Kevin rigged the both of the above boats with the same power. He had the 600's in the Outerlimits Stilleto, Pulled them out and put them in the Kevlar Layed up Cig. These were his numbers, real proven numbers. The drives on the Outerlimits were Xr's I believe and the Hawk has 3's. So if you want to say 5 MPH for Trans weight and drives, that is the only real difference. Cig92 also is a driver and was just giving his experience based on facts. No reason to lie or fabricate.

My 93' Top Gun had 875HP, 3A drives, Perfect Setup from LIPSHIP and TNT. I had 1.62 ratio drives spinning 17.75x31 4 blade props. I ran around 97-98. Heavy Top Gun.

My TS Playboy has twin 500 EFI which make 570-580 on the DYNO. The boat runs 88-89mph. Uses much less gas. And the 35 playboy has no transom notch like the TS GUN.

I am a believer, the TS is just more efficient. Based on my numbers we are talking 600HP more to run 8MPH faster. That's not economical no matter how you skin it

Why are we comparing a OL to a cig? There is no relevance. The comparison is a cig to a cig. I'd venture a guess that if you had a flat bottom OL with 600's it would run over the 73 mph mark. The 73 mph to 94mph isn't relevant.

I'm not arguing the numbers. Maybe the OL steps are more efficient than cigs.

The 99 F2 straight bottom with no cabin but weighs about the same as a new TS, with a cabin, ran 78.4 with 500EFI's and bravos.

A TS 38 with 500EFI's and bravos runs low 80's.

So, same weight, same power, one has steps, one doesn't and it's maybe 4-5 mph.

Richie Powers who was around Cig when the steps were put on the boat also confirmed this, and said the real speed gains were from shaving weight and X dimension/prop technology.

So this is exactly why I didn't want to go here. I'm not arguing with you or anybody. I just said in my opinion the gains from stepped hulls isn't as much as what is being claimed here. You just surrendered 5 mph bringing the 21 down to 16. I'm no expert so I don't know the difference between the 2 drives/props. Is there another 5 somewhere between the boats. If so that's now 11. Which was my original point. The gains are smaller than claimed when we compare apples to apples. Again, my opinion.

Every 1000lbs is good for 3mph. Most of the 90`s Cig. had 1/2 cabins, I`d agree weight is the biggest factor

Yes Gordon's boat. Sportmaster shorties, and its boxes, as delivered by cigarette when new. It might have a 1" spacer now.

I've only seen one late 90's cig with half cabin. All of the ones in this area have full and all of the ones for sale have full.

Guy I know here has 06 39 gun with staggered 525's, I have a 04 side by side 525's. Same drives on both boats, we both run the same speed, 85 mph

My 525 boat runs 85 on the gps no bullchit. People can claim whatever they want but with everyday gear and fuel in freshwater it will run 85. My recall even shows 88 but I've never been close to that.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]535344[/ATTACH]

That's because once you hit 88, you time travel. You just don't remember it.....