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OT: Air conditioning question (r-12 system)

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Old 07-28-2002, 01:28 AM
  #11
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Take it to a AC place and have them do it. It will cost you probably about 150 or so bucks but it is worth it for the peace of mind to be able to blame some one else. I have done a number of swaps in Saabs and for them I drain all the R-12 out then take all the seals and replace them and also replace the evaporator and expansion valve. Then I draw my vacume, test for leaks and then suck the oil in and then fill her up. This method has ALWAYS worked for me. I have tried just adding 134a or doing some stuff but not others and you get a mixed bag or results.

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Old 07-28-2002, 02:02 AM
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I wouldn't convert it to 134a. On a old car it just doesn't work that good. It runs a higer head presure and heats the air up more going through your radiator. Step up to the pump and buy some R12 I mean AC in the heat is priceless. If you now some AC guys they have stuff they use in chillers at stores. They use to run on R12 and now they are putting other products on top of R12 and it works fine. Stuff is called Autofrost, Chill-it, or Freeze 12 and yes FRICC/FR-12. You need to find where it's leaking from before you start wasting freon. What we have been doing on some Muscle car restorations is, we are putting Expansion valves in the evaportor and getting rid of the whole POA valve. I have a reclaimer so we suck everything out of any of the junk cars we tow in. I see car lots useing those other products all the time to top off an ac system. When they first changed the law (and the price went up) dirtbags here in Fl. were using PROPANE Good Luck
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Old 07-28-2002, 03:33 AM
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There is a commercial replacement for R-12. It is R-409A. It is not like some of the crap that raises head pressure, etc- the system pressures run about the same as R-12. I know of several people that have been using it for a while- one about 4 years.

Don't even think about Envirosafe from Canada- it is propane!!!!

The R-409A comes in 30 Lb kegs for about $160. E-mail me to remind me or call me sunday night about 9:00 Central

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Old 07-29-2002, 07:26 AM
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Yeah, there REALLY IS a refrigerant called FR-12. It is one of a few drop-in replacements for R-12. I'd expect an A/C tech to have heard of it. I did a conversion from R-12 to FR-12 and it did just fine, required flushing the compressor lube, though.

I've been using DURACOOL the past two years in my R-12 cars. Does NOT require a lube change. Just a full evac followed by a recharge. So far, has worked beautifully on a 1985 Nissan 4x4, a 1992 Aerostar w/rear air, and a 1989 Super Duty Ford diesel.

A true conversion from R-12 to R134a if done properly requires ALL of the o-rings to be replaced with R134a-compatible ones. It can also require a condenser upgrade to a larger unit cause it does not "give" heat away as readily as R12 (the dual cool Aerostar unit, for one, definitely requires a condenser upsize to function effectively). Also, the old lube must be flushed out completely and the filter/drier must be replaced with one compatible with R134a or else you can get the two lube types fighting each other and refuse to lube properly (causing the compressor to seize).

Also, depending on your unit it may have orifice tubes in it (a cheap-o substitution for the old-style expansion valves). If so, I have used some variable-orifice tubes with excellent results in really hot climates. I'm trying real hard to remember the trade names of those tubes (I got the info at work, but am out of town).
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Old 07-29-2002, 10:39 PM
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What the heck is "Duracool"??? and FR12??? Pep boys style kits are illegal up here in Canada but my buddy was in the States and picked up a kit, I had a shop look up the proper wieght in ounces pulled a vac and wieghed in the charge, works phenomenally well. Duracool.........man you guys got some crazy ass **** going on down there, Although I must admit Im a commercial tech not a automotive guy..........Doug
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