Poker Run Format - should it be changed?
09-10-2013 | 10:05 AM
#161
Registered
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: shepherdsville ky usa
i guess u could send out the boats i groups or 3 or 4
09-10-2013 | 10:08 AM
#162
Registered
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 10
From: Pompano Beach, Florida
09-10-2013 | 10:41 AM
#163
Registered
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 884
Likes: 1
So once again we established numerous OPINIONS on the accident, and how to improve or change the Poker Run format itself (speed limit etc..) we all know that opinions are just like azzholes and some even smell the same! There are always more than one side to a story and all the details sometimes never emerge. Only a few positive posts have been made on this subject in this thread and they are in regards to prevention of the blowover itself with respect to safety/design features incorporated into the boat somehow. Maybe a discussion on those possible changes or ideas in that direction could put good use to the talented boaters and keyboarders on here and have a positive outcome somehow. Regardless of whos at fault at this point, two more human beings, fellow brother boaters none the less are not with their family or us anymore, why not focus some energy in a productive area? Just my 02.
Last edited by Cobra100+; 09-10-2013 at 10:46 AM.
09-10-2013 | 10:45 AM
#164
VIP Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,314
Likes: 1,556
From: Maryland
No not name calling just a simple observation about your couch, cooler nascar comment. It truly was idiotic. I'm not placing blame on anyone. Sorry to say two people died in a tragic way enjoying the same "sport" I love. Take a look at what you said. How can you see any other type of discussion coming from that comment. You might be right on the blame part but it seems to me some on this forum don't want to accept responsibility for being called out on a stupid move. Blind follower no. Thinker yes. Pissed of because people don't seem to value my life as much as I do. Yes. Just my .02.
09-10-2013 | 10:54 AM
#165
VIP Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 36
From: Oh
Are these boats even insurable. I had a hard time finding any insurance on a boat with over 1000hp a side and over 100mph. I'd guess there is no insurace on a boat with 15 or 17 hundred hp a side.
On preventing the blow over. A wing between the two sponsons could of prevented the blow over, however not with a normal boater. You'd need the wing controlled by a stick and operated by a pilot. The trick is when the bow rises to adjust the wing, to much adjust and you'll stuff it. In aviation it's called the flare. You'd need to counteract the bow rise, but flare it back into the water. A tricky move and a disaster coming is the only time to practice. On flat running an experienced wing operator could probably get a little more speed by flying the boat.
Surface controlls on an airplane are small but produce a signifacant amout of directional change with little change in their position. The wing betwen the sponsons would be plenty big to make huge attitude adjustments. Maybe even couple to a state of the art auto pilot but in a severe blow over I think the human hand would work quicker then servos.
On preventing the blow over. A wing between the two sponsons could of prevented the blow over, however not with a normal boater. You'd need the wing controlled by a stick and operated by a pilot. The trick is when the bow rises to adjust the wing, to much adjust and you'll stuff it. In aviation it's called the flare. You'd need to counteract the bow rise, but flare it back into the water. A tricky move and a disaster coming is the only time to practice. On flat running an experienced wing operator could probably get a little more speed by flying the boat.
Surface controlls on an airplane are small but produce a signifacant amout of directional change with little change in their position. The wing betwen the sponsons would be plenty big to make huge attitude adjustments. Maybe even couple to a state of the art auto pilot but in a severe blow over I think the human hand would work quicker then servos.
09-10-2013 | 11:01 AM
#166
Platinum Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 3
From: Bethel Island, CA
when the crash occured at texoma that put a stop to it instantly there, and if you ever thought there would be another one forget it, they keep a look at whats happening. they see where people have been killed at poker runs across the united states. theres no way another one would happen there no matter who sponsors it. whats sad is theres always the finger pointing,the mechanical failure, etc.the problem is (EGO) we all want to be first just for bragging rites.I think the finger pointing is and should be done, two guys lost there lives that day,no one is going to accept blame, all i know is we are one step closer to lakes getting speed limits, its not one guys fault its all our faults!!!!
09-10-2013 | 11:04 AM
#167
Registered
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 618
Likes: 4
Are these boats even insurable. I had a hard time finding any insurance on a boat with over 1000hp a side and over 100mph. I'd guess there is no insurace on a boat with 15 or 17 hundred hp a side.
On preventing the blow over. A wing between the two sponsons could of prevented the blow over, however not with a normal boater. You'd need the wing controlled by a stick and operated by a pilot. The trick is when the bow rises to adjust the wing, to much adjust and you'll stuff it. In aviation it's called the flare. You'd need to counteract the bow rise, but flare it back into the water. A tricky move and a disaster coming is the only time to practice. On flat running an experienced wing operator could probably get a little more speed by flying the boat.
Surface controlls on an airplane are small but produce a signifacant amout of directional change with little change in their position. The wing betwen the sponsons would be plenty big to make huge attitude adjustments. Maybe even couple to a state of the art auto pilot but in a severe blow over I think the human hand would work quicker then servos.
On preventing the blow over. A wing between the two sponsons could of prevented the blow over, however not with a normal boater. You'd need the wing controlled by a stick and operated by a pilot. The trick is when the bow rises to adjust the wing, to much adjust and you'll stuff it. In aviation it's called the flare. You'd need to counteract the bow rise, but flare it back into the water. A tricky move and a disaster coming is the only time to practice. On flat running an experienced wing operator could probably get a little more speed by flying the boat.
Surface controlls on an airplane are small but produce a signifacant amout of directional change with little change in their position. The wing betwen the sponsons would be plenty big to make huge attitude adjustments. Maybe even couple to a state of the art auto pilot but in a severe blow over I think the human hand would work quicker then servos.
09-10-2013 | 11:14 AM
#168
Charter Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Draper, Utah
The move by Bill was a jackass move regardless of why he did it. I have only met Bill once and he seemed like a smart nice guy. I am sure that even at some level he admits to himself that this was not a safe position to be in. I have done a lot of stupid stuff and eventually I come around to ya that was stupid LOL. Its up to the driver to operate his boat safe under conditions, spectator boats are part of the conditions just like ice on the highway. Bill made a jacka$$ move but in my opinion that does not make him a jacka$$.
As far as preventing blow overs- thats like saying you need to design a car to withstand a head on at freeway speeds. Fact is if you move over into the opposite lane with cars traveling at you then you are going to crash, that is why I don't drive in the opposite lane. Just like if you drive a cat right behind another with a roost, your boat will blow over. this is a simple mistake and mis judgement and in this case tragic. No rules will fix that. If you make it harder to blow over then drivers will push the limit in some other way.
We must improve safety devices so when something goes wrong you have a better chance to survive it. As long as we push the limits things will go wrong. I don't know for sure since I don't have the details of this accident and cause of death but I believe that Helmets, neck restraints, and proper vest (I think these guys had lifeline vest on, which is good) would have saved lives in this case.
I also think there can be more done to clear the course and or create only one controlled area that is wide open and the other areas have pace boats.
MP
As far as preventing blow overs- thats like saying you need to design a car to withstand a head on at freeway speeds. Fact is if you move over into the opposite lane with cars traveling at you then you are going to crash, that is why I don't drive in the opposite lane. Just like if you drive a cat right behind another with a roost, your boat will blow over. this is a simple mistake and mis judgement and in this case tragic. No rules will fix that. If you make it harder to blow over then drivers will push the limit in some other way.
We must improve safety devices so when something goes wrong you have a better chance to survive it. As long as we push the limits things will go wrong. I don't know for sure since I don't have the details of this accident and cause of death but I believe that Helmets, neck restraints, and proper vest (I think these guys had lifeline vest on, which is good) would have saved lives in this case.
I also think there can be more done to clear the course and or create only one controlled area that is wide open and the other areas have pace boats.
MP
09-10-2013 | 11:18 AM
#169
Registered
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 1
From: Peoria, IL & FMB, FL
So once again we established numerous OPINIONS on the accident, and how to improve or change the Poker Run format itself (speed limit etc..) we all know that opinions are just like azzholes and some even smell the same! There are always more than one side to a story and all the details sometimes never emerge. Only a few positive posts have been made on this subject in this thread and they are in regards to prevention of the blowover itself with respect to safety/design features incorporated into the boat somehow. Maybe a discussion on those possible changes or ideas in that direction could put good use to the talented boaters and keyboarders on here and have a positive outcome somehow. Regardless of whos at fault at this point, two more human beings, fellow brother boaters none the less are not with their family or us anymore, why not focus some energy in a productive area? Just my 02.
