Some of Baja's construction techniques amaze me
 

By how poor they are

This is how my hull and deck are joined. Just toss it on there and sink some wood screws in it? Seriously?

http://traviscrossett.com/hulldeckjoint.jpg

Wirelooms? Nah, duct tape is just fine!

http://traviscrossett.com/ducttapewirelooms.jpg

These were holding the cabin "bulkhead" in place. I put that in quotes because i'm not sure it qualifies as one not being affixed to the hull.

http://traviscrossett.com/bulkheadscrew.jpg

Lord knows what was happening when they bent.

so i take it your starting on those stringers ?

The stringers were the catalyst to tear it down, i'll end up doing a lot more than that though.

my 1989 Baja 226 was built so poorly bayliner was starting to look good. within 1 hour both sides of the cabin bulkhead had fallen down. used the same methods as yours, deck flex sheared those screws in half.

and the king of all poorly built items was the plastic conduit wrap that was used to tighten up the stripped lag bolts holding the motor mounts in.

before I bought it a salesman for another brand called Baja "the bayliner of performance boats" . seems like an understatement now.

What was your headliner made out of? I don't know exactly what well build boats are made of but mine is house paneling.

How about the engine bay bulkhead on a 38 special that is an inch short on each side. Glass tabbing holding it in. Really a 1" gap ??? That was acceptable?

It must have been some kind of fiberglass fabric because taking it down was itchy as ****. It was just glued to the underside of the deck.

whats really scary is that there are people putting big power in these things and running 80 plus!

Does anyone make retractable cleats that don't require a through the hull water drain?

Folding cleats with no drain required.

http://www.fishing-catalog.com/Accon...ing_cleats.htm

My Accon Pop-Ups didn't come with a cup/drain assembly, and I haven't noticed any moisture intrusion, but they are in the stowed position most of the time.

these work great, I put them on my boat too.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/n...rdic-heat.html

Yes, makes them much easier to slide into place when installing. I'm surprise you didn't know this nifty trick, lol!

who needs cleats on a baja, just leave and inch and a half of the sheet metal screws hanging out of the deck to tie your dock lines to.

brilliant!

Thats why some have separated! Its always been a serious concern.

Wait till you get the engine out and look in the the bilge. The weep holes thru the stringers were bare wood.

I just got finished putting my 24 outlaw back together, and that wood strip running along the top of the cuddy didn't have screws sticking out like yours. The deck looked bonded to me, piece of wood was to screw the cuddy trim molds to and for rub rail maybe?

Wow. usually people bash other boats on this site. This is the first time I ever saw anyone bash their own boat.

****ty construction is ****ty construction, i'd wager your 25 is similar. It'll get fixed.

It's not just Baja's

So true.. IMO any production based boat has these same problems.. Any boat made out of wood as the main structure is and will have rot issues sometime during it's life.. Thats just a FACT!!! I've replaced transoms, stringers and bulkheads in Baja, Checkmate, Fourwinns, Searay, Glastron, etc.. To many to remember them all, actually there is a thread on this site from about 10yrs ago where a guy had a completely rotten 38 TG cig from bow to stern!!

Bottom line if there is wood eventually there will be rot!!! All we can do is just keep restoring them and try to use better construction techniques..

The hull / deck joining method (wood screws & rivets) you shared is actually quite common. My 1989 Checkmate was in fact joined exactly the same way. For may folks who either don't boat in rough water or who never really push their boats, the technique actually seems to work quite well. (I did pull the rubber out of my rub rail and thru-bolt / Nylock nut every 12" though.) The problem one runs into in rough water with this construction method is that once things start moving, the movement just gets bigger and bigger. Before you know it, your deck is flapping in the breeze like a cheap flip-flop.

A number of years ago up here, some clown with zero boating experience decided he was going to take a POS Barretta (junk / chopper gun boat) and make it go a hundred miles an hour with a small block and Alpha drive - so he added Nitrous. The first time he pulled the trigger, the thing went out of control (I know, I was shocked too) and struck a pier. The deck - apparently held on with Trident Sugarless Gum, a few wood screws and maybe some Duct Tape - sheared off the hull and landed on the other side of the pier. The guy's major injuries were on the back side of his head - from when the deck went by.

So why don't all boat builders simply glass the hull and deck together like high end manufacturers? Simple - cost. When you build out a complete hull and deck separately and then joint them at the very last step (like Baja and many others), it's far less expensive to install everything because everything is out in the open and easy to get to. When you glass the halves together first - which is really the only way to do it - you have to bring everything into the cabin and install it in fairly confined quarters. This ain't cheap and it's certainly not fun, but unitized construction as it's called, makes a huge difference in how much structural integrity the final boat will have. Think of it this way; a full egg shell has a ton more structural integrity than two egg shell halves screwed together.

Tom

Wonder what that white stuff is seeping out at the hull deck joint?
Duct tape, questionable-maybe, to hold the wiring in place until the panel is put on securing it. Where is it going to go after that?
A bent screw?
Sell your boat now! Before it is to late

Good luck selling it now that he just bashed the $hit out of it on this forum.

I have one and have no problems with it. I haven't taken it apart to see any issues with it. I think you get what you pay for. When I bought mine, its all I could afford.

Actually that is common. My Donzi was the same way.

By the way. I have a very good idea of what the white stuff is or at least what is is supposed to be. May be funny if he was to remove all of those nasty bent stainless steel screws and try to take the deck off.

Been to several boat manufacturers. All well known top names. Even owned a boat or two. And been around the block huh- maybe twice.

Baliners with through hulls. I think they rely pretty heavy on the plexus to glue it all together. I had a 272 for a couple years, was constantly tightening screws.

I want to see that, got a pic of the paneling?

You should have seen the transom on my 1987 Formula 242 LS...it was MUSH. Had it fixed by an "expert" and in 3 years it was MUSH again. How did I find out? The lifting ram fell off opening the engine compartment. So much for "legendary" Formula construction.

mine was laid up with elmers glue and tissue paper and pre rotten wood. I had handfuls of screws rolling around on the floor I never could find where they came from.

5200 lol

Aren't some bulkheads deliberately left clear to prevent stress points?

Didn't even think about snapping a pic when I was working on it. If I ever have to take it down again to re-glue the vinyl back into place I'll make sure I get a pic and post it. Seems to work pretty good though, nice and flexible to follow the curvature of the deck. I was just surprised to see it in a boat.

i think apaches are bonded... with kryptonite multi weave cloth, and titanium resin. lol

Is that why I see mid 80's Apaches listed for $150,000?

Most boats are screwed together. Formula and Baja outlaws are plexus bonded then screwed. You can't separate the hull and deck once it's bonded. Cigarette, apache and other big name boats fiberglass them together.
All older boats will eventually have some rot, there are no exceptions to this.
Not everyone can afford the big name boats but do your research.
I took my 36 outlaw apart last year and had no rot in the stringers, the transom was solid as a rock, and no balsa core rot. I can say I was surprised not to find any but If you hire someone to work on your boat and a screw comes out from below the water line and they don't seal it correctly on reinstallation you will eventually get rot. Poor sealing of screws and bolts will cost you thousands.

I have worked on Formula boats mainly 27 ft and down that had the shoebox lose its seal from Plexus debonding causing big water leaks underneath the rubrails. Some were in small spots making it very hard to catch where in the hell the water leak was coming from. Year models were mostly from 2004 or 2005 to 2007 or 2008 if I remember correctly.

Baja runabouts in the 90's & early 2000's were just very average on the construction and quality side.

The 2007 Baja models, the few that were out especially the rush build jobs to make the winter boatshows had poor fit & finish.

I'm not to sure how the 27' down boats were made as there not really meant for hard offshore use. I do know there was a thread on hear a few months back about a lot of 38 fastechs with there rub rails coming apart, and they weren't that old, but you don't hear to much about the older ones (sometimes It seams like new technology to lighten boats has sacrificed build quality and causes to much flex)) but i'm no pro.
I can say after looking my boat over while apart I was very happy with the construction. all the bonding was secure, the rub rail screws are all tight, and no transom rot. I was also impressed at how big the two main stringers are the run the length of the boat (There like 1 3/4 thick x 18" tall.)And everything was covered in resin.
I've read that the 36 outlaws are also glassed over but didn't verify that, If anyone can that would be helpful.

I've actually been impressed at how well our 2001 252 has been put together. I did have some bad coring in the center section of the floor (unsealed screws from the rear bench seat) but since that seat has to come out for any significant engine maintenance then it is hard to blame the manufacturers construction. Those screws had probably been in and our several times after the initial build and I doubt any sealant was used any of those times.

The long screws that you are holding in your hand I've only seen on access panels or trim pieces, not on structural components.

Yes the wiring is a rat's nest and could have been done better and I'm cleaning that up as I go but nothing ever failed to function on our boat because of the messy wiring. These are (were) production boats built on a schedule and with techniques that lowered the cost to the point that I could afford one. They are not and never claimed to be one off hand assembled boats, but neither did they cost multiple six figures.

I guess I'm saying that I really like our boat and it has provided hundreds of hours of fun with no problems whatsoever. And if it were perfect, then what would I do in the winter?

Dan

deleted - wrong thread.