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Old 07-19-2002, 08:58 PM
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Default Engine Guru"s

I just had another comp roller lifter fail which led to the axle breaking out of the lifter body, contact with cam etc. I run a big cam with lots of lift and "too much" spring for my rpms. cam is 280/288 @.050 with .785 lift on 115 centerline, springs are 340# on the seat with 950# opening at 1.125 lift. Like a said too much spring for only 6800 rpm.

Has anyone tried the Schubeck Radius lifters? I do have a set on order but was curious if anyone has tried them. I hear a lot of sprint car guys run them. They weigh 1/2 of a roller lifter and have no moving parts (Like a flat tappet cam) Cams have a rockwell hardness of 65 and lifters have a 92 hardness. Only diamonds can cut these things. Apparently there are some marine installations that have "hundreds" of hours of trouble free operation...since the lifters are so light you can run much much less spring...ANY input or experiences with Schubeck??
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Old 07-19-2002, 10:05 PM
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I was going to try Schubeck's radius lifters when I originally built my 540's two years ago but I decided against it. However, I hear that since then Schubeck has come out with a cam that is more compatible with the radius lifters which is supposed to work out much better---before that he had problems. HOWEVER, I am about to try Schubeck's rocker arms that utilizes the same material as found on his radius lifters. These have NO roller bearings, they spray oil over the springs, are 17 grams lighter over the spring where it counts, are much less bulky, and do NOT have a roller tip but rather have a radiused tip with the special material. These are special made with 1/2" rocker arm studs vs. the standard 7/16" studs that usually are produced. We just went to install them and one of the trunions of the rocker arms would not fit on one of the studs. We mic'd it and found it was undersized by about .019" Also, we found that one of the 1/2" studs was slightly larger at the bottom of the thread line---therefore a rocker arm trunion would not completely seat on the stud all the way. Joe Shcubeck told me to send them back, but we just machined them and correct them ourselves. I'm a little MIFFED at Joe right now---wants top dollar for his stuff but can't seem to get his qualifty control correct---especially when making rocker arms for the 1/2" studs. He has made several of the 7/16" rocker arms but this is his first batch of rocker arms being used for the 1/2" studs. So one undersized rocker arm trunion and one oversized rocker arm stud. I called Joe Schubeck about the problem and he was willing to help, but I can't believe his quality control department missed this! He's going to be getting another phone call from me!

OH BTW, I also ordered 2 of his fuel pump push rods with the special material on the ends. They were OVERSIZED by over .003 and would not fit in the fuel pump push rod boss in my block. We took a new Crane fuel pump rod and it went right in NO PROMBEMO!

I JUST found out about these problems as we were assembling my engines 2 days ago!

I guess we'll see how these new rocker arms of Schubeck's hold out on my engines---at this point I am wondering if I should even try!
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Old 07-19-2002, 10:09 PM
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I think Mr. Gadgets is has got Schubeck's lifters in his engine. He's been running for about a week now---perhaps he can chime in here and give us a report!
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Old 07-21-2002, 10:26 AM
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to the top----Mr.Gadgets....are you there?
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Old 07-21-2002, 11:51 AM
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ANY OF YOU GUYS TRIED THE JESEL INDURANCE LIFTERS???VERY NICE PIECE..THEYRE A PRETTY PENNY BUT WORTH IT I THINK...A REAL GOOD ROLLER LIFTER BUT MUCH LESS MONEY IS THE ISKY ENDURANCE LIFTER ALSO..
 
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Old 07-21-2002, 12:44 PM
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The Jesel stuff is great, but the main thing is with any motor running this much cam is to change the lifters on a regular basis. Depending on how you run probably every 40 to 50 hours.
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Old 07-21-2002, 01:29 PM
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I recently read an article on Schubecks lifters and looked at their web page and was very impressed with the technology. I'm glad to hear someone is using/trying their products. I can't wait to hear the results. How much are the lifters and do you need his cam with a different profile to use them?
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Old 07-21-2002, 01:57 PM
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Incognito;

I have a buddy who is a serious drag racer that ran a set of the Jesel lifters, they run about 2200.00 are made of titanium, but don't last him any longer the the comp or crower pieces. Here is the inherent problem with roller lifters...they ALL run the same needle bearings..there literally is ONE company that supplies all the manufacturers of lifters needle bearings. I've heard from many racers, builders, etc that sell and use them all that the Crowers are the best on the market.

Cobra;

He will only sell a package deal now..Cam and lifters, due to problems in the past with varying hardness on cams. The lifters were wearing out the cams. Cost for package is 1325.00. Joe Schubeck told me the cam lobes will look very different than a normal roller cam but the "profiles" will be identical (opening speed, etc) I will have a great comparison because I went with the same cam I had in my boat with the exception of .740 lift instead of .785. I plan on putting the motor back on the Dyno to see if Joe's claims of not sacrificing any power are true. I really don't care if I loose 30hp as long as the lifters will live. I'm going to an Erson double spring that is 280# on the seat and 700# opening. Joe claims I only need 200# on the seat and 500# opening for 7,000rpm...I figure I'll stay on the safe side as sag sets in etc. If anyone decides to try these lifters there is about a 3 week wait mainly due to the cam having to be ground, heat treated, and nitrated.
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Old 07-21-2002, 10:43 PM
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Jdnca1,
Cool. You try Schubeck's trick cam and radius lifters and I'll try out his rocker arms----let's keep in contact with each other on this. I am very interested in knowing how yours set up turns out as I'm sure you'll be with mine. I think Joe has great ideas and concepts but is without the proof to back up his products. Let me know how things go on the dyno. I'll have mine running in the boat within about a week or so.

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Old 07-21-2002, 11:38 PM
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Do these wild cams actually make any more horsepower at 6000-6500? Or do they just break parts and put you on the trailer for much of our 8 week season.!!!
JB
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