The diesels are coming! The diesels are coming!
03-23-2013, 08:51 PM
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The diesels are coming! The diesels are coming!
'tis a good time to be a powerboater, with LOTS of new power choices in the pipeline: Ilmor V-8s & 10s, 525Efi, various LS in alloy and iron, ...
And diesels are getting there: as powerful as garlic ice cream, stronger than an acre of armpits, as heavy as two sofa pillows, last long enough for your 'tween to give you grandchildren, fit in cigar boat bilge and you fill the tank up in June, run every weekend in the Summer, and pour out the bottom half of the tank when hunting season starts.
I thought Dick Brogdon's PP deck was interesting. For even though it is about Aircraft Diesels, the goals and lessons are applicable to Marine diesels, also.
http://bmepinc.com/AEHS%20presentati...%2005%2008.pdf
In the real world of today, the VM Motari (owned 50:50 by GM & Fiat) V-6, 3.0L, 300hp that is about to power Jeep Wrangler and RAM 1500 will be a crate engine shortly: 485#, and two will fit in your hip pocket: 21x27x28". They haven't been maranised yet, but Pat Weismann can do that in a moderately busy afternoon. Gale Banks thinks they are a 600hp engine, easy and it is hard to look at the pics and not wonder why everybody does not build engines like this:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1...diesel_engine/
Where are the V-8 you ask? Here: 'The Flat Vee' http://www.eps.aero/EPS_website/Engi...ms_-_Home.html They will have production by the end of the year: Vermiculite Iron, steel pistons, 24gal/hour and they have dynoed it at 465hp, and still have a few hundred rpm and a few hundred Bar left to go before they find top. And they LIKE marine and want to work with boat-ee peoples. Yeah, it looks weird and is too quiet; So?
Vat are zee Germans doink? Mercury is having a lot of issues with the VW TDI and in fact have them on a sales hold. That said, there is a Russian engineer, Vlad Raikhlin, dba RED Aircraft Engine GmbH in Adenau (ex-GDR) who is licensing & re-manning the AUDI Alloy V-12, and has a) flown it:
http://www.loop.aero/LPA2433/NEW+DIE...ST+FLIGHT.aspx
And they have a marine prototype, 700#, 750hp, 150ft/lbs :
http://articles.maritimepropulsion.c...esel11833.aspx
And if course, right now, by Tuesday morning, you can have an FPT N67, 570hp or Cummins 6.7L, 550hp on your doorstep. Fully warrantied, and just a few pounds heaver than a tricked-out BBC.
Want more horses for less weight? Delta Marine Performance or Innovation have 750horse versions.
How to get the ponies wet? I don't think Mercury handles torque very well, but BPM does, and Arneson, and ZF or Weismann makes a 1350ft-lb outdrive full of good steel gears instead of waffle-cone ink erasers.
'tis a good time to be a non-mechanic-ish boater, indeed.
Bob
And diesels are getting there: as powerful as garlic ice cream, stronger than an acre of armpits, as heavy as two sofa pillows, last long enough for your 'tween to give you grandchildren, fit in cigar boat bilge and you fill the tank up in June, run every weekend in the Summer, and pour out the bottom half of the tank when hunting season starts.
I thought Dick Brogdon's PP deck was interesting. For even though it is about Aircraft Diesels, the goals and lessons are applicable to Marine diesels, also.
http://bmepinc.com/AEHS%20presentati...%2005%2008.pdf
In the real world of today, the VM Motari (owned 50:50 by GM & Fiat) V-6, 3.0L, 300hp that is about to power Jeep Wrangler and RAM 1500 will be a crate engine shortly: 485#, and two will fit in your hip pocket: 21x27x28". They haven't been maranised yet, but Pat Weismann can do that in a moderately busy afternoon. Gale Banks thinks they are a 600hp engine, easy and it is hard to look at the pics and not wonder why everybody does not build engines like this:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1...diesel_engine/
Where are the V-8 you ask? Here: 'The Flat Vee' http://www.eps.aero/EPS_website/Engi...ms_-_Home.html They will have production by the end of the year: Vermiculite Iron, steel pistons, 24gal/hour and they have dynoed it at 465hp, and still have a few hundred rpm and a few hundred Bar left to go before they find top. And they LIKE marine and want to work with boat-ee peoples. Yeah, it looks weird and is too quiet; So?
Vat are zee Germans doink? Mercury is having a lot of issues with the VW TDI and in fact have them on a sales hold. That said, there is a Russian engineer, Vlad Raikhlin, dba RED Aircraft Engine GmbH in Adenau (ex-GDR) who is licensing & re-manning the AUDI Alloy V-12, and has a) flown it:
http://www.loop.aero/LPA2433/NEW+DIE...ST+FLIGHT.aspx
And they have a marine prototype, 700#, 750hp, 150ft/lbs :
http://articles.maritimepropulsion.c...esel11833.aspx
And if course, right now, by Tuesday morning, you can have an FPT N67, 570hp or Cummins 6.7L, 550hp on your doorstep. Fully warrantied, and just a few pounds heaver than a tricked-out BBC.
Want more horses for less weight? Delta Marine Performance or Innovation have 750horse versions.
How to get the ponies wet? I don't think Mercury handles torque very well, but BPM does, and Arneson, and ZF or Weismann makes a 1350ft-lb outdrive full of good steel gears instead of waffle-cone ink erasers.
'tis a good time to be a non-mechanic-ish boater, indeed.
Bob
03-23-2013, 09:46 PM
#2
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That EPS looks interesting. Verrrrry Interesting Bob . . . .
How bout a pair of those in the 'ol Lucas boat to keep the cg down
That RED a03 is pretty sweet to, nice finds
How bout a pair of those in the 'ol Lucas boat to keep the cg down
That RED a03 is pretty sweet to, nice finds
__________________
Throttles- Cleveland Construction 377 Talon
08 OPA Class 1 National Champion
08 Class 1 Geico Triple Crown Champion
08 OPA High Points Champion
10 OPA Class 1 National Champion ( happy now Ed! )
Throttles- Cleveland Construction 377 Talon
08 OPA Class 1 National Champion
08 Class 1 Geico Triple Crown Champion
08 OPA High Points Champion
10 OPA Class 1 National Champion ( happy now Ed! )
Last edited by glassdave; 03-23-2013 at 09:52 PM.
03-23-2013, 10:19 PM
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'tis a good time to be a powerboater, with LOTS of new power choices in the pipeline: Ilmor V-8s & 10s, 525Efi, various LS in alloy and iron, ...
And diesels are getting there: as powerful as garlic ice cream, stronger than an acre of armpits, as heavy as two sofa pillows, last long enough for your 'tween to give you grandchildren, fit in cigar boat bilge and you fill the tank up in June, run every weekend in the Summer, and pour out the bottom half of the tank when hunting season starts.
I thought Dick Brogdon's PP deck was interesting. For even though it is about Aircraft Diesels, the goals and lessons are applicable to Marine diesels, also.
http://bmepinc.com/AEHS%20presentati...%2005%2008.pdf
In the real world of today, the VM Motari (owned 50:50 by GM & Fiat) V-6, 3.0L, 300hp that is about to power Jeep Wrangler and RAM 1500 will be a crate engine shortly: 485#, and two will fit in your hip pocket: 21x27x28". They haven't been maranised yet, but Pat Weismann can do that in a moderately busy afternoon. Gale Banks thinks they are a 600hp engine, easy and it is hard to look at the pics and not wonder why everybody does not build engines like this:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1...diesel_engine/
Where are the V-8 you ask? Here: 'The Flat Vee' http://www.eps.aero/EPS_website/Engi...ms_-_Home.html They will have production by the end of the year: Vermiculite Iron, steel pistons, 24gal/hour and they have dynoed it at 465hp, and still have a few hundred rpm and a few hundred Bar left to go before they find top. And they LIKE marine and want to work with boat-ee peoples. Yeah, it looks weird and is too quiet; So?
Vat are zee Germans doink? Mercury is having a lot of issues with the VW TDI and in fact have them on a sales hold. That said, there is a Russian engineer, Vlad Raikhlin, dba RED Aircraft Engine GmbH in Adenau (ex-GDR) who is licensing & re-manning the AUDI Alloy V-12, and has a) flown it:
http://www.loop.aero/LPA2433/NEW+DIE...ST+FLIGHT.aspx
And they have a marine prototype, 700#, 750hp, 150ft/lbs :
http://articles.maritimepropulsion.c...esel11833.aspx
And if course, right now, by Tuesday morning, you can have an FPT N67, 570hp or Cummins 6.7L, 550hp on your doorstep. Fully warrantied, and just a few pounds heaver than a tricked-out BBC.
Want more horses for less weight? Delta Marine Performance or Innovation have 750horse versions.
How to get the ponies wet? I don't think Mercury handles torque very well, but BPM does, and Arneson, and ZF or Weismann makes a 1350ft-lb outdrive full of good steel gears instead of waffle-cone ink erasers.
'tis a good time to be a non-mechanic-ish boater, indeed.
Bob
And diesels are getting there: as powerful as garlic ice cream, stronger than an acre of armpits, as heavy as two sofa pillows, last long enough for your 'tween to give you grandchildren, fit in cigar boat bilge and you fill the tank up in June, run every weekend in the Summer, and pour out the bottom half of the tank when hunting season starts.
I thought Dick Brogdon's PP deck was interesting. For even though it is about Aircraft Diesels, the goals and lessons are applicable to Marine diesels, also.
http://bmepinc.com/AEHS%20presentati...%2005%2008.pdf
In the real world of today, the VM Motari (owned 50:50 by GM & Fiat) V-6, 3.0L, 300hp that is about to power Jeep Wrangler and RAM 1500 will be a crate engine shortly: 485#, and two will fit in your hip pocket: 21x27x28". They haven't been maranised yet, but Pat Weismann can do that in a moderately busy afternoon. Gale Banks thinks they are a 600hp engine, easy and it is hard to look at the pics and not wonder why everybody does not build engines like this:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1...diesel_engine/
Where are the V-8 you ask? Here: 'The Flat Vee' http://www.eps.aero/EPS_website/Engi...ms_-_Home.html They will have production by the end of the year: Vermiculite Iron, steel pistons, 24gal/hour and they have dynoed it at 465hp, and still have a few hundred rpm and a few hundred Bar left to go before they find top. And they LIKE marine and want to work with boat-ee peoples. Yeah, it looks weird and is too quiet; So?
Vat are zee Germans doink? Mercury is having a lot of issues with the VW TDI and in fact have them on a sales hold. That said, there is a Russian engineer, Vlad Raikhlin, dba RED Aircraft Engine GmbH in Adenau (ex-GDR) who is licensing & re-manning the AUDI Alloy V-12, and has a) flown it:
http://www.loop.aero/LPA2433/NEW+DIE...ST+FLIGHT.aspx
And they have a marine prototype, 700#, 750hp, 150ft/lbs :
http://articles.maritimepropulsion.c...esel11833.aspx
And if course, right now, by Tuesday morning, you can have an FPT N67, 570hp or Cummins 6.7L, 550hp on your doorstep. Fully warrantied, and just a few pounds heaver than a tricked-out BBC.
Want more horses for less weight? Delta Marine Performance or Innovation have 750horse versions.
How to get the ponies wet? I don't think Mercury handles torque very well, but BPM does, and Arneson, and ZF or Weismann makes a 1350ft-lb outdrive full of good steel gears instead of waffle-cone ink erasers.
'tis a good time to be a non-mechanic-ish boater, indeed.
Bob
03-23-2013, 10:25 PM
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Did you notice ... all gears. No rubberbands nowhere, and off- mounted radiator and dry sump? When I talked with them, they kinda casually mentioned that if I wanted a 4500rpm shaft, that was no problem.
Their big hickey is that FAA certified ECM. With marine, there is no issue.
That RED a03 is pretty sweet to, nice finds
I'll send you the designs and test sheets when I get them.
03-24-2013, 02:20 AM
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Delta Marine Performance has had threads started about them on other boating sites with multiple people having multiple issues with them.....they are not someone I would give money to with out laying eyes on the product and watching it operate to full specs....and even then I would probably look somewhere else
03-24-2013, 07:36 AM
#8
Or four, get up in the 2500hp range, a pair of V-16s. Yeah, you can tell I have been listening to Pat.
Did you notice ... all gears. No rubberbands nowhere, and off- mounted radiator and dry sump? When I talked with them, they kinda casually mentioned that if I wanted a 4500rpm shaft, that was no problem.
Their big hickey is that FAA certified ECM. With marine, there is no issue.
As I understand it, they have some unanticipated hold-together problems, but then AUDI stopped development on that Alloy version when the racing rules changed. The AUDI is a lot more complicated than that opposed Flat Vee setup, and both are chinese arithmetic compared to those IVECO/FPT/Cummins 6.7L cast iron engines.
I'll send you the designs and test sheets when I get them.
Did you notice ... all gears. No rubberbands nowhere, and off- mounted radiator and dry sump? When I talked with them, they kinda casually mentioned that if I wanted a 4500rpm shaft, that was no problem.
Their big hickey is that FAA certified ECM. With marine, there is no issue.
As I understand it, they have some unanticipated hold-together problems, but then AUDI stopped development on that Alloy version when the racing rules changed. The AUDI is a lot more complicated than that opposed Flat Vee setup, and both are chinese arithmetic compared to those IVECO/FPT/Cummins 6.7L cast iron engines.
I'll send you the designs and test sheets when I get them.
Yea shoot me test sheets
__________________
Throttles- Cleveland Construction 377 Talon
08 OPA Class 1 National Champion
08 Class 1 Geico Triple Crown Champion
08 OPA High Points Champion
10 OPA Class 1 National Champion ( happy now Ed! )
Throttles- Cleveland Construction 377 Talon
08 OPA Class 1 National Champion
08 Class 1 Geico Triple Crown Champion
08 OPA High Points Champion
10 OPA Class 1 National Champion ( happy now Ed! )
