where did the weight go...here's a list:

1. T/s are all half cabins
2. The hull and deck are thinner especially in the cowling area. I've personally seen 5-6 yr old top guns with severe stress cracks where as our flat bottom has none and it's 20 years old.
3. No enclosed head on t/s
4. Reduction of hull material near transom due to steps (gunnel is not as tall)
5. thinner fiberglass in the cockpit helm and passenger helm. I've seen glass deflect in new guns where as ours can hold a 300 lb guy and it doesn't budge.
6. I'm willing to bet new seats are lighter (Machined aluminum seat posts vs old solid tube)

I'm sure I missed some.

Hahaha!!! I love stirring the pot!!!

moses, what does the title to your boat say? i personally have never seen one over 10,500, that's all i'm saying. you're boat might very well be 12,500 but it didn't come from the factory that way, it probably sank and added a few. you are telling me your tg is 1000 lbs heavier than my neighbors 42 tiger, i don't think so. i'm not so sure about the accusations that a ts cracks, flexes, falls apart etc. was all that accurate either. if that were the case you would have heard about it. cigarette makes a stellar product and always has, if they were weak and falling apart they wouldn't be in business. and yes, i have logged many hours on a ts tg, probably more than most.

No where in my post did I say ts were junk. I wish I owned one. I'm Just going off personal observations. It wasn't just one it was several top guns that had the same cracks. And no where did I say they were falling apart. Please re read my posts.

if you are referring to the cracks around the fairing, then yes, i have seen them but usually on the older boats (straight bottom) it was a common spot to see them and nothing to be worried about. cigarette has flaws just like any other boat on the market but i personally think they execute the job better than most, from 1969-2015.

Starboard side corner of engine hatch, near the back seat.

Justin. Not really fair to compare stress cracks on your hull versus another without knowing how both were used. Your particular boat has been babied. Also known as "driven by a *****" since new ;).

127mph :) 46ft OL 10500lbs dry weight 1075's so steps might help just alittle

and to add
may upgrade heads,whipples and tuning w/ bigger props,,so 130+ here we come.

But how much are the steps adding? No one is saying that steps don't add mph. It is just the percentage being questioned. No idea what the Sutphen weighs with blower motors and 6's, but the Sutphen site lists the new '40 with 525s and Bravos at 9180 lbs. It seems safe to assume the '39 weighs a bit more with the big motors and drives. The boat has run 107 and it isn't staggered, it isn't dry sumped with the better lowers and has less horsepower. How much do all of the pre-listed ingredients also add to the mph? You are talking a 20 mph difference which is a large amount when you are in the 100's, but it isn't all coming from the steps. Certainly the percentage will change on a case by case basis.

Put 200,000 into the sutphen wonder how fast it would be then? Enough weight and steps let's see dollar p/mph

remember buckshot,,removing material from our boats is a bad thing.

I ask Danny to build me the 5 step bottom for my boat.He didn't bite.damn

You need to get back to work SSS !!!!!!!

Id say that Herbs boat is about 800-1000lbs heavier with blower, wet 6's and #6gimbals vs the bravo/525's. but you also have to consider the fact that fiberglass/wood boats do get heavier over time, so herbs boat could weigh in at 11500ish. The difference in a step bottom vs flat is the loading of the boat coming in and out of the water, even in rough,choppy water, is greater in a flat bottom boat vs one with steps. Id say that steps add about 12-18% over non steps. Even the difference between boats that have steps there is a difference. A 46Cig rough Rider w 1075's 3 steps does 116mph and my 46 OL has 5 steps same power and drives does 127mph

change your "My Boats" to 37 OL.as the song goes,,"To much time on my hands" now I have to go police speeds of boats.:faint2:

You need to change yours to "30 Sutphen (for sale), 34 Sutphen Outrageous"

I see this thread has been "hijacked again". I guess I am supposed to say something at this point. So here goes. Since I'm not about to spend another $75-$100,000 on a 92 boat that like most of us I have way too much money into already. This is purely speculation mind you. But........I read on here, I would think, where Reggie said a full stagger depending upon the boat was good for 10-15 mph. If I were to stagger the Sutphen and conservatively let's say I gain 7 mph. Convert my drives to dry sumps, change to swept back lowers, and better props. How about another 7 mph. Increase the horsepower the other 150 to get up to the 1075's maybe that's another 3 mph. If my math is right that's 17 mph. On top of the 107 we have run (never mind the I think it will run 110) that's 124 mph for a 1992, straight bottom resin bucket, as Shaun likes to call our Sutphen's. That's not too bad!

done

For the record my arguments were strictly geared towards comparing stepped top guns to non stepped top guns. Many are tossing out other makes and models...as I said maybe there step technology is more efficient than cigarettes. That wouldn't surprise me...

If i was you all i would do is raise your drives and get new props. Your x dimension was set at a time when props were not that great so the drives are to low. the difference between wet and dry 6's is about 40-50 hp so its realy not worth the cost.

Truthfully I don't think I'm about to do anything else to the boat. I am only speculating here.

My drives are already up to the rub rail. To raise them you would be going into the top of the boat! Yes, I do know the wet sump is only a 40 or 50 hp gain. But that is part of my point. 40 here 50 there. It all adds up.

Dannyboy you crack me up.

Pretend it's your gf my azz. Seriously? That's the pic I sent you of my gf and you know it.

Im enjoying the bantering. Kept me busy for the past 20 min. Carry on