It has a dam for flood control, like many lakes in the Midwest, Beaver, Table rock are similar to LOTO but not as big, I've seen over 200 ft. of water depth in table rock, most days you can see down 15-20 ft, its that clear.

I've boated in some big stuff on Lake Michigan....but for a couple years in college, I lived in an old Coast Guard station right on the shore of Lake Superior. Gordon Lightfoot had it right...the Gales of November are incredible...just amazing.

http://www.bryanhansel.com/grandmara...101027-233.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3WCPXnfYc1...Storm%2B2i.jpg

I boat the Saginaw Bay every weekend and grew up on it. 40 miles long, 25 miles wide with max depth 30-40 feet further to the northeast near the Lake Huron entrance. Most of the lake basin is less than 20 feet deep. Very short distance between sharp waves and wind is always blowing. When wind is from west, depending on strength, can blow 1-3 feet of water OUT. From the east can blow 1-3 foot water IN. Wave heights are random and defiantly occasional "rogue" wave. And occasional "hole." I'm running a 38' Powerquest and frequently get blown off yet. Solid 3-5's as Mild Thunder stated are friggin rough and are only fun for a short time. rarely do we get big "rollers," usually always sharp chop/whitecaps. It is almost eerie when it is calm as glass out there. And that can change in a blink of an eye. If you venture out far, always keep an eye on the sky.

And there's some days even the Apache's stay home :eekdrop:

Uh...ya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8FaotwbMdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8FaotwbMdw

The Gulf isn't exactly the ocean either.....not a fair comparison at all.

Granted this is not huge or anything but this is my buddies 4 Apache coming out of Bunces pass in St. Pete...not exactly "smooth" lake water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCw_SHSwCC4

I was a safety boat at the same race in Buffalo NY. As mentioned Saturday was not bad and some great racing. We slept on board at the Marina and all night the wind and waves kept building. Looked out at the lake Sunday morning and decided that I didn't care what the racers did....I wasn't going out of the harbor.

Padraig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lWeYa0_5bc Pretty neat stuff when you've got time to watch it.

Th

Great video!!!! Thanks for posting

I think if you look, you'll find just off of South Africa (CapeHorn maybe ?) the biggest and narliest waves, mostly because of the short distance between continents and thus squeezing one of the larger ocean currents.

Most massive rogue waves and, of course, ship sinkings.

Used to be a Discovery junky until they stopped being Discovery. Doh !

Very cool video! Check out the bretz floods sometime if you like geological history.

I recall Portugal having some monsters as well. That's where Garrett McNamara was going for a big wave surfing record.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garret...a#World_record

I body-surfed a 60'er at LOTO, but the body-surfing record was 60'3" on Lake Michigan. Missed it by THAT much.

I've been in some big stuff in my days in the Gulf Got caught midway between the Tortugas and fort Myers by a front whipping thru mid April.

Blew 50 for 3 hours before it went down to 35 for the next 3 . When daylight came I was in Awe how Damn big the waves were.

Every bit of 15 to 20, we were 50 miles offshore in 150 feet of water.

Little known fact, Christopher Columbus wanted to take the easy way to America so he picked the ocean instead of the fierce Great Lakes! :D

Well, NOAA isn't always accurate, either. 3-5, 2-4, 4-6, etc. They aren't exact even in their forecast or report. I've been in "6'ers" by NOAA that were just like 8-10 by NOAA and sometimes 10-12 by NOAA on a different day. As far as 80 mph in a 32'er? If you're in 10'ers, you're going to be running an rpm to run 60 mph just to get up the wave. I was shocked at the rpm I was running to just move forward in 8-10's. NOAA said 6'ers, and we were the only boat out from South Haven to St Joe (other than the BIG CG boat that can roll over and not sink). I've been from MI City to Chicago in NOAA 5'ers and boats all over the water (they were nice, well spaced rollers). So, NOAA isn't much better than the buddy you have with the 32' boat after 6 beers. LOL!.

The main problem is, you can run in 3' or more in many boats, but you aren't going to stop and anchor....nothing like your swim platform smacking you in the chin trying to get on and off the boat.

You should change your screen name to Cliff Clavin....

So how does the Bering Sea in January compare to LOTO on 4th of July?

heres how to sum it up: Betty Cook broke the boat on the other side of the lake and got out and took a car back around she said "ive never see anything soo rough" now do your homework if you dont remember her !

Big seas and bad weather are endlessly fascinating, right?

Here's all I have to add to this discussion: At least with the Pacific Ocean, swells most often follow a directional pattern—washing machine water is rare. We have no continental shelf so the ocean depths just a few miles offshore can be several thousand feet deep. So even when the swells are big, and my home is about 20 miles from the famed Mavericks surf spot (and 30 miles to Ocean Beach, the scene of the infamous Donzi video) they tend to roll and be pretty evenly spaced. Of course, when they hit something shallow and break (rule of thumb is waves break when the water depth is half their height) they become a big-time hazard to navigation, and the risk in navigating in areas such Mavericks and Ocean Beach is that the reef or sandbars can go farther out than you think.

That said, I once took out a 27-foot Formula in 10- to 15-foot glassy swells off Ventura, where Powerboat magazine had its offices. We played it conservatively, the boat never left the water and it was a non-event. A few years earlier, Courtney Smith took me for a ride in a 38-foot Baja in three- to four-foot Lake Michigan slop and I thought I was going to die.

I had a similarly unpleasant experience going out Holgate Inlet in New Jersey in a 33-foot Donzi, but those were four- to six-footers with odd cresting eight-footer thrown in, just for fun.

To the point, I think it's tough to say where the roughest water is until you've gone boating in unruly conditions in a lot of different places. For me, however, Lake Michigan has delivered the most consistent beatings, foot for foot in wave height, of anywhere.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ou+ever+ran+in. Glassdave tells it all,,,,love reading post 87

I'll only bore you with one Navy story.

In the summer of 1985 I was stationed on the USS Stark (FFG 31) out of Mayport FL, One weekend Hurricane Gloria forms in the Atlantic and is projected heading our way. The Navy declares a "Recall" which means every sailor assigned to a ship in the port of Mayport must return to their ship.

The Navy figures it is better for their ships to take their chances at sea during a hurricane than to be beaten against the pier (and each other - yes, Navy ships raft off each other just like we do) in 100+ MPH winds. So all of the ships man-up and the order is given to get underway. Every ship capable of making-way steams out of Mayport Harbor single-file in two columns.

Once out of the harbor I was free to leave my duty station in the engine room. I climbed up the ladder and literally wedged myself in the escape vestibule so I wouldn't get tossed around but could see what was unfolding outside through the port hole. About 400 yards off our port side was the USS Biddle, a 550 foot Cruiser. We were in the crest of a wave as the Biddle was in a trough and I literally watched the USS Biddle disappear in a trough - all 550 feet of her - and come shooting out of the other end. I have no idea how tall those waves were but you would not want to be out there that day in anything short of a 400 foot ship, and even then you got the snot beat out of you.


I know the Great Lakes get rough, maybe even rougher than the coastal waters on a normal day. But when the Atlantic and the Pacific really kick up, well the Great Lakes have nothing on them.

The Great Lakes have nothing on them??? Um so thought the captain of the 729 foot Edmund Fitzgerald, till it went down.

October 25 2010 lake Superior
* DURING THE STORM WATCH...PLAN ON THE STRONGEST SUSTAINED WINDS
OF UP TO 51 KNOTS FROM THE SOUTHWEST TO OCCUR AROUND 1 PM EDT
WEDNESDAY. GUSTS OF UP TO 65 KNOTS ARE ALSO POSSIBLE. LOOK
FOR THE LARGEST WAVES OF UP TO 38 FEET TO OCCUR AROUND 2 PM
EDT WEDNESDAY.

I had no idea it was the time of year for the annual " lake VS. Ocean, who is more of a badass" thread.

:poopoo::poopoo:

This is pretty bad !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL2X...ed#t=16.379081

1st - Thank you for your service.

The Great Lakes has had many recorded wave heights in excess of 30'.

The list of (sorta) modern ships which have sunk on the Great Lakes is impressive and includes several freighters exceeding 300', the most famous being the Fitz which was over 700'. She sank so fast there were no distress calls.

Look up the storm of 1913. The Great Lakes lost 19 ships in 4 of the 5 lakes. Some of the ships exceeded 500'. The Charles S Price was a fully loaded 450' ore carrier which capsized and was spotted floating upside down near the mouth of the St.. Clair River.

Google "November Witch". Our version of a hurricane can produce waves up to 50' and while you normally associate rain with storms, November gales can substitute feet of snow. In a few hours.

Ships leave port to ride out a hurricane in deep water. Lake Superior is just over 1300' deep with an avg of around 500' of depth. We don't have deep water.

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest or a "my dad can kick your dads azz" argument .

Everyone knows the Ocean can be rough, but I think what winds most Great Lakes boaters up is the number of people who don't really realize what the Great Lakes are capable of. If you've grown up in MI or one of states bordering the Lakes, when you were a kid that's what the "old timers" talked about when they weren't telling you about walking uphill both ways through the snow in their bare feet to school and how happy they were to do it.

I'm sure the reverse is also true; most of us with no ocean experience think it's just huge swells and we're jealous of those great launch pads with easy entry that makes for those awesome pictures. :)

This is Ford v Chevy, 30-06 v 270, Ginger v Mary Ann and makes for great discussion but to do it properly we should be in a pub somewhere.

Chuck Norris says Lake Michigan is his backyard bird bath!

Inland seas.

Navy stories.......my dad was on the Pacific tour aboard the aircraft carrier USS Coral Sea (CV 43 I think). He said he saw "green water" breaking on top of the flight deck 90' off the waterline, more than once.

Just a little Lake Erie fun last night!!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]557747[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]557748[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]557749[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]557750[/ATTACH]

From Clayfan: I think it was in 2000 that Buffalo hosted a 2 day APBA sanctioned Off Shore race at the Buffalo Outer Harbor on the location of the old Shooters/Pier Resturant and Bar. I worked that event in a safety boat. Thank goodness the posted us at the south entrance to the break wall.
Saturday was Factory 1 and all the P Class boats and some testing of the F-2 and Modified and up classes. Saturday was rough enough to break some boats and bruise some egos but Sunday came and wind was high enough the waves over the Break Wall were incredible. I remember driving across the Peace Bridge at 7am saying to myself "there is no way the Coast Guard is going to allow this race to continue today" and by 10am we had our official answer.
Western Lake Erie can be a ***** when she wants to be.

My brother and I were there for that one too. We came into the harbor in the 35 Formula he had at the time, and it was nuts! The wind was blowing the tops off of the waves, it felt like it was raining sideways. If I recall, the waves were just about breaking over the breakwall! We had to watch for big rollers coming over the stern when slowing down..... Crazy day for sure.

Much hotter chicks at LOTO.

I was one of the Directors of that race. Sunday's race was cancelled with winds over 50mph and waves were over the 10 ft high breakwall. Estimates were 10-13ft waves.
The wind was so fierce that a small plane carrying a banner got to the lake and could not make forward progress but was basically standing still like a helicopter. Over our official radios we had communication with some airflight and we heard the pilot panic as to turning back and getting the banner caught up in the plane. He had to have a more experienced pilot instruct him how to do that to avoid getting tangled in the banner. After which he radioed back that he couldn't see the top of much of the breakwall as it was constantly pounded with waves in short durations.

I thought the Bermuda Triangle would at least compete with the Great Lakes. I was surprised to find the Great Lakes SPANKED the Bermuda Triangle. But, the Triangle has taken several boats much bigger than the Edmund Fitzgerald. So, its up to you to sink a boat yourself to see who the winner really is...

According to Wikipedia:

The Great Lakes:
A collection of five freshwater lakes located in North America, have been sailed upon since at least the 17th century, and thousands of ships have been sunk while traversing them. Many of these ships were never found, so the exact number of shipwrecks in the Lakes is unknown; the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum approximates 6,000 ships and 30,000 lives lost,[1] while historian and mariner Mark Thompson has estimated that the total number of wrecks is likely more than 25,000.[2] In the period between 1816, when the Invincible was lost, to the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald in 1975, the Whitefish Point area alone has claimed at least 240 ships.[2]


The Bermuda Triangle:
More than 1,000 ships and planes have disappeared in the triangle area over the past five centuries.

And all these happened when apparently there were no human errors, equipment failures or even natural disasters. Strangely, the ships and aircraft just vanish when everything seems to be okay. Many believe that Devil is at play here and therefore call the area also as Devil's Triangle.

Grew up in Chicago on the lake, and started boating on the ocean in So Cal - Catalina Newport long beach in 89.

Been back to Chicago many times and have lots of experience on both.

Both will kill you easy- the way they kill you is different.

The Ocean is more predictable on more days- like a fight with an ex- its coming... brewing on the horizon and on you with a predictable timing and onslaught you can can time and work against - for the most part.

The Great Lakes dole out nastiness in an un-timeable un-predictable onslaught of both holes and walls appearing in front of you and water forming everywhere all around you. Like fighting a "flailer" ultimately no matter your timing and skill, something comes at you with zero time to react and really smacks the snot out you.



UD

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFBDn5PiL00

Cool stories. I have a large chart of Lake Huron shipwrecks hanging at the cabin. It's completely covered with shipwrecks. There aren't so many now with modern navigation and stronger ships and communications, radar, weather reports etc.

A 48' sailboat sunk during the Chicago Mackinaw race last week. Rudder shaft broke in storm near the Manitou passage

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread but how about buzzards bay Massachusetts! Shallow bay with the cad cod canal dumping in to it and throw in a southerly wind.. forget about it!! The water stands straight up! some days they're tight together and others they're further apart. I've been out in the bay traveling on a rough day and losing sight of sportfish boat's!