525 EFI Valve Springs, Simple Question
10-16-2014, 11:22 PM
#11
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I have 330 hr stock 525s with flawless performance so far so my ears always perk up when one of these threads gets going. I have a couple of comments and PLEASE find fault with me or correct me if I'm wrong.
1) Why not use the stock replacement springs directly from Merc Racing? What the spring price is about a grand instead of $3-400? Why is that such a big deal if you are getting the known exact replacement with 0 guesswork and I would think whoever the manuf is they might (just might) use an extra stage of quality control on springs resold by Merc Racing even coming off the same assy line.
2) Why change seat pressure, installed height, or any other spec from the Merc Racing recommendation? Its like when I was 17 souping up my 68 Cougar 302 engine. My father used to ask me how me and those speed shop counter jockeys knew so much more than Ford engineers getting paid $250,000 a year. Doesn't Merc build them to last as long as possible?
3) Lets get a true idea of hours on all our virgin 525 top ends. I have 330 original hours. I will start a new thread on this idea.
1) Why not use the stock replacement springs directly from Merc Racing? What the spring price is about a grand instead of $3-400? Why is that such a big deal if you are getting the known exact replacement with 0 guesswork and I would think whoever the manuf is they might (just might) use an extra stage of quality control on springs resold by Merc Racing even coming off the same assy line.
2) Why change seat pressure, installed height, or any other spec from the Merc Racing recommendation? Its like when I was 17 souping up my 68 Cougar 302 engine. My father used to ask me how me and those speed shop counter jockeys knew so much more than Ford engineers getting paid $250,000 a year. Doesn't Merc build them to last as long as possible?
3) Lets get a true idea of hours on all our virgin 525 top ends. I have 330 original hours. I will start a new thread on this idea.
10-16-2014, 11:37 PM
#12
Platinum Member
I have 330 hr stock 525s with flawless performance so far so my ears always perk up when one of these threads gets going. I have a couple of comments and PLEASE find fault with me or correct me if I'm wrong.
1) Why not use the stock replacement springs directly from Merc Racing? What the spring price is about a grand instead of $3-400? Why is that such a big deal if you are getting the known exact replacement with 0 guesswork and I would think whoever the manuf is they might (just might) use an extra stage of quality control on springs resold by Merc Racing even coming off the same assy line.
Because if you go to the time, effort and expense to change the springs, isn't it worth considering a better quality component? As far as assuming Merc's suppliers apply better quality control , that thought kind of went out the window with CMI. The bottom line (pun intended) there is that Merc. Racing dictated to CMI to make an inferior product to reduce cost.
2) Why change seat pressure, installed height, or any other spec from the Merc Racing recommendation? Its like when I was 17 souping up my 68 Cougar 302 engine. My father used to ask me how me and those speed shop counter jockeys knew so much more than Ford engineers getting paid $250,000 a year. Doesn't Merc build them to last as long as possible?
Lasting as long as possible runs counter to Merc's strategy.. they are in the business of selling engines and more engines.. I don't think its a case of anyone being smarter than the Merc engineers; there are a lot of instances of these valve train components failing and this seems to be a common diagnosis of the root cause from some pretty reputable engine guys.
3) Lets get a true idea of hours on all our virgin 525 top ends. I have 330 original hours. I will start a new thread on this idea.
1) Why not use the stock replacement springs directly from Merc Racing? What the spring price is about a grand instead of $3-400? Why is that such a big deal if you are getting the known exact replacement with 0 guesswork and I would think whoever the manuf is they might (just might) use an extra stage of quality control on springs resold by Merc Racing even coming off the same assy line.
Because if you go to the time, effort and expense to change the springs, isn't it worth considering a better quality component? As far as assuming Merc's suppliers apply better quality control , that thought kind of went out the window with CMI. The bottom line (pun intended) there is that Merc. Racing dictated to CMI to make an inferior product to reduce cost.
2) Why change seat pressure, installed height, or any other spec from the Merc Racing recommendation? Its like when I was 17 souping up my 68 Cougar 302 engine. My father used to ask me how me and those speed shop counter jockeys knew so much more than Ford engineers getting paid $250,000 a year. Doesn't Merc build them to last as long as possible?
Lasting as long as possible runs counter to Merc's strategy.. they are in the business of selling engines and more engines.. I don't think its a case of anyone being smarter than the Merc engineers; there are a lot of instances of these valve train components failing and this seems to be a common diagnosis of the root cause from some pretty reputable engine guys.
3) Lets get a true idea of hours on all our virgin 525 top ends. I have 330 original hours. I will start a new thread on this idea.
10-16-2014, 11:49 PM
#13
Banned
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Merc OEM for the kit of 16 that's just valve springs and retainer kit is $1730.22 cents thru retail. Like I said Teague sells the exact same (PAC - MERC) for a third of the price retail and my dealer wholesale price thur Merc is still a lot higher than Teague retail.. So if you have twins that's close to 3500 bucks just for valve springs and retainers ONLY, No labor either. . Now I know why people are getting out of boating.
10-16-2014, 11:53 PM
#14
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10-16-2014, 11:55 PM
#15
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That is correct above ^^^ They have had it for years now. I was face to face with the owner of PAC last year and yes PAC - Merc - Teague they are but he (PAC) would not make any deals for me buying them straight from them.
Last edited by BUP; 10-16-2014 at 11:58 PM.
10-17-2014, 06:13 AM
#16
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And let's face it...Merc doesn't make the springs they just create a specification that vendors bid to. Albeit there are likely quality requirements that Merc may audit to but once the vendor meets a first article inspection, and no field problems of significance to Merc are reported....it's dock-to-stock after that. We design and manufacture flight control systems for Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 among others, and we have a10X multiplier for spare parts.
10-17-2014, 06:33 AM
#17
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Thanks guys. That gives me a few options to look into and people to talk to. If I end up with any doubts I will buy OEM replacements through a dealer like Bam. This is the Mercury part from Bam's web site, $1,427
24-843081A01 SPRING/RETAINER KIT, (16 Per Kit) 5 $1,730.22 $1,427.44
24-843081A01 SPRING/RETAINER KIT, (16 Per Kit) 5 $1,730.22 $1,427.44
10-17-2014, 07:05 AM
#18
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I dont see how the 8005 or 8205 Isky springs, are direct replacements. I mean yes, they fit, but as far as pressures go, they would be a bunch higher, than what guys are stating the stock pac spring setup is.
Using the 8005A, with an installed height of 1.800, will result in 165lbs of seat pressure
Using the 8205 with the same installed height will result in 185lbs of seat pressure.
using the 8205 SP or Plus tool room spring, 195lbs of seat pressure.
That is a world away, from what guys are claiming of stock spring pressures falling in around 110-120 at the seat. Without "up" retainers, man thats close to coil bind with the stock cam lift I'd say, esp if the valve seats never been cut yet.
Using the 8005A, with an installed height of 1.800, will result in 165lbs of seat pressure
Using the 8205 with the same installed height will result in 185lbs of seat pressure.
using the 8205 SP or Plus tool room spring, 195lbs of seat pressure.
That is a world away, from what guys are claiming of stock spring pressures falling in around 110-120 at the seat. Without "up" retainers, man thats close to coil bind with the stock cam lift I'd say, esp if the valve seats never been cut yet.
10-17-2014, 08:11 AM
#20
I don't understand how any roller setup in a big block can conceivably run properly with 110 psi on the seat. I don't know what the over the nose is on the stock springs but having a controlled valve event that light on the seat seems impossible. If I owned one of these motors I would certainly set the valvetrain up with more spring pressure.
