It's not just us....
 

Guess the boat community can't really point fingers and call us out on some poker run starts....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t75zFhFn8TU

Those guy are all idiots in my book. The guy at 0:50 is freaking hauling....

That would be one hell of a ride. I feel like it would be real easy to get swamped in that, you see a boat on the right side get a little sideways in 2 wakes that meet and then break. That would get your stomach turning I think

Looks like the end of the shootout at LOTO :) But with less boats !!!!

That`s just Stupid.

You guys don't fish tournaments and are not old enough to realize that was offshore racing with a twist, otherwise you would appreciate this.

Just like many of the "go fast" people here changing props, hopping up engines to gain an advantage real torunanament fisherman did that for years. You would think them stupid or idiots becuase then want to pass the other boats to go get a fish but to a playing card it's ok?

We built in 1978 when I was younger a special 42 Post, the fastest Post ever built at that time. We left the AC out to save weight which allowed for a much smaller gen set as well. The interior was sparse compared to the standard boat and 410hp 6-71's which were the biggest at the time. We then had J&T make us special injectors above the 140mil spec, we used a fresh water mister in the engine intakes to cool the air more because the engine is very hot, etc, etc the engines had to make about 475hp. The point or fun in the shot gun starts was to start in the back and just blow up through the fleet and pass everyone within a short distance - it's great!!!!

Taking a 40' cat or 41' Apache and running in tight little circles on a lake in Nothern NJ makes sense though?

Everyone, including me that likes to go faster or get there first is a NUT, none of it makes sense we risk life, limb, money, other people's life's- don't say you don't, there is always a risk for passengers and other boats. That is what binds us all on this site - we are all unbalanced to some degree! :helmet:

This is a proper start http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy85uam8r3Q there is more cubic Hp, dollars, performance and ego here than any poker run and probably race as well. People spend all kinds of money tweaking bottoms, running surfaces, rudders, struts, engines to gain a knot or two - sounds allot like OSO memebers - I'm not on a soap box but these guys are much like you all just with bigger toys!

Here you go aboard a Fountain at the same tournament http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmmDXoSPS3Q

Walk that Cabo marina and you might be surprised to count quite a few old Bertram 28's among the charter boats. Wasn't it the old 28' moppie that sired some of the original offshore race hulls?

You saw Bertram 31's in that video, the great grandfather of today's "offshore's", the inspiration for Don Arronow's boats.....

Grab the danger with both hands and ride the fock out of it !!! LIKE !

Add that to the other 3,328 reasons I will never fish.

To each their own. That does nothing for me though. I just don't go head over heals for fishing.

You don't have to like fishing but FISHING is what gave you the offshore boats you have today! From the likes of Jim Smith building the fastest fishing boats of his time, Rybovich's running to bimini to catch tuna, then the Merritt's having to build yet a faster, lighter, better turning fish boat - fast foward and you have Bertram, SeaCraft both designed as fishing/utility platforms that used racing to prove their hulls were the best. Not for the desire to get to the fishing grounds first Don Aronow might have never been because maybe the deep-V would be until later and Don would have missed out, he might have raced cars instead??? If his boat was a "Cigarette" what would his car be?

I think people overlook that "offshore racing" was for companies to prove their products, never intended to be a recrational sport like it is today, it evolved like many other things do.

For the jackpot offered up in that tournament, I'd drive like that too. Why do you guys think bass boats are so fast?

Our boats came from fishing boats?...really?....first time Ive ever heard that,...I like the drug smuggling version much better

Did those original Bertrams and Sea Crafts have twin BBCs? The drug smugglers were the first to put twin BBCs in a big vee with a long flat unobstructed deck, low windshield and cockpit/engine hatch treatment courtesy of Don. That "offshore" layout is where our boats came from and is still going strong today.

awesome!

smart thinking because fishing is no fun at all
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...50870845_o.jpg

Are you serious....Look into the real history of Offshore, not the glorified SoFla Drug mules.

http://www.historicraceboats.com/gallery.htm

I'm pretty sure the bottom of "The Cigarette" came off a fish boat, but you would have to ask Brownie....

Very serious. I ask again. Did any of those fish boats have a twin BBC set up? IMO the bottom is only one part of the "Offshore" boat equation as we know it today..

Some of those boats look taller than they are long....

I'm going to weigh in a little on the lighter side... But yes they did, but we don't tend to track with them because they were Chrysler and occasionally ford BB. Obviously we all know they ran their fair share of diesels as well. Also thousands of 318's, 383's, etc. The much loved and respected Aronow 233 (Formula 233) has a hull pulled right from a scaled down big boy fishing rig, which is part of why it rides so well for a tiny thing, and also is a dryer ride than any other 23ft'r and most 30ft'rs.

I'm not saying our new stepped hull rockets are slightly tweaked fishing boats, but I think it's fair to argue that our roots go back to fishing... Flame away :poopoo:

This hull design was the same one that Don Aronow used to win the world Championship in 1969. It was a 32 foot Cary that was later called a Cobra and a Performer.
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Notice in this photo how the offshore racers of old used v drives and inboards with struts and rudders, rather than the sterndrive packages commonly used today.
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The most famous of all offshore racing photos, Don Aronow drivng his World Championship winning boat in 1969. The name on the boat says The Cigarette and everyone thinks it was a Cigarette; but it was in fact a Cary. Shortly after winning the World Championship, Don began his new company and chose for its name the same name as his winning boat ... The Cigarette.
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Thanks HORBA for keeping the History alive....

3 examples in about 30 seconds, pretty sure they're not singles....

Im saying the true template for the modern offshore boat came when the twin BBC and sterndrives appeared. Why? because in 2013 were still pumping out brand new boats with using BBCs and sterndrives and there hasnt been any inboards or rudders seen in decades. And Don Aronow and the drug runners were the ones who solidified that combination.

No Rudders for decades.... Really ??

Not in the classic vee bottom that we seem to be talking about from the pics you posted..And if there is its outnumbered 1000 to 1 by the BBC sterndrive combo. An ASD isnt even a inboard with a rudder in the classic sense.

pullmytrigger,

Just got home and figured there would be some good banter about what I said and I'm glad so we can debate this more. You have your opinions and I respect them, I will guess you are younger than I and that is why you have the opinions you have.

When I was younger these engines http://www.marineengine.com/boat-for...-534-SEAMASTER (please read about them on here) were the hot set-up for 36 Rybo's and 37 Merritts to "race" each other back and forth from the grounds, these are the real big blocks 534 cui way before Chevy had a clue. In fact when offshore racing started there were no BBC's. I will give you the fact that modern offshore powerboats as you know them are long lean twin BBC sterndrive boats and that is what the world views as an "offshore" boat as do I - all I'm saying is again from way above the "great grandfathers" of today's boats & the sport of offshore racing comes from the fishing world.

Next drug smugglers use cigarette style boats - please with all respect do not buy into that Hollywood hype. There were more bertrams, hatteras, silvertons and center consoles used in the drug trade then all the offshore boats ever made added up all together. You might ask how do I know? My family has some history with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum-running as my name on here says Habana Joe was my grandfather hence our clothing businesses were "Habana Joe" and "Habana Co", you can even find refernces to my family with Ernest down at Sloppy Joes.

For the most part the more unprofessional smugglers used "go fast" boats years ago, if you were a boat Capt of a big sportfishermen and fished Chub Cay or many other little islands years ago, you were approached on occassion to turn your back for a couple hours and here's $10k in bag, when you get back to Fl call this number, leave the boat unattended and give us 1 hour. This was a way of life in the 70's & 80's.

Before the advent of technology in engines, there were hulls. Strong hulls, overbuilt in the beginning, but so darned strong, who would argue. I remember the first time my dad's friend brought a 31' Bertram to the lake. I have no idea what the power was, it was fast, and rode so well, nobody spilled a drop. Long time ago. The hulls of today are mostly based on those old hulls, with only steps being the major difference. Some are far lighter, using more advanced composites or just lighter and stronger materials.

There are today, still some fishing hulls that use this tried and true philosophy, and they last a vary long time. When you look at the hulls of today's Cigarettes, and the demised Fountains, you'll see that they are merely tweaks of a 30-40 year old idea. Not many deviate from those old hulls, because they can't beat them.

Without the hull, a twin BBC is nothing other than a fast people beater.

Thank you, that's all I ever said. At no point did I ever claim a "Cigarette style boat" smuggled more drugs than a Bertram or a Silverton. I dont know where you got that from. And the original "Cigarette style boat" hulls were quite possibly lifted from a fish boat. But again, the hull is only part of the equation IMO. Maybe I should say ...Don Aronow and the Drug Smuggler "persona" gave us the "long lean twin BBC sterndrive" template for what we call an "Offshore" boat today. And this is important why? because practically every "offshore" vee bottom ever made as we know it today is some sort of variation of that original template right down to the twin bolsters and aft bench. Thousands upon thousands of boats by upwards of sixty manufactures, still going strong in 2013 with no end in sight.

We're on the same page - nice to banter once in a while, all in fun :)

This thread is beyond hilarious!!! I guess modern technology has no role in today’s boats.... Just hoped up old fishing boats with steps WOW

Is this why I have a strange obsession to put a tuna tower on my boat?

Nobody was talking about the role technology has in today's boats. We were having a great discussion about whether old racers like DA, Jim Wynne, Brownie and the rest of the pioneers, who stuffed the biggest engines they could into proven OFFSHORE hulls, had a bigger influence on today's go fast boats than the square grouper fishermen of later years..... :)

But those offshore fishermen spend a lot more time offshore in wave conditions we only B.S. about being in.

For you doubters out there read this story http://www.americancustomyachts.com/...-edge-2009.pdf that has a man in it like Don Aronow but earlier in the evolution of offshore named Jim Smith whose ideas from fishing went directly into performance boating.

I will recant and say sportfishing and offshore racing feed each other in the early days, technology was swapped shared etc for the good of evolving the boats that were selling. Remember early on there was no market for performance boats other than little lake type boats, offshore was not a sport in the 50's. Read how Dick Bertram, Sam Griffin were in awe as the lost 8 straight what was called a "Bimini Start" or today a shotgun start to a larger boat built by Smith in their 31' Bertram.

So before you fall off your chair laughing, technology was pushed in fishing boats before it was in offshore pleasure boats.

Can some one tell me of a boat construction technology that was first used in an offshore boat before it was used in any other type of boat? I think you will find carbon fiber and a bunch of things like that came from sailboats first, but I could be wrong?

I's consider the sterndrive as probably one of the worst designs for power transmission available.

That is debatable and I never said it was the best, But you cant argue with the numbers.

Thats true, but not exactly correct. They are carbon fiber hulls, but Americas Cup boats use Nomex as the core. You would never think of using Nomex in our hulls - its hygroscopic. It actually absorbs moisture.

A lot of enthusiasts buy former "cup" boats only to have a slower and slower boat after the years. Its no surprise "cup" boats actually get SIGNIFICANTLY heavier year after year since the Nomex absorbs water and moisture. Aircraft control surfaces and trailing edges do the same thing.

Its a good example... but kinda not a good example technically.

From efficiency sense yes but from a practical matter it was one of the best innovations until this generation of high Hp outboard came along for being able to get performance from any larger hull. The ability to trim the boat has had a greater effect on the speeds at which boats can go I bet than any other single product. Until then you could only ever trim the bow of a large boat that had inboards down - you now could raise the bow lifting the boat out of the water and keep the line of thrust parallel to the surface - huge leap forward.

Agreed, but you know my point and that is there is not enough money spent on high performance pleasure boats to drive "lots" of innovations hence they are borrowed from elsewhere.

Look at safety after the crashes at Key West last year (RIP) how much money has been sunk into preventing that in the future, who is researching better canopies or pods - offshore takes technology from other venues and evolves it into whatever it needs it to be, I would still bet very little "new" anything is pioneered in this sport for either high performance pleasure or racing?

ps - here is the larger problem it's 1:00 pm on a great Saturday, I just came home from one son's batting practice, have a double header starting at 4 today and I'm not out on the water!!!! That is really the problem who cares what came first or last - enjoy it while you can! I spent yesterday in the hospital with my father, who failed his stress test with a major blockage and then had to do the stint thing right away - life is short enjoy it now!!!