Keeping The Great Lakes Great
03-14-2017, 12:44 PM
#81
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Payton as a farmer why do you feel we are so stuck on corn ethanol in this country? From a chicken or egg first standpoint. Is it because the ethanol producers only want corn as the feedstock, or is because the farmers are only setup to grow corn? Substantial equipment cost for conversion to grow beats, or the plants don't want it that way?
I always ask that question because the studies I posted above have shown for years we could ramp up ethanol production to almost double if moved away from corn. While also cutting the nitrogen requirements substantially. Most of our farming run off ends up in the gulf and not the great lakes, but what does make it into the lakes sure isn't helping the problems up there.
On the BioD side, I applaud you for making it a point to support the industry by running it in everything. No longer producing, I buy it wherever I can and still help local farmers source it in bulk. But a couple years ago I could had you rail cars of B100 dropped anywhere in the US at well under pump diesel cost, just never put together enough buyers to order it. That's what's sad about our biodiesel programs here. Big oil goes out of their way to keep it from the mainstream consumer. Pilot is the only major outlet where you'll find biodiesel blended at most pumps.
My good friend in Virgina who goes by "Fuel Farmer" online was featured on a History channel program some years back. He's probably the largest promoter of double crop farming canola over soybeans in US. Producing two primary biofuel crops per year on same acreage by air seeding the canola before picking the beans. Crushes his own feestocks, produces all his fuel on site, and feeds left overs to his dairy herds. I really felt that strategy would take off up north, but so far not. I do like your idea of sucking the algae out of the lakes to produce fuel, just need a buyer...
I always ask that question because the studies I posted above have shown for years we could ramp up ethanol production to almost double if moved away from corn. While also cutting the nitrogen requirements substantially. Most of our farming run off ends up in the gulf and not the great lakes, but what does make it into the lakes sure isn't helping the problems up there.
On the BioD side, I applaud you for making it a point to support the industry by running it in everything. No longer producing, I buy it wherever I can and still help local farmers source it in bulk. But a couple years ago I could had you rail cars of B100 dropped anywhere in the US at well under pump diesel cost, just never put together enough buyers to order it. That's what's sad about our biodiesel programs here. Big oil goes out of their way to keep it from the mainstream consumer. Pilot is the only major outlet where you'll find biodiesel blended at most pumps.
My good friend in Virgina who goes by "Fuel Farmer" online was featured on a History channel program some years back. He's probably the largest promoter of double crop farming canola over soybeans in US. Producing two primary biofuel crops per year on same acreage by air seeding the canola before picking the beans. Crushes his own feestocks, produces all his fuel on site, and feeds left overs to his dairy herds. I really felt that strategy would take off up north, but so far not. I do like your idea of sucking the algae out of the lakes to produce fuel, just need a buyer...
03-14-2017, 01:12 PM
#82
Charter Member #927
Charter Member
It has been explained to me that ethanol was the best way to get started and the easiest way is with the most plentiful feedstock. Corn. The ratio is up to 2.8 gallons of ethanol for every bushel of corn. A bushel of corn is 56 lbs.. after the ethanol is produced there is 17 lbs of Dried Distillers Grain left (DDGs) That is a very high quality livestock feed. I'm not sure what type of ground is best to grow sugar beats, but I do know they are only grown in a few areas of the country. It's all based on climate and soil type for what a farmers options are. The best soils are the most expensive to buy so a farmer whats the best bang for the buck.
We also don't want to use anymore fertilizer than we have to, that's expensive also. If it is used by a crop, it won't go into the water.
We also don't want to use anymore fertilizer than we have to, that's expensive also. If it is used by a crop, it won't go into the water.
03-14-2017, 07:45 PM
#84
Bottom line, I agree on cutting the research, it's crap. You don't need a study to come down on GE when they were polluting the Hudson, mutant fish and high mercury levels are enough. Guess what...the pollution stopped and the evil EPA forced GE to dredge their sh!t out of the river because people raised their voices. But I guess that's a bad thing right? Better to have Jack Welch line his pockets then to take care of the people who ate fish from the river though. I don't get it, are some of you for polluting our water and air? Are you defending those that do it? Where's the passion behind that? Where's the cry for cutting waste in other areas of the gov't?
Stopping polluters is a political thing, not a research thing. Unfortunately it requires documentation and back up to take these offenders to court to stop them, or are some of you against due process now? So yes it's a seeming waste of money, but some of it's needed to stop this. Take care of your planet, it gives you everything you have.
Stopping polluters is a political thing, not a research thing. Unfortunately it requires documentation and back up to take these offenders to court to stop them, or are some of you against due process now? So yes it's a seeming waste of money, but some of it's needed to stop this. Take care of your planet, it gives you everything you have.
Anywhoo, I dont think anyone here is advocating damaging earth purposely, I also agree if someone purposely pollutes the river they should pay to fix it and I believe they do already in fines by the government. So that does not advocate needing more money then because the business or person or insurance company who pollutes takes care of the bill typically.
I get it your passionate about pollution and hate the military but your philosophy is the more money we spend on it the better it will alway get.
That doesnt work in most things and especially government programs. Liberals believe it is. They believe the more we spend on schools the better they will get. How's that been working for us?
I can tell you as a contractor who works with school districts the more money they get the more they look for ways to spend it on nothing that promotes learning!! OK maybe 15% or that money goes towards learning the rest is towards better Athletic fields, or nicer looking lights or doors I could go on and on and the school boards are blatantly open they are looking for ways to spend money otherwise they loose it.
This is how government programs work. In the beginning the bang for the buck was probably decent now once they get more and more money it doesnt all go towards the right places and it makes the cost curve go higher and higher.
What I'm saying is more money in ALL GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS! Is not the answer to better results!
That includes the cutting of millions of dollars of waste in the great lakes program.
If this country is ever going to get serious on debt, everyone is going to have to realize funding is going to have to get cut across the board and redirect the money left over to get the best bang for the buck just like every successful business in this country has to do every single day.
03-14-2017, 09:14 PM
#85
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I am sure there is waste but the first post said 300 to 10mil.
So we think there is 290 million worth of waste in a 300 million budget? If that is across all government programs we just fixed the budget problem.
So we think there is 290 million worth of waste in a 300 million budget? If that is across all government programs we just fixed the budget problem.
03-15-2017, 06:45 AM
#86
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Don't get me started on schools. Our town has a $80MM school budget, and the townsfolk (mostly Democrats) near rioted at last years budget, I was at the town meeting. It's about power and both parties covet it, but I see our town budget issues as gross incompetence. They admittedly over built a new school in the face of declining enrollment projections, that's not a party line but near criminal behavior with my tax money.
03-15-2017, 11:17 PM
#87
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I hope I don't cut my own head off talking abought what I know, but here we go. I once worked for a environmental remediation company NO NAMES I run off road dump trucks. Paper mills if you noticed always set up shop near rivers back in the day for??? WE KNOW WHY. The day came they could not dump directly into the rivers, this site built big sludge ponds, just a few miles down the road was a mountain of fly ash the bi product of burning coal to generate electricity. The EPA swooped in declared it a super fund site and all Fed control. Georgia Pacific had to pony up for the abortion the EPA was abought to perform. The fly ash and the paper sludge where at least a few thousand yards from the river before it all began. Here come the gravel trains dumping fly ash next to the sludge ponds the fly ash dries up the sludge with the help of a big track hoe, when it got thick enough load it on the off road dump trucks and haul it over there next to the river bank and build a Michigan mountain, that's right a mountain of toxic chit 150yds from the river no bottom liner ?? and the top tarp didn't show up in time they cover it with a liner thinner than a swimming pool liner with dozers running around spreading the dirt over the top shreading the liner all to hell, seen it all with own two eyes. We where told they would build condos a golf course when it was done. many years later run down ratty looking chain link fences with padlocks. The EPA is still yousing ower rivers as a toilet
03-17-2017, 03:01 PM
#88
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