiesel" Duramax's have been available here for a little over a year now. They've got several models and HP ratings. The VGT gives it excellent hole shot and fuel economy. It's a very nice, relatively lightweight package that takes up about as much space as a 496, and has proven itself in commercial and military applications all over the world.

http://www.marinedieselengineering.com/md/engines/tsc/
Aside from the TSC don't know why you would want any of these over a Yanmar. A lot more bulk and no more power.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by thisistank
Sweet!

Anyone know what the boat was that they tested these motors in?

And can someone explain how a twin turbo'd AND supercharged motor only puts out 700hp?? Explain how 700 HP in diesel format is different from 700hp in gas format please.
I can only guess to make it very reliable, it would seem it would be very easy to make much more power. Also maybe the turbo/super combo was done to keep the torque down. Just speculation on my part.

Typically these turbo diesels make nearly double the torque of the HP number.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by thisistank
Sweet!

Anyone know what the boat was that they tested these motors in?

And can someone explain how a twin turbo'd AND supercharged motor only puts out 700hp?? Explain how 700 HP in diesel format is different from 700hp in gas format please.
Banks is real big on the "no smoke" campaign. The supercharger and twins isn't setup to increase power. They use it for throttle response and to clean up the fuel.

A 700 hp diesel is going to use less fuel than a gas counterpart. More btu's available in diesel fuel, and they can be run at near peak power for hours on end. They are way over built to handle monster torque.

Torque output is probably tamed down so some kind of drive could live behind it. If you increase the rpm at which the engine makes peak power it decreases the amount of torque. All about moving the powerband to where it works for the intended application.
1500 ft lbs. doesn't do much good if you need an 18x40 prop but can only turn the motor 3200 rpm. Just a matter of making it all work together.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:41 AM
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Someone please explain to me how torque can be tamed, turned down etc? Because X Hp at X rpm = X torque, to my limited knowledge there is no way around that?

You can vary the power output at different rpm's to achieve a different curve but at the end of the curve it is till hp= T x RPM/5252.

The supercharger, you are correct it is for low end power to get on plane, Volvo did this a number of years ago. If you look at the turbos they appear to be old style non VGT's so with 2 there is absolutely no bottom end power they need the SC to make positive pressure to build some exh temp and then they can have some boost - this maybe very OLD SCHOOL but is practical and works great! The only disadvantage is you can see the SC does not have a clutch or whirlaway as to disengage it once the turbo boost overcomes the SC (that was done as far back as GM EMD diesel's for ships & locomotives).

The 700hp is 1.75hp per cui which is very high but liveable if in a typical pleasure application where WOT is not more than 10% of total hours. Probably 500 hr at most between OH. That gives you 50 hrs at WOT which no gas engine can come remotely close too at that HP/cui!!!

This is a good practical package still and it looks cool which is 85% of the game, Yanmars, Cummins, CATs just do not look sexy in a performance boat!

There is little difference in gas hp vs diesel hp at the prop - you all know the gas engine uses reduction gears so torque is multiplied. You all have read whether it's me, Weissman, Cookee, Hustler, OL (the 4 engine boat), RIK, etc, etc that the fast diesel boats use overdrive gears. Once the props speeds are equaled through gearing it's all the same.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:49 AM
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I am sure Banks is testing that rail somewhere but it has not been to any diesel events in a couple years. To my knowledge the SC on diesel's is still a work in progress, i could be wrong...I just have not seen anyone make a big splash with a supercharger. Banks is still chasing the old tractor motor...
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by HabanaJoe
Someone please explain to me how torque can be tamed, turned down etc? Because X Hp at X rpm = X torque, to my limited knowledge there is no way around that?

You can vary the power output at different rpm's to achieve a different curve but at the end of the curve it is till hp= T x RPM/5252.

The supercharger, you are correct it is for low end power to get on plane, Volvo did this a number of years ago. If you look at the turbos they appear to be old style non VGT's so with 2 there is absolutely no bottom end power they need the SC to make positive pressure to build some exh temp and then they can have some boost - this maybe very OLD SCHOOL but is practical and works great! The only disadvantage is you can see the SC does not have a clutch or whirlaway as to disengage it once the turbo boost overcomes the SC (that was done as far back as GM EMD diesel's for ships & locomotives).

The 700hp is 1.75hp per cui which is very high but liveable if in a typical pleasure application where WOT is not more than 10% of total hours. Probably 500 hr at most between OH. That gives you 50 hrs at WOT which no gas engine can come remotely close too at that HP/cui!!!

This is a good practical package still and it looks cool which is 85% of the game, Yanmars, Cummins, CATs just do not look sexy in a performance boat!

There is little difference in gas hp vs diesel hp at the prop - you all know the gas engine uses reduction gears so torque is multiplied. You all have read whether it's me, Weissman, Cookee, Hustler, OL (the 4 engine boat), RIK, etc, etc that the fast diesel boats use overdrive gears. Once the props speeds are equaled through gearing it's all the same.
With tuning...
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:53 AM
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Habana,

I found some old threads with you discussing this. What would it take to do this in a performance application? I assume the engines, probably arnesons, and some type of 2/3 speed gearbox.

Would this type of setup perform the same/better/worse as a 700/nxt package? The reason I ask is because my truck only has 365 hp but with the torque it seems like it has a lot more.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:02 AM
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with tuning? That's the smart azz answer and I can laugh at that

I read many diesel things on OSO in general and there seems to be, sometimes, an idea that you change the final torque numbers of an engine with same HP and rpm - that's what I would like to know "how that's done" because I can't figure it out?

The engine is the engine against the governor, only gearing can change the torque figure if measured at the output but it is still hp= T x RPM/5252?
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:05 AM
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Turbo sizing, camshaft profile, tuning via the ECM since this is a common rail engine. I was able to move my torque peak all over depending on my timing map. It's no real secret. If you want a stock rod duramax to live at 500-550 hp bring the timing in late and keep the torque peak over 2300 rpm and under 1100 ft lbs.
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