CMI HEADERS 700 BOAT LEAKING NEED lOPTIONS
 

07 model 700 motors headers are leaking OMG new ones are out of sight

Had them fixed once by CMI
back motor rite side leaking again

What would you do or have you done about this problem if anyone can give some advice

:daz: In my opinion, you should replace the CMI's ASAP. It's better to replace them now BEFORE you smoke one or both of your motors, because then you'll be spending a lot more $$$ on motor(s) and you'll STILL need to buy new headers! If you keep repairing them you're just chasing your tail and risking your engines in the process. I know it sucks (!) because I had to deal with the same issue in 2011 with the CMI's on my '03 525EFI's with only 135 fresh water hours on them... I just bit the bullet and replaced them. It made me extremely upset that I had to spend that kind of money on new headers that I NEVER thought I'd have to replace (AND SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO) but smoking one or both of my motors (because of leaky headers) would have been FAR worse!

This place saved my big tube headers. Superior Welding Punta Gorda FL 941 639 2966

Or buy new AFTER MARKET CMI's. Don't buy the Mercury. You will see that After-markets are heavier.
Offshore Performance Specialties Fort Myers FL (239) 489-0884 call Donney he has very good prices.

http://www.cpperformance.com/p-16690...dard-exit.aspx

While I do not have 700,s or CMI's on my boat if I did this is what I would do.

Perfect Storm is 100% correct. I have lost a couple of seasons because of those stupid headers. I replaced them last year with stainless marine headers.

How that company hasn't had a class action lawsuit is beyond me. Without question one of the worst high performance boating products to ever be marketed. I'd replace them with anything other than CMI.

Just curious, did you pressure test the headers and found the leak? or was it something else...

I have the same motors, seeing things like this makes me nervous

Perfect Storm

Did you go back with CMI mercury headers or did you get non mercury CMI headers.

A good friend of mine said CMI headers are fine just dont get the ones mercury has CMI build to there specs.

If you put mercury CMI on did you have any trouble after you installed the mercury CMI new headers?

I talked to Donny yesterday, great guy to talk to about boat parts his dad Don Carter was a big time boat racer back in the day.

Donny said mercury improved there headers in 09 re-did the collector area and its been 4 years and he has not saw any go bad but OMG he wants $5500 a set x 2 $11000.00 I am now saying I cant afford them I just think thats a little high for 2 sets

Listen i have owned this boat going on 4 years and i know how to keep it running for a complete season

during off season
1. pull out all fuel injectors get flowed
2. pressure or water test headers
3. remove all old fuel
3. replace water pumps and change oil in fuel pump assembly replace mechanical fuel pumps if gas is present
4. leak motors down
5. if seaweed is present in intercoolers remove and send to radiator shop or re-install (install better sea strainer just for intercoolers to end this process.
5. new mercury fuel filters and water separators.

This is annual maintenance every year to keep from breaking down in the middle of a season when I do this ever year we are able to make it to 6 or more poker runs a year and play on our lake 95% time trouble free

I have two pair for sale in the classifieds.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o54595-en.html

I will give you 2 pair for $5000.

They do not leak.

Regards.

I would replace ASAP! We had headers go bad in all 3 700's in the donzi and both 600's in the formula. The cost of 5 new engines + 5 sets of headers is a lot more than just 5 sets of headers would have been.

I had the same problem this past summer on my 525EFI's which use the exact same header and it cost me an engine. I believe the CMI/Merc headers were redesigned in 2010+, so those are better, but anything prior to that are much more prone to cracking and they WILL fail again. I'm not sure what year your motors are but if they are prior to 2010, I'd get them off both motors. It sucks to replace non-leaking headers, but sucks worse to redo the heads or replace the block when they fail and they will. The Merc replacements available now are better than they were but are twice the price of similar aftermarket replacements and I still don't trust their spec. I used the CMI Gen-X headers on my rear motor as they are a direct replacement for the 525/600/700 header and they have been fine, albeit only after one season. On the front motor, I had to use standard taller sport tube headers, also from CMI... The other option is Hardin Hurricane Lites, also a direct replacement but I don't have any personal experience with those. Given the exhaust plumbing on Fountains, if you went with Stainless Marine, there's a good change you will need to redo the tails too.. I am currently in the process of buying another Fountain with 600SCi's which uses the same headers and will most likely replace those immediately with Gen-X's.

Anyone with Hardin Hurricane Lites able to comment???

PPower: What headers did you put on the 600's?

That is about average life for CMI Headers. That is a LONG TIME for mercury headers.

I would just buy new ones and forget about them for the next 5-6 years!

Sorry, just re-read, see you said 2007. Replace them all.

[QUOTE=HyFive578;4029940]I had the same problem this past summer on my 525EFI's which use the exact same header and it cost me an engine. I believe the CMI/Merc headers were redesigned in 2010+, so those are better, but anything prior to that are much more prone to cracking and they WILL fail again. I'm not sure what year your motors are but if they are prior to 2010, QUOTE]

Is there any way visually inspect the headers to tell if they are new design or old design?

Thanks,

We had the same issue with the race boat and just bought some GenX headers from CMI and so far they are fine.

[QUOTE=Scagburner;4029969]Yes there is a way to tell. The old style outer tubes ran all the way down to the flange that bolts on to the motor. The Gen-X design does not. They taper in just before the flange. Maybe a half inch or so.

Saga continues... Sucks to keep reading about this stuff guys...

I recommend Stainless Marine or the Thunder n Lightning system by Diamond Performance.

[QUOTE=neva satisfied;4030012]It's true that the Gen-X headers have the "cool collar" design where the outer tubes taper about 1/4" before the flange and it's true that older style headers had the outer tubes run all the way to the flange but just because the headers have the cool collar design doesn't mean they are OK.

The headers that failed on me where "newer design" with the cool collars but were from the vintage (2004) where the grade of stainless was inferior and CMI was not heat treating the headers. From what I've been told, it wasn't until 2010 that the headers that CMI made for Merc as OEM were improved.

You can tell a Gen-x header because it looks nothing like a CMI/Merc OEM header. It has separate distribution tubes that attach to the header with small rubber hoses and there is no bypass hose between the distribution tubes and tails. The Gen-x header is better quality overall than the CMI/Merc header.

Pretty much everyone knows I had some "issues" with CMI's, Merc. and their staff, etc. A few things for everyone with CMI's.
The "cool" collar is just a way to make them easier to fabricate, weld. A weak point, no cooling at the flange and the single layer of tube. (+- 1/4" to 1/2" ) Often racks. The collectors are weak and vibrate and crack.
A few things you can do to help. Drain the headers after "Every" use, but wait for about 20-30 minutes to allow the system to cool. Draining them too quick, (IE; the after market constant drain) will drain the headers as soon as the engines are shut off. Headers will remain hot and may crack. Install a "heavy" duty rubber connection from the tail pipes to the tips, with the wire inserts. This will help stiffen the headers. You want to remove any movement of the headers. Install a connection rod, (like the outdrive tie rods, ) between the port and strbd headers on the top. This will reduce
flapping" just thing if you have your arms out and jump off from a chair, your arms will come down a bit, The headers will do the same. YOu want the headers to "move" with the motors and not independently. Movement = cracks and stress. At the cool collar and the flange, you can weld or install some "grill" like SST parts to help cool the gap. Kinda like air cooled bikes or outboards, or have some one else some "connecting" beads from the flange to the outside tube. Spread the heat. Even wrapping Al foil around will help, to decapitate the heat. I got my set up like this and for several yeas no issues. I had leaky headers, valve issues but luckily I caught the problem in time so valve work was my most costly item. Check for compression and leak down OFTEN. Hope this helps. (until my header design gets to the market. :) )

[QUOTE=HyFive578;4030038] The "rubber" hose system is CMI, the solid water connection is Merc. The gen "X' headers have "turned down" area at the collector box to avoid back splash. With the square collection box, the lower tubes will allow water to the cylinders. or back wash from waves. Actually this came after I had some serious discussions with the CMI dudes.

Thanks but i already have a used set that are repaired

my builder said i need new ones

Are you talking about the gen-x headers or CMI/Merc headers?

Can't even buy them from Merc anymore... Buying new ones from Teague would be my suggestion. They are still $5400 retail a set! ching ching Gerald!!!!!

I bought a new set of Big Tubes last year so just bend over and take it brother... MG told me being cool aint cheap!

Take a look at these . http://www.diamondperformanceparts.c...cat=280&page=1

Is it just me, or is anyone else tired of the crap prdoucts that Mercury Racing puts out? 1350's,1100's, drive failures, including #6's, for no apparent reason, 525, 600, 700 header issues. The only decent reliable product that they put out was the 496 and 525 (minus the headers), which is why I believe they have discontinued production of these.

How they can cram a motor into an outboard casing and it be more reliable is beyond me. Maybe the fisherman ***** more than we do.

You would think after 50 years, they could get it right.

Although the header was a Mercury spec, I also blame CMI for allowing these to go to production. They had to know the header was inferior. Kinda of like hiring a roofer to plumb my house...

The gen x headers have the collectors boxes with a low lip to help with the back wash. It's like a little dam before the water goes into the tubes. Not sure how the "current" merc headers look like.

look at the stainless marine stuff, it last forever from what ive seen

[QUOTE=Somethin' Sexy;4030116]Is it just me, or is anyone else tired of the crap prdoucts that Mercury Racing puts out? 1350's,1100's, drive failures, including #6's, for no apparent reason, 525, 600, 700 header issues. The only decent reliable product that they put out was the 496 and 525 (minus the headers), which is why I believe they have discontinued production of these.

How they can cram a motor into an outboard casing and it be more reliable is beyond me. Maybe the fisherman ***** more than we do.

You would think after 50 years, they could get it right.

Although the header was a Mercury spec, I also blame CMI for allowing these to go to production. They had to know the header was inferior. Kinda of like hiring a roofer to plumb my house...[/QUOTE]
Long ago, CMI's made good headers. THey were not the "cool" collar and better alloy. The flange and the tube weld was better also. Then the co. was sold. merc. was thinking about buying the co. but instead they changed the specs. Both CMI's and Merc headers are pretty ****ty as far as leaks and problems the specs don't change much. just a legal loop hole that they don't have to warranty after a year. It's called "planned obsolescence" so you buy new stuff or pay for repairs. CMI can blame you or merc for the failure, Merc will blame CMI or silent choice, tips. etc. but neither one have to and they haven't stepped up to the plate to resolve. They will only admit to things after a bunch of drinks, and I have this from the "horses mouth" from both co. CMI is not owned by the original founder of the Co. (when the headers were ok) it's owned by some furniture mega, profit driven a' hole firm.
CMI or any co. will make and sell what ever a buyer wants. IE Merc. ) then they can say it's not "their fault" and of course Merc can say. "we didn't make then" go after CMI. It's all BS, and we get stuck with the costs.

Paradox (or anybody else)...

Any view on the Hardin Marine 525/600/700 headers. Are they better? Worse ?? I was originally steered away from them not because of quality but because of possible fit issues and the timetable I was on at the time. Now, I'm possibly looking at three sets of headers for a new boat I'm looking at and I have plenty of time. Are Hardin's a better option ? Anyone ??

Someone can step in here if I'm incorrect but i think the majority of the issues were on staggered engine setups due to the long tails and how much they flexed.

On a positive note for CMI headers I have as set of Sport Tube CMI's that were bought in 2006 and they are STILL doing just fine!! When I need new headers I will buy CMI again!

Thank you for your 2-cents chad but cool is not my goal.

Reliable and making it to all stops is the plan.

Money is not a problem getting educated and sharing imformation is were I am coming from so I only do this once not two or three times.

Oh! how things going with the your new arrival.

they are about the same price as cmi

Give their construction a thorough review then shop around for the best price . I have been watching and have heard zero complaints on their quality only about price . On the other hand there are numerous horror stories about CMI and not just with the Merc spec header , I have a few myself and have had a belly full of that company . Here is a set of Hardin Hurricane Lites that a member here had for sale a few months ago .

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...s21574f14.jpeg

[QUOTE=HyFive578;4030038]So the 2010 and newer Mercury headers are holding up better? Sorry for the questions but I just starting following the CMI saga..

Thanks,

I purchased CMI "Generation X" Headers from Donny... The price was a little lower than what you're being quoted, but I didn't have the staggered set-up. BELIEVE ME I didn't want to give CMI a DIME of my hard earned money after the PREMATURE failure of my original headers, but unfortunately that was my only quick-fix option at the time. This happened to me in the middle of the Summer, so I didn't want to wait for parts that were on "Back Order" or parts that would involve "Re-fabricating" and/or "Custom Installation". The boating season is very short here and the Buffalo Poker Run was less than a month away... CMI Gen-X was the ONLY option at the time that was a direct replacement and on the shelf and ready to ship immediately. The fact that I could get my boat back in the water very quickly ended up trumping my initial refusal to reward CMI with my business after they (and Mercury Racing) built an inferior product that subsequently failed and cost boaters thousands of dollars in unforeseen expenses. I've had 2 1/2 seasons on the new CMI Gen-X Headers with no problems. Good luck with your decision and know that I feel your pain bro!

Interesting point that you brought that up about a class action lawsuit. I am a criminal defense attorney in New Jersey, but I am an avid performance boat enthusiast. There were members here on OSO that contacted me about a Class Action Lawsuit in regards to the chronic weld failures on the CMI Mercury 525 EFI Package. I had enough responses-plaintiffs to start the lawsuit, but I cannot and will not finance this lawsuit, which I was trying to partner with a law firm who handles class action suits, with me being the lead attorney. We, the law firm and I could not reach an agreement, so the lawsuit never materialized. There are more than enough plaintiffs to commence such a suit, but I cannot finance such an action as a solo practioner.

Second, minor issue, when I was talking about this suit on OSO I was suddenly banned from OSO for a short period of time, which I understood why (CMI is an advertiser as is Mercury, and I am just a long-time platinum member, I don't spend as much on OSO as does Mercury and CMI).

I guess I will stay in the criminal defense realm, I felt bad after having spoke with at least 10-20 OSO members who experienced real world trouble and expense due to header failure(s), and I was unable to go forward and fight for them, it is just too much money for a solo lawyer to commence such an action in the right way and not in a half-ass manner, and if cannot do it to the best of my ability with the proper resources then I should mind my own business. I needed metallurgist(s), design engineers, and other expert as to why the header failed: design defect, manufacturing defect (materials - the stainless used, and or weld techniques), and any other applicable experts and data to help in the Plaintiff's suit

To those who I spoke with my apology, you all had a good case (winnable). Keep in mind that Class Action suits are not my forte.

The class action suit for the CMI header failure is just waiting to happen, someone someday will go forward, I hope I don't get banned again for this very topic.

Stephen "Smarty" Jones, Esquire

PS I have always liked the KE Header