V hull's past 2014?
 

I ask this question with all due respect to the Fiore family and Outerlimits Powerboats. And If my question is too soon after Mike's passing, please PM me and I will delete.

With the economy taking Fountain out, and Reggie's debacle also taking Baja out. The creditors and/or management impacting/taking out Pantera. Donzi going to the wayside and with the tragic 2014 Shootout events that possibly (I sincerely hope not), effecting Outerlimits future?? Where does the performance 'V' market turn?

MTI, Skater and Mystic seem to be fine in the cat market. Eliminator has some 'V's but seem to push the small/mid sized cats. Cig, Formula and Sunsation are strong in the 'V''s, but who else can make an impact in 2014 and beyond? I know that there several current builders that are building limited number of production boats or boats that are 'half-ass' offshore, but....

I find myself looking back to 2004 - 2007'ish and seeing several different options. I really kinda question today's 'V' market's options and more so, I question 5 years from now. Who's going to blossom tomorrow? Or is all the old, outdated, past glorified 'V's going to double in value?

Chad

Good question. I have to believe that as long as there are powerboat enthusiasts in the world, there will be a market tor v hulls. Not everyone is a cat lover. I am in the process of purchasing my first cat. However my love for Vs remains.

There is still a market 1 cat builder is now going to build v hulls!:boat:

1. Define "Vees" as in does that exclude CC's? Nortech/Cig and Sunsation easily sell more CC's than performance Vee bottoms (probably a 3 or 4 to one ratio).
2. OL has plenty of talent there and Paul Fiore (founder of Hustler) could easily take the reigns.
3. 2004-07 boats were plentiful but at this point it is getting to be very cost effective to redo an older boat with everything new than buy new. Case in point, the 2000 TS TG for sale for 99K (2+ years at that price). If you buy that boat at 85K, repaint/new interior/ new Merc power/drives.....even spending 150K on the redo you are in that boat with a new Myco for 250K and it is the same boat that Cig would sell you today for 200K more.....granted it is 15 years newer but with fresh paint/power I would bet 1-2% of the people at a boat show would know the true age of the boat (dash changed in mid 2000's). You could do this redo with a Formula Fastec, 32 SS Sunsation or any current production boat. Ironically, the toughest boat to do this to would be an OL because of all the updates Mike did to the hulls, most models were redesigned after a few years so there isn't a 15 year old OL that looks anything like a new model.

V-hulls are here to stay, and I think there will be continued evolution as materials and lamination techiques continue to advance. Cats aren't for everyone, I have had v-hulls since 1998, and that was mainly because cat insurance was so expnsive here in FL. but just got a small cat (25') this year, because cat insurance in FL. finally became reasonable again.....

I agree with Jupiter Sunsation ,, Vees are not going anywhere,,there just has been a big shift in the market to CC style performance Vees not to mention the fast cruiser market like the SS Formulas.. The closed deck Vees really only appeal to the "hot-rod' crowd(like me) while the CC and fast cruisers appeal to most everyone else.. A lot of guys because of family and wife pressure will buy one of these to stay with a sporty boat but make the wifey and kids happy ..
Nice part is since the bottom hull is the same whether its a CC or a closed deck is that both will continue to be offered.

Active Thunder produces some really nice V bottoms up to 37' (They have plans for a 41'). Chief has built some nice 41's with steps. Checkmate has some really nice offerings up to 28'. Baja is back building V bottoms. Formula still has their Fastechs....

.....and to bring this full circle....How many of these have been built/sold in recent years? In that above group I would be stunned if there are 20 boats total built in the last 2 years.

41 Chief.... Used one 159k lightly used/redone/8 years old or a new one 700k!

Baja 35 recently featured by Matt T mentioned 200k price point with HO's.......nice boat but a lot of other options out there at the 200k mark too!

Agree with above that redo/updating the rigging and power of recent V hulls is the way to go until some fundamental hull design or material advance makes this option less attractive. There have been great advances in engines over the last 15 years but only tweaks or cosmetic changes to boat hulls with no fundamental material or design changes.

I wanted a CC and reupholstered and updated my 35 Marlago for ridiculously little money.

Don't forget the west coast builders

LaveyCraft builds a 32' & 39' V with 24 degree deadrise

Nordic will build a 47'

Statement is just not C.C's they will build you a speedy and efficient closed cabin Vee.

Many great builders still out there. The Vee bottom is here to stay.

Cats are cool but I like my V for the great lakes pleasure boating. Its going to take a while for people to feel comfortable in spending money on expensive toys, after the downturn in 08 hit overnight. Used boats are going to be hard to find because of the lack of production during that time, so be prepared for plenty of redo's for a while.

I hear ya.

I enjoy watching and seeing the Cats do what they do but I am more than fine never owning one. I enjoy my. Vee hulls.

I hope that there will be somebody to step in at Outerlimits and keep the company moving forward. They build some stunning boats and it would be a shame if they didn't continue to do so.

With Mike's dad Paul there, I think that they will continue to build the brand, IMHO.

Don't forget Rage Powerboats (formally Activator). They build IMO (and if you ride in one probably your opinion too) the best rough water vee's out there. With models ranging from 22' all the way up to 41' I believe. And they are built extremely well.

saberboats.com

24-47 feet

25 yrs in business.

I'll be honest with you.You would never get me in one of those cats ! I hate cats . Ha . If i was racin, and really needed extra speed in a anything goes
. i would run a hydro. But only if my life depended on it. I would way rather run a trip merc pontoon than a cat. But thats just me. I love my hot rod v bottom. That is all.

i see lots of cat deck boats out here in cali. None of them compare to the Statement marine v bottom. That boat just looks like way too much fun! I'm thinking about that as my next boat someday actually. But not today

I got to ride in all their machines....the turbine boat to the C.C. If I am buying today...I am buying a Vee from them. Not cause the cat is a crap ride but cause that Vee is more than fast enough and rides...soooooo nice!

Side note though. That turbine cat at big speeds was really comfortable, like too much to be going that fast,

I am not knocking the cats at alI. I was just curious about the current and future manufactures of V's, whether performance or CC . I do not feel the V's are going anywhere.

In looking at the classifieds, the top # of V's for sale are the following:
Baja 55
Cig 67
Donzi 23
Formula 45
Fountain 93
Nortech 36 (13 are V)
OL 22
Sunsation 20

In just looking at the companies that are currently gone - that's 44% of the listed above. I realize that is a skewed percentage because some of the companies have been gone for a number of years... but 44%? I guess my question is - 5 years from now who's going to be in the top ten of the V market and how many, if any, of those companies carry fountain or Baja production #'s? Or will the pie slices be more equally sized?

I really hope Donzi gets out of the baja group. The Donzi name needs to get back towards the top

Oh yes! Mark Schnepf of RAGE Powerboats has lot of knowledge and building skills. They are up to complete their new 30SVL boat now.

Actually we build his 27 design here in Sweden now, great rough water boats :)

Here overtaking the GEICO cat with ease .... :D
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I agree with you, but right now it looks like Pro-Line is keeping the factory open. As long as they don't re-introduce the GT-190, or J-152, or some of the other "product" from the OMC years, they may end up regaining/re-establishing their name and market share in performance boating. I just don't see it happening without another product line putting food on the worker's tables right now.

There are lots of companies out there ready to build the v of your choice, all the brands you mentioned....what's missing the buyers!

Lack of volume has driven up price
Lack of financing has omitted the middle class new boat buyer
Merc is a damn near monopoly (I'm sorry but it's true)
Recent attempts at introducing a middle class boat have resulted in no sale or a fire sale at a loss


Bottom line is, it's business as usual for $500,000 + boats. I don't think anyone is buying less expensive new cats either.

Maybe our current rides become the muscle cars of the 60s and sky rocket in value? Haha

Only if they are numbers matching with NOS (new old stock, not NO2) parts.... So that eliminates about 90% of the horsepower junkies around here....
You may be on to something though, when dealers are exclusively requesting brokerage/trade-in boats with Merc power, and buyers would rather have a 300hr sealed Merc blue motor over one that has been recently refreshed/rebuilt.

Wish the boats would change back to let's Crush some waves rather then top Speed. Going fast is fun and all but who realy rides WOT anyway?

There is Interest in the 50 foot vee range, They will run in about anything out there, Safe and Comfortable.

I Hope Paul Does take the reigns at OL. He knows Mikes Vision/Dreams more than anyone and OL built one Hellofa Boat :)

Homes on water / Homes near water (largest % of boat owners) are so expensive very few young people own one.

New/newer boats are so expensive, very few young people own one.

That's the way I see it in my little world that revolves around one Lake.

Maybe they should start making pickup trucks that only do 60 mph wot , and get 4 mph again?

Efficient is not all about going fast, cruise at 50 mph at a 1/5 throttle and sip fuel in a light wieght stepped hull. And you can't convince me the old heavy iron has an advantage, no one is racing those old hulls :)

Hustler?