Got #%ucked again
 

To make a really long story short.... I hired a surveyor to look at a boat I was going to purchase . I had a land survey done, than a sea trial two days later that I attended and surveyor was aware that it would be a on sight closing. Sea trial went well. Did not hit top speed was told that it had 3year old gas in it. Boat was listed at 138 hrs from new. The boat is a 1998 35'fountain. Boat is really clean. No reason to think these hrs are out of line. I got to sea trail 200 miles from home to meet a nice older man and woman to own the boat.... Sounds great right..... They light the boat off I notice a little blue smoke...... Was told fogging oil... Whatever..... The surveyor looked at it. The surveyor finally shows up and go for a tide . Boat checks out.... He says it's a good boat..... Don't know why but I felt like I could leave my guard down and not go through this boat myself. It's the first time I every hired a surveyor. Regardless I bring the boat home. I take my wife and four young kids out on it with some fresher fuel topping off the shi t he had in there. But because my kids are young I didn't ring the nuts out of it. We had a great time. I backed it into my driveway and flushed it out. Then checked the oil......... I found a milkshake in the port motor..... Ugh! So I changed the oil and ran it again. Oil still golden after run but milk didn't steam off in the valve covers. At this point I'm thinking reversion but not sure. What's next.... Leak down ..... Best I got was 40% on port side and best was 60% on starboard side. So I guess my question is.... Is the surveyor in any fashion held responsible for not checking the oil after the run?
So here is the other problem, since I had land survey on Thursday and sea trial on sat. The surveyor left his notes at the office. I was told after I had the boat in the driveway of my house that the F-ing hour clock didn't advance..... Are you fuc$ing kidding me....if I had known that I would have never bought the boat.. God I'm sorry for writing this book but there is a lot of crap to say. Does anyone know about recourse with surveyors ?

Accredited and insured

Did he have E&O insurance?

Call him and discuss your concerns. Follow up conversation with email outlining discussion to create paper trail. Did he provide copy of E&O?

You had to recieved a report of all the inspections he did plus a list of the inspections he was going to do beforehand ?. He never even pulled the oil cap nor the dip stick, especially pull the oil cap while the engine(s) are running > Man even people who no nothing about engines do this for family runabout purchases before they slap down cash.

IMO most not all surveyors are a waste of time when it comes to all the mechanical aspects of the boat. How many bring a comp test or a leakdown tester or the current diagnostic equipment like Merc CDS or even Diacom or even a fuel pressure tester ? My point is you need to hire a marine tech as well and pay him for all engine, drive inspections on top of.

Sorry for the troubles and not pointing fingers at you as you hired someone to an indepth job or least thought so. I would look over the list of his inspections that he is supposed to perform and go from there. Good luck

Saltwater boat? Being a 98 it may not matter how many hours are on it, I would suspect bad exhaust manifold/riser from corrosion.

Good luck, that sucks

fresh water boat. But the leak down tells the tail of the bottom end. It's junk. When was the last time a boat lasted 138 hrs before the bottom end took a shi%

I did get a report two days after closing !

IMO......... The only real way to know the condition of a motor is a leak down and maybe oil analysis, but a leak down is a must if you really want to know the condition. Sure, start the motor/motors and drive the boat, but you don't really know if the motors have the power they should have because you never drove this boat with these motors. They could have 30-40% leak and still run and sound fine. If it's going by the valves, most likely you'll never know looking at the motor or listening to it, again because you have heard it before. If it's rings, blow by should be a clue. Too, if it's going by the rings, why are they worn and what else is worn, pistons, bearings? For me blow by is a big red flag. So is baby **** oil.

Call the seller & the inspector let them know they may have to make good repair or refund some of the money!

Is it that easy?

I would have had second thoughts of buying the second I heard it was running on 3 year old fuel. I what point was this brought up and why was it?

The age of the fuel? They said the wife's aging mom got a.l.s. And lived up state. And his mom got cancer or some shi%. So there wasn't any time to go boating. He did say he topped off with 60 gal. Of 93 octane

itll never happen in todays world. sucks but its just how it is... and it really depends how much you paid for it... either way its going to be alot of cash... BUT if you stole it, you cant complain too much. but if you paid retail thinking your getting a perfect boat then thats another story.. good luck!

60 gallons on top of how much old fuel?

Not to start anything but looking for someone to do a job well done should have been done for a pre purchase inspection. To address post # 9 there is so many more tests than a leakdown and compression test to perform that even some are 10 times easier. One is an engine vacuum test, next test, if the engine is efi or mpi the diagnostic testing can be done with the scan tool for injector balance tests and cylinder balance tests and cylinder miss fire tests. Then perform any fuel pressure testing. Also a spark plug reader / viewer and chart, if the person knows how to read spark plugs with the reader, it could be a valid test to perform and could show signs of problems.

If it is a carb engine and has Mercruiser T-Bolt V ignition system, the engine running hours can be checked with diacom to verify the true hours listed by the seller. Next test again engine vacuum test, you can do power balance test using a digital rpm gauge hook up, another test is dynamic compression test and if you have the correct equipment you can even do a cylinder balance test / cylinder drop test on a carb app. Also a running compression test can be perform. Some valve covers are simple to pull off so you check out that area. Also I have a really good inspection camera that can go thru the spark plug hole plus I have seal inline spark checkers as are always in my tool box especially for a pre purchase inspections along with a timing lite.

Anyways just throwing that out because leakdown and compression are not always 100 % tests to say the engine is 100% or not problem free. Also I have never ever seen a engine with 60 % or even 40 % with true leakdown #'s achieve its WOT recommend rpm range under full load nor have good throttle response. Anyways I hope this helps as far as some other testing ideas on top of.

I hate to be the one to say this but the member who mentioned e&o/liability ins gave you this best Insight of all.
Truth is their, the sellers, motors could have been true neglected care low hours and the sellers had no idea of the condition of the powerplants or outdrives, and you paid for a professional to protect yourself from this type of situation.
I'd guess you've already closed the deal and paid in full, plus this is an as is purchase.
You paid for a professional's insight of the vessel's condition and he represented it to be sound and seaworthy.
Fill in the blanks from here. My surveyor brought to light issues that the seller wasn't aware of and his appraisal allowed me a negotiated reduction in the price.
It appears yours didn't.

See.ya,
Kelly

Drew curious was this a recommended surveyor from a board member or a phone book surveyor? Also was a mechanical survey including leak down, compression and any scanning discussed up front or was this assumed? I'm just curious as hopefully next year I will be making a purchase and will be looking for top notch info before I purchase.

As poster #9, I do agree with you that there are a lot of other tests that can be done and tell you a lot more about a motor. You sound knowledgeable and competent.

The point I was trying to make and didn't do a very good job at, was that a leak down test is pretty easy to do, the tester is cheap and anybody can do one, and just that one test will tell you a whole lot about a motor. I also think that a compression test is pretty useless if you do a leak down.

In this case, a leak down most likely would have showed problems with these motors.

Hey Mike whats up?
You back on the boat?

I doubt the survey included any mechanical testing other than running and outside visual inspection,A mechanical is a completely separate survey most of the time and cost about the same if not more as a hull survey,

If Cozzi from on the board here is still working he would be the one to hire . His wife got sick a while back so don't see him here lately

I think the only leg he will have to stand on is the issue with him not informing the buyer that the hour meter is most likely incorrect as it was not functioning.

Agreed Tommy. Just curious as to how it went. Yeah back on the boat floating around in the gulf.

you go tot be there when the test is done to see if all cly are check or do they just put down numbers that look good for the dealer they are all in the same business of making money.They did that to my boat .

He did my survey last year and I couldn't be happier about the job and detail Ed did for me. Cause of him I could not imagine now buying a boat without a survey done......hopefully from him only.

:confused::readinghelp:The damage is done start a law suit asap!Sue both seller&inspector win lose or draw still better then the answers you'll get here!!:bsflag:

And this is why I say surveys are bs. Bring the boat to a marina or have a mechanic look at it. Sorry to here you got duped.

Or do your homework on who you hire and why.

In any business for anything there is lack luster people and then there is the real deal. To put a broad statement out like you just did is very ignorant.

^^ +1. The way I look at it is a survey will tell you how the boat looks. A mechanic will tell you the condition of the motors. It really takes both to make a good educated decision if your are not personally inspecting the boat.

A fellow boater had a servey done before he bought, and all the serveyer did was has have the owner start each engine. He wrote down" both engines sound good, no abnormal noises".

Ok fine hiring a surveyor to look at a perfoance boat is a waste. Less general and ignorant for you? I can show you 4 boats that passed surveys with flying colors that I wouldn't take out on a pond. Never mind how many people have issues like this one, and the numerous customers I have that called me because the surveyor didn't know what he was looking at. Seems more ignorant to me to not conduct the inspection and tests yourself.

Where to start here...man.

So now every single person buying a performance boat now should know how to preform all proper test them self and have all the tools to do so....that is what you are saying pretty much buy how you worded your statement.


There are many people who survey who can complete the job as it should be done. It should be the buyers job to research that guy as well, performance boat or fishing boat.

Again....your comment and especially your follow up comment are very ignorant.

Not even going to bother.... Your such a genius. I'm just ignorant and can't see writing a check based on some one else's word.

If you are competent in understanding mechanicals and hull structure then i see limited need for a surveyor. On the other hand, if you lack those skill sets, have time or travel constraints then I can see where a reputable surveyor would be invaluable. Personally, if I was using a surveyor I would ask for examples of work performed and general knowledge/accreditation.

I am far from a genius or even a smart man.


I am smart enough though to know that when I am buying a expensive toy to do my homework all around. From survey to trailer, to the boat it self.

I would say my survey at $789 was prob one of the cheapest things I had to buy actually.

Let me guess though. Instead of doing a survey I should hire someone like you and take your word though. I get it now...cause we all know the mechanic or repair biz is one never to have had a shady person or someone that isn't as qualified as they say they are.

I don't have endless resources so I will be the first to admit it would be hard for me to take my own advice, but I bet you get very little traction with an attorney, or the surveyor. You might get some sympathy from the buyer.

Beyond that I bet your best bet would be to simply pull the motors, have the bottom ends redone, throw them back in the boat, call it a 10K dollar mistake and get back to enjoying the boat with your family. In the end I bet this is what you have to end up doing anyways.

In regards to recourse against the surveyor, if you signed a contract read the terms. I would also read any fine print in the final report. My guess it relieves them of any liability up to the cost of the survey. I'm not suggesting you couldn't file suit, but may be an uphill battle costing thousand if not tens of thousands of dollars in legal expenses. I feel for you and wish you luck.

Like home inspectors your on your own , it makes you feel all worm & fuzzy then oh oh .

It's probably not what you want to hear in hindsight, but a boat survey AND mechanical inspection is what really needs to be done.
You could go back to the seller and maybe ask to split repairs, but they would not be obligated to do so.
Ethically is another story-------------------but it is what it is.

I've bought 4 boats out of state, so they were purchased sight unseen.
The Surveyor would tell me that they do not do perform mechanical inspections on the engines.
They survey the boat, sea trial, record RPM's & MPH, and "listen" for any abnormality's.
I feel there are a lot of Items not mentioned in the reports when it comes to the condition of the boat, IE dings, scratches, wear, etc.

The one and only boat that I did a mechanical inspection on gave me piece of mind.
It had a Yamaha F250 outboard that was a 2008 and only had 60 hours on it.
Compression test, verified hours, run time at RPM's, checked oil, lower lube, and over all condition.

It boils down down to whether the surveyor has E&O insurance. If you paid a professional fee for his service and he is licensed, he is held to a higher standard. He was aware of the smoking engine and lack of performance. As an industry professional, he should have advised further inspection to protect you, his client. Read the report to see if he made comment to these items and what his insection covers.

Used to survey marine electronics. Never seen recourse with a surveyor beyond the fee.

Those contracts usually have more strings than a box of tampax, but give it a good read.

The minute the guy mentions he knew it had three year old gas, means he's either to dumb to know just running it hard could blow it up, or he didn't care- either way bad.

Hope you are not well and truly F-ed.

Uncle Dave

You want something with a warranty , buy new ...if not , roll the dice and take your chances ! It is a safe assumption that any used boat is gonna have problems . their boats , not a Toyota or Honda !

The buyer surveyed the last boat I sold. Looked at the motor in the driveway with the rest of the boat. Took it to the ramp and after the sea trial I dropped him at the dock and that was it. No post ride inspection at all.