I guess the current format is safer for the slower boats but they need to do something to address the fastest of the fastest. We've tried letting them run as fast as they please on courses open to the public but that does not seem to be working out very well. If they were to take out a spectator boat I cannot imagine how bad the fallout would be for the entire sport. At the speeds they were running Saturday anything could have happened.

I brought up this issue (super fast speeds) after the Desert Storm on a different site and half wanted to sensibily talk about it and the other half just wanted everyone else to ignore the situation, well some things you can't ignore, my feelings are in these narrow smaller lakes the only way you're going to control the speeds are with pace boats, now when you're out on the open water (ocean) it's a little different, but to really to keep everyone safe we've got to slow things back down to a reasonable speed, is it really that important to get to the first or second card stop first, JMO.

The bottom line is if there is speed, there is danger. Higher speed equals increased danger. The only rule that mitigates this is and idle only poker run - then no one would participate.

Hmm sounds familiar.

for you newbies click here and notice the dates
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ns-racing.html

I can not believe how much crap i have taken for my views on this and it keeps coming around

We had a safe TOPPS Poker Run the same day in Galveston Bay. No one hurt or injured. No boats damaged. We only had a few 100+ boats with the rest 50-100 mph.

As I see it, as long as there are no speed limits, there will be competition at these events. Boats will get continuously faster proportionate to the $$ of the owner. Wakes have been cited for the last several cat blowovers I've read about and at high speeds on a non regulated course you will have unexpected wakes.

My suggestion is to formally enforce a speed limit for the main poker run and disqualify anyone over the limit. One of the helicopters could carry an "instant on" doppler speed gun and clock boats that look too fast, like cops do us in our cars. And if there is enough interest (read support or $ for it) have a marked off course for speed runs as we do for the Texas Outlaw Challenge. If there is no speed course there is to be no racing. Lets face it, its called racing when boats are neck and neck trying to get somewhere first.

Trust me lawyers and insurance companies are watching .....The clock is ticking ....... the end is near.... you run a poker run NO INSURANCE..You are self insured the Lawyers love that, and most succesfiul guys will not put there money and businesses at risk without insurance

Another big poker run has called it quits this year and more to come

Promotors do not want the exposure or the lawsuits (Just ask me I will tell you I have been there and done that )

A lot of really good points here. I raced Super V Lite, Super V and Super Cat for many years. Had incidents on the race course, got injured and recovered. I run a high speed CAT 3 to 4 days a week over 100 all the time. I was in the front row of Desert Storm a few years back and I believe it was the most dangerous thing I have ever done in boating and 10x more dangerous than anything that I had ever done in a race boat. I took off with the first couple of boats, pulled away with a 5 or 6 boat pack of "leaders" and after about 2 minutes and around the first turn, throttled back, pulled to the side and just let everyone go....I almost got hit 3 or 4 times by guys on both sides of me.

I don't know how you "speed limit" these events. Guy's with the faster boats generally want to run their equipment to their limit, and that's one of the primary reasons that they attend. I also think that the faster boats and faster speeds are a big reason that the better attended Poker Runs get so many attendees. Even if you propose a speed limit, what is the enforcement and what are the consequences?. I am not aware of anyone ever being penalized in a Poker Run for running outside of event guidelines. At desert storm, they tell you that if you have back seat passengers, you can't run over 100 MPH yet every year we see boat after boat with back seat passengers clearly going 100+ and nothing is done about it.

It used to be pretty rare for boats to have the capability of achieving 160+ mph speeds, now we have a large fleet of bigger CATS all across the country that can achieve those speeds, and a lot higher. I am friends/acquaintances with at least 4 Guys that have newer Skaters that can run over 180, basically large drag boats, and NONE of them are interested in racing the boats (appropriately since they are not race boats), they are purpose build "biggest dog" Poker Run boats or LOTO boats. If you told these Guys they could attend your Poker Run but could not run over 120, they simply would not show up in my opinion. My boat does not run 180 but if you told me I could not run over 120 mph I would not show up, I would stay at my local lake and run how I wanted to run.

Can't compare these events to a Motorcycle Poker Run - the participants still have to abide by posted speed limits - no speed limits on the waterways where there events / accidents took place.

I don't have solutions, or even suggested solutions that I believe would work so I am not going to be of much help except to say these event's, which clearly are not anything like real races have absolutely evolved into "racing mentality" as far as the approach,, who is going to get to the "first stop first" is mostly what people talk about before the event. That leads to sustained speeds of 150, 160 and higher and a requirement to go as fast as the lead boat. We have seen that for years at Desert Storm, and other events where the water conditions are conducive to being able to do that.

I am actually amazed that we have not had many, many more incidents than we have had over the years.

It is a terrible loss - reading what everyone has written about these two passionate people sounds like they will be missed and were wonderful people.

One final comment - No one goes to jail for throttling back for a second or two if you are unsure about the results of wide open operation.....as I get older, I think about that more, and I do it more.

Marc what was the big run that called it quits?

3 incidents this year......all caught on video, all fast cats blowing up/over (My Way, DCB Desert Storm and now this one). First two caught a lot of heat, blame it on crossing wakes/cruisers and boats got wrecked but now with a double fatality it is on to the next level. When you had a double fatality at Smoke on the Water it was a step bottom/flip spin which is/was a whole other issue.

FPC caught a lot of flack for its extra safety fee/ safety crew and guys that wanted to run wide open.......I'll admit I argued that the safety crew was a false sense of security since boats on a big poker run could be 20 miles apart.....By the time the call goes out, anyone who got tossed in the water would have already drowned. Jackie made a good point, at least they would have had the crew and would have tried to save lives in the event of an accident.

Great post......thank you!

For those of you that don't know it, Marc (boatme) used to run the Smoke on the Water poker run - until a similar disaster ended the run and dragged he an the other organizers through years of courtroom hell. Sadly, the same is probably going to happen the folks at Lake Cumberland.

As for what needs to be done, Marc's previous post said it pretty well. I made an attempt at saying the same thing in this post:

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...-too-fast.html

Sadly, nobody listened to me either.

Here's the sad truth. There is simply no place to safely run a 150 MPH pleasure boat. Throw in a spectator fleet, and you have a recipe for disaster.