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Old 09-04-2002, 05:17 PM
  #21
Uncle Toys
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Tank:

Lot of conflicting expert opinion. The only thing I know for certain is I didn’t do anything wrong. A point Art Whipple conceded to me twice!
 
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:17 PM
  #22
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We have a naturally aspirated performance calibration with a new K&N style flame arrestor which makes approx. 445hp, then we have a package setup with CMI exhaust, filter, performance cal that makes approx. 470 hp, then we have a new camshaft, cal, CMI and filter that makes 525hp
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The SC'd engine comes with new injectors, the standard performance cals with and without exhaust utilize the stock injectors and stock pressures
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Injectors are open quite a bit, but were increasing the engine efficiency with more spark and easier breathing. It does need additional fuel, but not a large amount. There is no question the 525 motor needs more, the stock injectors with stock fuel pressure cannot supply enough fuel consistenly or reliably.
Dustin,
I am a little confused on the injectors. Does the 525 kit need injectors or not? You said, "there is no question the 525 motor needs more..."

Thanks for the info on the new products. I am putting twin 496HOs in our new boat.

Last edited by ToddW; 09-04-2002 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 09-04-2002, 07:03 PM
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Also - if we buy your recalibrated 555ECU do we have to give up our stock ECU in exhange? I would have no problem being an early test subject if I knew I had the original ECU to use as fall-back. I would be very hesitant to give up my stock ECU.
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:48 PM
  #24
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First off, this is not a pissing contest, but you need a bit more info.

Have you performed a compression check? You must understand that a supercharged motor has far more cylinder pressure than your stock engine. You have 6lbs of boost, richer air fuel mixture with more liquid, as well as a cool air charge because of the intercooler, not to forget to mention the motor is running at 100 degrees vs. 160 which creates denser air in the cylinder. If rings or anything else are somewhat suspect, the increased cylinder pressure will amplify the problem. This is the same as ignition or anything else that could cause problems, the problem is amplified with the increased cylinder pressure of a supercharged engine. So saying it's fine now does not mean it will pass a compression or leak down test with flying colors.

If you changed and checked oil so many times (which I truly believe you did), especially before an engine failure, how was there never a sign of gas if this was the cause of failure?

You stated that you were clearly watching oil pressure on both motors when the motor let go and you saw no signs of anything odd. I don't remember the exact words, but you were pretty confident that you were watching oil pressure. This leads me to believe this happenned in the last 15 minutes below 2,500rpm. this is very hard to understand since you never went full boost if you were at or below 2,500 rpm and oil was checked approx. 2 hours prior.

Too much contraction? I should know this? The motor has less heat variance than stock. The stock motor has a 160 stat and will vary from very cold to 185 degrees, the cold start depends on the water and air temp, without a thermostat and proper water flow, the temp varies less, between very cold to 120 degrees and will be more consistent between 105-120 than the stock thermostated engine. The hypereutectic piston has been around for years, GM utilized in the 96 and up 305, 350 and 454 engines in all the automotive/truck applications, we have never seen problems with these engines and we've supercharged thousands on thousands.

I'm glad you're concerned with our testing, but we've tested on multiple engines on multiple boat hulls on multiple dynos with multiple exhaust on multiple manifolds on multiple fuel systems on multiple intercoolers on multiple intercooler housing. These have all varied different water and ambient temps, different water pressures and manifold pressures, with multiple (8, one per cylinder) wide band, 6 wire air fuel sensors, multiple cylinder pressure transducers with cylinder combustion analysis. We've run them at high and low altitudes with again, the same as above. Also, to let you know, the motors, when there on our dyno during development, they run through a seriess of endurance runs just like Mercury or GM (although we cannot test 50 engines at the same time). We start by running the motors to get some programming completed, once thats' done we do endurance runs, first 30 seconds, then 1 minute, 2.5 minutes, 5 minutes, 7.5 minutes and 10 minutes at WOT. Each application is different and requires different development work.

If the 6.2 is not supercharger worthy, than the Scorpions and 350 mags would not be either as they all have the same pistons. I agree that if you were building from scratch, I would not choose all the stock parts, but the engine is by no means not worthy.

Now it's a different situation, but what about Mike Pyle's engines? You've talked to him at length and know the story, those engines were run with 10-16lbs. of boost with very agressive spark advances and tremendous engine RPM. Those were stock pistons and rings, stock gapping, they were never out of the block. Typically they ran av gas, but we also ran 91 octane which I filled up myself when tuning twice, Elsinore and Fresno.

Thanks,
Dustin
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:51 PM
  #25
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Todd,

The 525 comes with a new fuel system, sorry about the confusion.

As for recals, we recalibrate your factory ECU's, you can purchase new ones but they are a bit on the expensive side.

Thanks,
Dustin
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Old 09-04-2002, 11:35 PM
  #26
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Your first paragraph: Oh Dustin, this very much is a pissing contest. Except, we are both keeping it polite, professional, and factual, which the board always recommends (and I strongly agree). Reputations and a fair amount of money are at stack here, so personally, I’m taking this seriously!

Your second paragraph: Imponderable, therefore irrelevant.

Your third paragraph: I believe I was clearly watching the water pressure, as that is what you and Semper stressed. I don’t remember anyone warning me specifically about oil pressure. The last 15 minutes and 2,500 rpm? Sounds like you might be mixing things together. I’m not sure what you’re referencing.

Your fourth paragraph: As mentioned previously, I don’t have the technical knowledge to go toe-to-toe with you on engines. So I will refer Tyler Crocketts column in the August edition of “Hot Boat,” page 14, “Improving the 496.” I believe he is saying the 496 is not a supercharger candidate because of the pistons.
It would be interesting if we could get Tyler to come on the board and elaborate on his comments.

Your fifth paragraph: Impressive!

Your sixth paragraph: Tyler Crockett.

Your seventh paragraph: Not sure Mike (Cat & Mice) would appreciate being pulled into this. I certainly consider Mike a friend – but I also know you have a strong personal and professional relationship with him.

Maybe it would be helpful to our great and good debate (synonym for pissing contest) if you could keep your answers more on the simple side for me and directed more towards my specific questions - as I will for you.

Also, lets see if we can build on common ground. For example, we do agree on the following: My engine blew up. I am assuming you now agree that I didn’t run it out of oil. When checked by a competent and unbiased professional, fuel was found in the oil of the second engine causing the oil pressure to drop to a dangerous level. Your Dad did call me and offer to buy back the blowers after finding out about the fuel in the oil.

The disagreement lies with the amount of money I want vs. what your Dad offered. The tension you might be picking up to in my posts comes from the way your Dad ended our last conversation i.e. “Sue me.”

Politely, professionally, and factually waiting your response.
Joe
 
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Old 09-05-2002, 01:18 AM
  #27
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<sniff sniff> I am getting a strong smell of urine in here

Anyone else getting it?
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Old 09-05-2002, 02:52 PM
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Dustin,
Thanks for clearing up the injector requirements.
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Old 09-05-2002, 03:20 PM
  #29
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UT, i guess it's fair to say your opinion may have changed a bit since a couple months ago. at least on june 22 you were happy. doesn’t it suck the way boating goes. i was trying piece together what may have cause of your engine failure and came across the following post.


Quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Toys
Well hello from the shores of the beautiful-blue Lake Havasu. Finally got the Internet hooked up and now we are on line at the lake. Damn, eight days without OSO – I had the shakes!

Picked up the boat in Fresno last Saturday and ran it for the first time with the Whipples installed Sunday. Best speed so far is 91mph (hot as hell out here). Went up four sizes on the prop and now it planes like a ski boat and the acceleration is awesome - so is the gas bills.

Murphy **** all over this installation, but Dustin never gave up. What a stand-up guy! Just about everything that could go wrong, did. Yet the Whipples stood up every single time and took care of me. It's really nice to do business with people like this - especially in this industry!

So what’s the board been up to? Anyone else fake their death? Has Nort been behaving?
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Old 09-05-2002, 03:44 PM
  #30
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Well said Dean! I’m not sure yet that my opinion has changed – honest! Stay tuned. July 6th, the day the engine blew up, changed a lot of things. So far I haven’t been able to find the silver lining. But I never give up (note my signature below).
 
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