Outboard help??
 

Hey guys,

Have a 1999 Mercury 200 EFI, was wondering if someone good with outboards ( no mechanical knowledge of outboards whatsoever) could message me in regards to the engine, we ran our 21' husteler with our 99 merc 200efi saltwater and it took forever to plane out and could only hit a best of 53mph at 5000rpm with a 21 pitch laser. opinions?

I would also try Scream and Fly. More OB guys there.

It sounds like your over propped- that engine should be turning 6000 rpm IMHO.

Wannabe

Agrred, like I said i know nothing about outboards but it seemed to me we were missing a cylinder but the overprop could be a correct, only other prop we have at the moment is a 24p lol.

How heavy is the boat? I would have the motor checked out. It may be down a hole (coil, plug, wire, injector, etc). Don't keep running it!

21 foot boat with 200hp and 53mph sounds about right. WOT range shows 5000-5750 rpms so you are on the lower end of that. Dropping to a 19" prop will gain you about 400rpms and put you in the middle and should help it plane out faster.
http://www.mercury-marine.eu/mercury...ke%20200%20EFI

I was going to suggest dropping down to a 14x19P prop and check results from that prop but Griff's answer covers everything

Speaking as one who owns a similar sized hull with a similar sized motor, I'd say he's definitely down on power. My 22' Progression with a mildly modified 200 Merc (240 HP at the powerhead) runs 76.9 MPH on GPS at 6,400 RPMs with a 27" pitch 3 blade prop.

The first thing I'd check is the plug wires. I've had them come loose on my boat and the Service boat at the marina runs a 200 Merc and they come loose all the time. I'd also pull the plugs to have a look at them and maybe even run a compression check.

is that the hustler from naples???

lightspeed yes it is,i checked compression 120-125 on all 6. ran her again today after fuel system work. New fuel lines,fuel filter,fuel/water seperator, and she ran better, planed out a little faster and she ran 5400-5600 most of the time. but still only saw 53 mph :/

Greg, set back and motor height play a huge part in how well a small outboard V bottom runs. You should be seeing speeds in the low to mid 60's with a 21' v bottom and a 200hp. You should be running about 10-12" of setback and use a manual or hyd. Jack plate to adjust your motor height. You should also have low water pickups so you will retain water pressure as you jack up the motor. The Merc Trophy Plus 24 or 26 will run well on that boat/motor combo.

Your the man, if you ever have some spare time stop on by, I could use a quick outboard lesson lol

How do you gain 400-600rpms and no mph???? unless its trimmed too high.

,,

I'd say your almost certainly down a cylinder. Start with the simple things. Change plugs, take note of each plug as you remove it, if one comes out blacker or wetter than the rest then the pot that plug came from is the one not firing. If new plugs don't change anything try a new plug lead on the suspect cylinder then coil pack. If none of this works you could have a broken wire to the coil pack. Also check all connections for corrosion.i doubt you have a fuel problem, it sounds like one dead cylinder.
Not very familiar with the hull but even a heavyish 21' performance v should pull into mid 60's +.
Don't bother messing with props till your sure the motor is running properly. At a guess I'd say you could even go up a pitch or 2 with what you got. As mentioned the trophy's are a good all rounder, also a rev4, laserII or fury are good choices for your setup.
If the boats heavy a big setback will help the boat sit up and boogy however if you boat in rough conditions it will handle like sh!t.
Play with engine heights but remember high is only good until the boat looses its ability to carry its nose high under trim and un wet the bottom of the boat.
Just one more thing with the motor you have. They came with oil injection, if its still running it (you'll have a 10L caddy in the boat to put your 2 stroke oil into) I'd disconnect it (per mix the oil with fuel instead). Those oil injection systems on those motors had a tendency to strip the oil pump drive gear, the only warning of it happening is the motor locking up!

Kurt, thank you very much! The oil reservoir was disconnected and we are just running mixed gas/oil! Also I did check plugs and they looked pretty decent as far as I can tell, today after work I will be replacing them with new plugs! So you guys think I should be looking for a 14x19"? After figuring whether she's firing on all 6?

Check TPI setting. Throttle position indicator.

Gregg call me, still have all my notes from by boat, same bottom. Started with a 200 too. Was running low 70s

johnny could you pm me your number brotha?

Greg,

Johnny can steer you straight and I agree with his numbers. You're down on power. He and his father used to work on my boat for the previous owner and he's got tons of seat time in similar hulls with similar power. I'd suggest that a stock (and decent running 200) on your hull should be easily in the upper 60's.

Just replied to your PM too.

Tom

Thanks Tom! Now theres pressure :D
PM Sent Gregg

Start with this advice. There are so many different style bottoms, setbacks, props, problems, causes, etc on these small outboards.

If you got someone with experience on the same hull, that's about the best you can ask for.

It's amazing what a setback, propshaft height, and prop change can do to speed.

Have fun! ;)

i agree ziemer, have a mercury outboard tech going over the engine on saturday to hopefully give me a starting point, if all is well with the engine ( which its not looking like) we will pinpoint, setback,drive height,and props. measured the setback tonight and from the transom we are 27 inches from the transom to the engine bracket. and the prop shaft is roughly an inch below the pad of the boat while the front of the prop is 4'6" aft of the transom. yes it has a pretty lengthy tubular bracket lol

27 inches of setback!?!?!?!?!?! Were gonna have to change that..in fact....im thinking bolt her right to the transom if its going to be raceboat only. It will still run over 60, but it will handle 10x better

That is the biggest setback I've ever heard of!
I would have said between 6-12" would be the acceptable range?
An adjustable setback could be worth a go to find the sweet spot.
www.fastcompanymarine.com

I agree, even on my 24 I run 24 inches, and that is too much, but did it for the swim platform. They are correct, when I put the bracket on, I lost a few MPH, and the handling went down. Had a 6" jackplate before and was near perfect.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/...lle71/keys.jpg

As others have already said, your engine is way too far back and way too deep. Heck, your hull and motor are in different Zip Codes! Generally speaking, the further you go back, the further you have to go up. I'm only running 6" of set back, but my prop shaft is almost level with the pad bottom. Take Johnny's advice and ditch the bracket.

Ditching the bracket is not really an option, getting a smaller one..........Maybe. I realize the motor seem's too low, but for some reason even with minor trim it loses speed? Just got a four blade, so gonna try and lift it and run the 4 blade to see what happens.

I think he means Greggs boat

:lolhit:Realized that after I posted, but also somewhat true about mine:evilb:

Yea, that's what I meant, but no harm, no foul. With his motor mounted the way it currently is, the gear case is acting more like an anchor.

I'm going to try to get a hold of a good bracket with maybe 6" of setback and move the engine! Still having a merc guy check it out Saturday but we will start by engine positioning, also may take Johnny's advice and bolt it to the transom lol it is just a race boat!

What length shaft, 20" or 25"

Gregg, the perfect amount of setback for your 21' V would be 12". You'll be far enough away from the transom to get clean water flow and have enough leverage to lift the hull free from the drag of the water. Spend the $$$ and get a good hyd. jackplate. I have a brand new manual 14" rapid jack andodized in purple available at my house if you need it. You should be able to spin a 24/26 pitch prop with a 200HP Merc.

12 inches is WAY too much for this application, especially considering he will be racing it.

x2!

I've been...
 

pm'ing greg, trying to help w/o having to debate the issues.

Do we know what the boat looks like? I do not. I didn't realize greg is going to race it. In the new single O/B class???

I built a hot rod JohnRude for a customer yrs back that had a very heavy splash of a 21' Superboat.
As I recall, we ended up w/16" on that boat and it ran really well w/it. Balanced very well. I set it up and tested props on it for the customer.
W/about 300 HP's I was GPSing 78 in that state of tune.
I ran that boat in chop but nothing close to "offshore".

Greg, I'm down in your area all the time and be glad to pop in and put eye balls on it for you if you like.

Im pretty familiar with the hull, and spent a LOT of time with my boat (same bottom) with the same motor. I also know what it will take to make the boat run level in the ocean. Right now the big issue is the lack of a splashwell, which is why it has as much setback as it does. I think what hes going to do is a 6in hydraulic, that way he can go "up" instead of "out" for trailering. It will also help with the bungees, which it will need. Boat has a notch as well. 8 inches on my boat was great for the lake, 10 was flighty in anything more than a chop...couldnt tuck it in enough.
6 will be good for offshore.
Gregg, Gary knows his stuff, dont be afraid to take him up on that offer

I had a look on the hustler website and now have a visual on your boat. Still not sure what the weight is like. The 6 inch plate will be perfect for offshore. Don't let everyone tell you you HAVE to run prop shaft level with plank (it may well work out that is where it's quickest and handles best), I find running slightly deeper better for handling in the big stuff. There's no point having a 80mph boat in the glass water if you can't drive it fast in the rough. I would have said 1" under may have been a good start for overall handling and speed. Also there is no point having little gear case drag by running high if you can't trim the length of the boat out of the water (21' of boat will cause way more drag than the gear case).
I have a 21' revolution (ski race hull built in Australia) with a 300xs. I run a lot of big water and believe it or not I run 4" below plank! The higher I go it doesn't pick up that much speed but the steering gets heavier. I was running a 6" CMC hydraulic jack plate but It wasn't handling the pounding I gave it, and kept bending transom bolts. I recently made a static 10" setback (I only went 10" cause it was the only aluminium c section you can buy 1/2" thick) and used 3/4" bolts through transom and 8x 14mm bolts at engine bracket (2 in each corner). She doesn't budge now, my hull is on the heavy side so I didn't notice a huge difference going from 6-10".

Didn't mean to imply that's where everyone needs to run. Mine's actually 3/4" below the pad and that happens to work out best for my hull / motor and average conditions on Lake Ontario. I had some fellow Progression owners from Long Island tell me the boat won't run for crap without at least 12" of set back. (I have 6" and it works just fine.) And as you've apparently already seen, lots of set back is tough on the plate and the transom. That's not a good combination in a race boat.

BTW, your whole post - as well as Johnny's - are spot on.

Good points by FF and Kurt both.

FF, 10-4. Didn't catch that you had a similar hull. As Kurt says, going fast in glass means nothing in the rough. Also, based on the math Greg was giving me I was guessing it was a notched transom but wasn't sure.
There is a Checkmate dealer down here that is getting 90 out of some of his 22' and up single O/B's w/stock power and he is doing it with 18" + set back. I do understand thought that the farther you move that motor out on a stick, the sooner it (the transom) comes down off the next wave though.

As to motor height, testing is the only thing that will tell you that. On my old Sonic we tested that. We raised the motors 1/2" at a time until the speedo stop climbing and the tach continued, meaning past the optimum and into increases propeller slip.
Doing the same thing w/the current boat. Interestingly, both boats accomplished this w/o nose cones that many are trying to sell.
I got to about 8% on the old boat based on my readings. Greg is claiming 6% as is which is exceptional if accurate.

Carry on.....