How to make a 46‘ Cig 12mph faster…
 

This is an excerpt of a 2002 test report of a 14000lbs., 1800hp Cig 46’. ‘Boating’ is a reputable Magazine, Eric Colby a reputable writer
but I can’t believe that 1 3/8” make such a difference at that relatively low speed. What do you think:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...0/cig461-1.jpg

we missing a link?:whistle:

wow

I remember this test report...It has always made me think every boat out there has another 5+mph with simple set-up adjustments and fine tuning. It also takes a guy who really knows how a certain boat reacts to small changes. I am spending this season (when it gets here) trying to get 4-5mph with props, tuning, and minor tweaks. Plus I have a guy who knows my boat way better than I do that will be helping me.

Hmm, I just had 2 water pickups removed from the hull on my boat. Each one was about the size of a half of a baseball. One was for a generator and the other for an a/c, neither of which I used. I wonder what that will do?

amazing....

Perhaps engines with out of thermostats?
In this case mean 35 psi to much cooling water and cool engines with out of efficiency. Engine work like car engine with chock, when you start you car in winter time.
15 psi mean optimum engine cooling and standard power.

That figures... There's not a whole lot of people who can afford 46' Cigs, but those who can don't have to spend any money to gain 12mph. The average Joe with the average boat has to spend a lot of there hard earned money just to see a few extra mph, unbelievable.

We had a customer with a 26 Checkmate raise is drive 1/8 of an inch and find 8mph. We also found that a low hanging speedometer pickup on a 24 Skater was 6mph

Your question was "what do you think"

To me reading the words that are there, it says this to me:

We took the boat out and ran it up to about 98mph BUT the water pressure was to high and we stopped. Then shortened the pick-ups and ran it again, stopped again water pressure to high and did this 3 times in total. After the 3rd try we were able to push the throttles up to 5,800 we were now going 112 mph and only had 15psi of water pressure so no engine damage would occur.

I don't think at any other time does the article say this was all the speed the boat had, it says the water pressure was to high, so by cutting down the tubes I could run the boat faster and be safe. We now could go 112mph, I think the article makes you believe 3 things:

1) the 1 1/2" on water pick-up slowed the boat down

2) the people at Cigarette at that time had no experience rigging boats, have no history of how to install the simpliest of things like pick-up tubes and as manufactures of fast boat they are not very good at making them go as fast as they can

3) Customers need a good dealer like Phil to straighten out what the factory can't do themselves

I don't know if the tubes made the difference or not, I know they make some difference but you asked what I thought and I take away from this it was a great marketing article for Phil.

I know that Nigel Hook experimented with water pickups and found speed in his Lucas race boat. In his case, he not only trimmed them way down to get to the right water pressure, but he also moved it to the bottom of the rudder (of course not many boats have a rudder). It was found that the pickup in front of the drives was also aerating the water causing just the slightest amount of additional slip. I am not surprised it made a difference in the Cigarette. Drag has a multiplying effect as speed increases, so a tiny change at big speeds can make a huge difference on the top end (just like planes and cars). Just think how much investment would need to be made in power to pick up that kind of speed.

Great post.... to a well crafted article. Thanks

[QUOTE=HabanaJoe;3858896]Your question was "what do you think?"
2) the people at Cigarette at that time had no experience rigging boats, have no history of how to install the simpliest of things like pick-up tubes and as manufactures of fast boat they are not very good at making them go as fast as they can

Agreed....but, I dont think Cigarette actually ever claimed to make fast boats. Stylish and sexy claims? yes. Now if Reggie worked there...that would be a different story!

[QUOTE=kreed;3858938]You have a point, I stand corrected :)

One more point, if we all concede the 1 1/5" made a 12 mph increase. If you wanted a great marketing peice and you know the tubes make a tremenedous difference, Phil being a very smart guy (he really is a smart guy) would have a customers boat shipped to him with uncut pick-ups and being the dealer he is, would take the boat out, run it and get every ounce of speed he can get from it for his customer - because he is a good dealer that goes the extra mile for his customers!

When we tested at the old Lake X we found about 8 mph with the speedo pick up removed on our 32' Skater. :ernaehrung004: I cant tell you how many wins that may have cost us against the AGITATOR. :party-smiley-004:

We just never put one on Wits End :whistle: :lolhit:

[QUOTE=HabanaJoe;3858940]Agreed about Phil. And not for nothing, as a Cig owner, it would be nice to have Cigarette be able to make some speed claims....Theyve done a nice job with rigging, bling, and such....they need a speedster!

How to some people 100+ MPH boats are no longer speedsters is strange to me. I know what you're referring to but it just came off strange to me.

good info! as i redo my old ill play with the pickups.

didnt cig make a kelo run with a maxmis hull? it fell a few short but the bottom was a true cig V no pad?

also i dont think the guys who set out to buy a cig are looking to be the fastes. its style, ride and the name.

I don't think it was a Maximus hull. Iirc I read skater suggested a pad and cig insisted on a true v. And it was too sketchy over 150 or so? I may be completely wrong I've inhaled a lot of dust lately.

The speedo pickup removed was good for 2mph in my Talon. Getting my 325# friend out of the boat was good for another 3 mph. Love ya Sparky.

A 46 foot Rough Rider, 18,000 lbs, 2002 hull technology, 910 HP per side - and they claim 112+ mph. :whistle:

Hi!

In the world of outboards a jackplate does the trick. Jacking a engine up 5 inches easy translates to 6-8 mph depending on the hull. A jackplate is the best investment for us outboard heads who aim for speed :)

Cheers Toffen

so my water preasure is pegged at 35+ at WOT as well. brings me to the next question which is, what is the correct water preasure at WOT and does it vary by engine builder and HP.

I sharpened the Imco -1 skegs and got 1.5 MPH

+1

I shoot for 15 to 18 psi at full throttle. Keeps the steam pockets from ruining your day.

Consult your builder as it also depends on the type of cooling system the engine is using. Open vs. Closed cooled, extra coolers, etc.......

Power required goes up with the cube of the velocity. With the significant density of water and the speeds they were running I have no doubt that small obstructions in the water made for big drag.

30 mph you may not notice much. 100 mph you will.

Also depends on the head gaskets used as to how much danger you are in when being over pressure. No matter what, pegged or 35psi is too much.

Brad Smith helped design this regulator to protect engines against too much water pressure. It cures the problem of needing to raise the pickup(s) to lower water pressure at high speeds, but in turn do not have enough water pressure at low speeds.

http://www.cpperformance.com/p-16737...ief-valve.aspx

Absolutley correct. The hull was not a Maximus is was a new design that was Epoxy layed up by Skater. It was a true V with no pad because Skip wanted to stay true to the roots of Cig (no pads). It was CRAZY fast! In 2006, Cigarette Racing attempted to beat the Kilo record and recorded a one-way pass of 172 mph, however its average was 163.759 mph.



From the Powerboat Magazine article:

... The 46 is all epoxy, weighs in at a little over 10,000.

"For hernandez (Neil), it was imoportant that it wasnt a "potato-chip boat" but had a similar weight to the models coming out of the Cigarette factory."

Bud Lorow & crew spent more than four months rigging it.

The power...

570 Cubic Inches
Quad (4) Turbos (hence quadzilla! )
Control System and layout similar to the 1075s
merc. wouldnt say anything else...estimation of 1800 horses
Inline Configuration
Dry-Sump No. 6s spinning Herings

"Tomlinson estimated the V-Bottom would have to run 180 mph exiting the trap to break the record. "Its probably not the thing to do right now," he said.But Tomlinson was confident the boat could run in the 180-mph range provided more work was done to the bottom and setup. "I've never run anything that felt like that kind of power-nothing, ever," Tomlinson said." ...

As a side note, these quad turbo'd "secret" motors were the pre-curser and R&D for the now ever so popular 1350 Turbos. It's like the aero space program. We don't get to know about stuff til yeeeeeeeeeers later. :lolhit:

I believe JT said that driving the boat at speed was like balancing a bowling ball on a razor blade.

That was the exact quote, yes. He and the team were sure they could make the boat go safely 180+ with a pad but the project was stopped after the one and only attempt.

Where's the boat now?? Should I start saving my $$$$?

It's around. It was the red and white "strength & honor" boat after they cut the top off. Then it was repainted again black and white with new interior and it sold. It runs the FPC poker runs all the time. Sick boat. VERY rare and unique.

It's the baddest cig out there. I see it all the time when I'm in Florida cause the shop that does all of our warranty work on the verados, also takes care of this cig.

Back to the whole h2o pressure issue. What should your psi be on a twin engine, outboard cat, at WOT? Right now I have 25-30psi. thanks

[QUOTE=thisistank;3859579]Absolutley correct. The hull was not a Maximus is was a new design that was Epoxy layed up by Skater. It was a true V with no pad because Skip wanted to stay true to the roots of Cig (no pads). It was CRAZY fast! In 2006, Cigarette Racing attempted to beat the Kilo record and recorded a one-way pass of 172 mph, however its average was 163.759 mph.

From the Powerboat Magazine article:

[I]... The 46 is all epoxy, weighs in at a little over 10,000.

"For hernandez (Neil), it was imoportant that it wasnt a "potato-chip boat" but had a similar weight to the models coming out of the Cigarette factory."



I heard rummours but, Is this the same hull that Skater is offering as the 488V? Does Skater have a pad on theirs? I can't find a pic of the Tainted Lady's bottom anywhere.....:lolhit:

With regards to the Brad Smith regulators - would each motor be fitted with the regulator and do away with the crossover?

How to make ..
 

Hi,

Depending on what kind of engines you have you should be fine with 15 psi. So you can jack up your engines for sure - and gain speed.

Cheeers, Toffen